Police Fine system reduction.

[ArnieBIB]

Describe the current reason for this balance request [I've played HighLife for a very long time and I cannot fault this server one bit but there's always room to improve, as a cop and a criminal my self I believe that both cops and criminals so to speak they "fear" one another, I mean as the increase of population in HighLife people are wanting to add there own spin to criminal RP, yet there's one HUGE factor impacting this. The fines. As a cop there is the inbuilt fine system, for example, to give someone a fine who has stolen a car, felony evaded and recklessly drove (GTA, Felony Evading Arrest, Reckless Driving) I have to issue them a fine of $26,000... keep in mind this is just a minor offense, imagine what the fines are like for someone who has attempted or murdered someone, its crazy to think that you're paying $26,000 just for stealing a local car and then running from cops just to have a fun interaction. I feel as if this is excessive and unneeded, for someone who has just joined highlife and they don't have a car however they still want some action from the cops, for them to have some good RP they have the punishment of losing their whole bank account, criminals have to grind G6 or any other job for a good long while until they have a stable bank balance and THEN and only then can they start getting involved with cops. Because of this cops are increasingly seeing shifts very quiet and then they are not getting a good RP session that they would have imagined. In fact, cops are sat there pulling over G6 drivers who are grinding money so that they can actually have a fun interaction with cops. I feel as if the fine system is impacting the lack of criminal action displayed in HighLife. As a criminal, I understand there's a punishment for committing crimes but for punishment this excessive for around 25 minutes of fun, its as if it's all pointless. I love being a cop however its almost always so quiet, there's no action. Being a police officer in highlife is becoming very very repetitive and it is awful to see it happen because there's so much for a criminal to do yet they (criminals) choose not to do it because of the fine. People just want to have a fun and good RP situation yet its so very rare to see. Another thing to take into account is that if criminals have done a huge crime and they know it will end up in being a HUGE fine, it will always end up in a shootout and there's only one reason why they shoot at the cops, they do it because they don't want to face the huge fine that they will be given if they get caught, this results in some serious ShitRP, criminals pull up to a dead-end alleyway and just proceed to fire at cops and killing them with no RP to it at all... -Yes cops are able to change the fine and adjust it a little bit to be nicer to the crim but the problem with this is the base fine, let's say normal evading in a car with reckless, etc: 26k You have to start from that which is way too excessive to the point where it's a joke. I'd rather have it start at the half, so 13k and then adjust from there if I want to I'll never give anyone full fines myself, but the system is built in a way that you can give that amount of fine which is stupid. Let's say some cop who hates me just gives me full fine because of that or because they have a history with me, it' absurd. ]**

Describe the solution you'd like [I and other people feel as if the cop fining system should be REDUCED, not reduced drastically, but it should be reduced to the point where criminals are actually not fearing of getting a HUGE fine for a crime they committed just to have good RP with both cops and him/her themself. There are so many positives if the fine system is reduced, -Better RP for shootouts -Cop shifts become more lively -Criminals have fun doing crimes -Crims are not afraid of losing everything they've worked for just for 30 mins of fun -Better RP for cops -FUN criminal situations for both cops and criminals -No more repetitive situations]

Additional context []

[Choppa25]

It's surprising me that not even once you've mentioned about lawyers in this whole thing. There's almost at any time lawyers clocked in now. If the criminal refuses to get a lawyer to save a couple of minutes and rather have a bigger fine then so be it. That's the whole point of lawyers: reducing the time and fine.

Not to mention the high number of players that just grind G6 and other jobs all the time they are on the server, then do a crime and cry about a fine. Personally, comparing the fines with the server's economy, and keeping in mind there's also lawyers that reduce the sentence, I don't see an issue with the current fines.

Reducing the fines will make the lawyer's job half useless, nobody will request them anymore, they'll be there only for car transfers and namechanges.

EDIT: Also, speaking as a cop as well, I never give full time or fine unless the suspect is the biggest prick on the planet. Even with no lawyers, I tend to drop them by a regular 20-30% and with a lawyer then around 50% at least. It depends on the officers as well, but the lawyers guarantee a reduced percentage.

EDIT2: Just like all the speed cameras around the city and how people complained about having to pay those fines, rather than stop driving 150mph+ through Legion which wouldn't happen in real life, if these fines were lower we would have more than half of the server shooting at each other knowing that the punishment will be 15 minutes of G6 worth of. If an officer pulls you over for running a red light or speeding a bit, pull over and comply, don't run away, get caught and slapped with more charges then complain about the fines. In real life, how many people actually engage in a pursuit instead of just complying if caught speeding a bit over the limit? That's just the most common example, something that happens almost daily.

[khosty]

I can definitely get behind this, as much as I realise that obviously you do need consequences for doing a crime it’s still RP, my 1st character is based on crime and owns a gang, yet I very rarely commit crimes because of the amount of money you lose if you get caught. I would love to see a reduction in fines and the time either kept the same or increased. The time isn’t a huge deterrent but at-least keeps that 1 criminal away for a while and left with nothing when comes out. The fines put people in crazy debts. There’s multiple people I’ve seen with a minus of more then 150k and they literally gave up on trying to get money. I think fines should be still running but not to this extent. Ridiculous on how you have to do hours of G6 or any other job to get yourself either back to where you were off before or back to 0.

Edit: I think maybe a reduction on the crimes that are often committed, such as FEA etc. Obviously the more heinous crimes should either be kept the same or reduced a small amount

[YaBoiAthensguy]

As a person that has been part of this community for 2 years now I can say that how the fine system currently functions is the best it can do. I'll do a comparison, you complain about being fined $26k for FEA, Reckless Driving and GTA, well back in the day FEA on it's own was $30k, Reckless Driving was $15k and GTA was $10k, so you would be fined $55k for those 3 crimes, another example, Murder used to be $45k and Att. Murder used to be $40k and they stacked way too easy, if you shot at a group of 5 cops you'd get hit with Att. Murder x5, that's $200k + the $55k just for firing in the general direction of 5 cops and doing FEA, Reckless Driving and GTA, now that they don't stack as easily/stupidly and the fact that Att. Murder and Murder have been halved in terms of fine and time, you get hit with just Att. Murder x1 or maybe x2 + the $26k, that's $66k compared to the stupid $255k you'd pay for the exact same crimes a few months back.

Now as @Ic3BoxTheSuspect said, with Lawyers and if you're actually being a cooperative person you can probably get that $66k dropped down to at least $40k, even more if you hire a private lawyer, a year ago when lawyers weren't a thing and cops rarely dropped fines at all you'd just be stuck with a $255k fine, no way to escape it other than morguing your character (which you obviously cannot evade now).

Another thing that has changed drastically from the past is the difficulty of being able to get a fat $100k within a day, back in the day if you wanted to get $100k, you'd either have to grind a WL job all day or just do A FUCK TON of drugs, but now not only do drugs pay more than they used to, public jobs have been given a MAJOR buff to what they used to be, if you grinded as much G6 as you would do now, you'd get maybe 40% of what you get now, so getting hit with that fat $255k fine without being able to get it reduced other than being lucky and getting a very friendly cop, it's fair to say that it'd damage your wallet significantly.

To finish my whole argument here, the current system right now is miles better than what it used to be and personally it can and should stay how it is. Just call a Lawyer and be co-operative, it's that simple.

[Spekeskinke]

EDIT: Also, speaking as a cop as well, I never give full time or fine unless the suspect is the biggest prick on the planet. Even with no lawyers, I tend to drop them by a regular 20-30% and with a lawyer then around 50% at least. It depends on the officers as well, but the lawyers guarantee a reduced percentage

The point here is that you reduce them anyway because you are aware the fines can be high. If the criminal is a massive prick and non compliant I get that some people want to drop big fines, but having it cap so high is bad for everyone. Lawyers will still keep their job. If you give fines around a 30-40% reducement, people who get arrested will still request a lawyer if they feel like. I mean, I've seen guys not want a lawyer with fines at 30k+ just because they cant be bothered, but thats on them. People request lawyers not only for the money, but also the RP. There is also only so much a lawyer can do. A guy with 100k+ fine is most likely gonna keep a fine somewhere close to this.

Now to the criminal side. I have a lot of fun RP scenarios I would love to create for the cops. My only concern is its gonna cost me a lot, even though the situation would be fun. Dont take me wrong, I'm not asking for it to save money. Problem is I can only do it for so much until my bank account hits 0. Say I kidnapped someone, made a situation out of it and then tried to escape in a stolen car. That would result in my probably looking at a 50k fine. And if its my own car and it gets impounded I could look at a 20k impound on top of that. Dont even get me started on shootouts. Not worth it unless you got a ton of cash which is gonna get wasted.

This is also the reason a lot of people choose the easy path in bank robberies. You wont see a newcomer try to rob legion in a stolen Rancher. He just wants to make some cash. Best thing for him is to steal a supercar and send it down the freeway for an easy escape or take the bike and go offroad. He just cant risk losing the equivelant or more for robbing the bank. Again, this comes down to how people want to play. Some do it for the money, some for the rp. The latter are usually more experienced players who have done everything, got cash, and want a fun chase with the cops. But this is a public server after all, and everyone should be tempted to make and take part in fun situations. A new players losing his whole bank account due to one failed bank robbery does suck. This snowballs into the next issue. People go in minus. How do they fix that? Head to G6 and grind. More G6 drivers in the city. Great.

Even though the current system is better from what it used to be, it doesnt promote criminalRP. And we all know there is a lack in some good situations there

[Choppa25]

I don't reduce them because I'm aware they are high, lol. I reduce them based on the quality of the roleplay the criminal provides to encourage him to keep up the good roleplay, time already spent in processing and how much he complied. If all he does is yell "fuck you, fuck 12" and try to run from the cell while I try to exit it, then he gets a bigger one.

[Spekeskinke]

Makes sense. But if he yells "fuck 12" and tries to escape, certain cops are gonna put the max just because of that. Some people cant handle someone showing some sign of disrespect or resistance.

[Scottehhh]

I've read this post, and skim read the replies and my piece will probably be similar to that of Sergei's in a way but felt I should input. So I've been in HL and PD in particular for well over 2 years. The fines used to be literally double what they are now, and to be perfectly honest back then you would see the exact same argument, "reduce the fines/times and you'll get such better RP" - completely wrong. The fines have halved since then and there is no real difference to the RP crims give. If you drop the fines further and potentially too low then you get people doing whatever the hell they want because they know there will be no actual consequences. I personally as Chief have dropped fines throughout my time in PD of my own accord in the hope of better RP, even the HL Balancing Team have looked and didn't really do too many notable reductions.

If you're here to play as a 'criminal' but are too concerned to do anything because of fines then the likelihood is you just want a quick chase and shootout - that's not roleplay imo. Criminals, or good criminals rather, don't attract the attention of police. They actively avoid police and I think you'll find there are a number of people who do that rather well. There's people we have warrants out for who have been wanted for weeks, some of them probably even into the months. That's how you roleplay a criminal. The way I see it is if you're interacting with police often enough whereby you're repeatedly getting these fines and it's putting you off then you're going about it the wrong way. You're looking for a quick fix and interaction with police, rather than roleplaying a character, building a reputation etc, maybe I'm just old school but that's how it should be. Not saying a police interaction isn't fun, but they should occur naturally in roleplay and not sought out 🤷‍♂️

Just to address a few things I've read from other posts:

I have to issue them a fine of $26,000

No, you don't have to. If someone's provided a good RP situation or the situation was say really short and that amount is excessive then reduce it. It's done all the time by Officers, in fact I'd be as confident to say that more Officers discount their fines than those who don't.

for someone who has just joined highlife...they have the punishment of losing their whole bank account

Again, the vast majority of cops will not wipe someone's bank account if they're new. They'll reduce or sometimes even disregard any fine entirely. Not to mention, if they're coming into the server, stealing a car then running from cops then they're not really getting themselves off to the best start are they?

its almost always so quiet, there's no action.

Be proactive, look in the right places. Yes, you will have quiet spells, but sometimes that's just police work. Go and sit up somewhere new, patrol a different area, do some community interaction. It's not, and shouldn't be, all run and gun action. There was a stage where all it was was constant shootouts and intense situations and that just drained Officers.

The fines put people in crazy debts. There’s multiple people I’ve seen with a minus of more then 150k and they literally gave up on trying to get money.

This is just something I've never understood. You have to do something pretty incredible to go $150k in debt in one go, meaning it almost always has to be done through multiple situations, so why do they continue to just get in shit with police if they know they'll just go deeper and deeper in debt? I lose sympathy at that point, stop with the police situations and go and earn some money.

Honestly, I think fines are overhyped. Everyone is aware of them, everyone knows roughly what the fines are for their respective crimes. If you cannot afford them/don't want them then either don't do the crime or find a way to do it smarter, try something new to get away. As Sergei said, fines are lower than they've ever been and in my opinion with zero change in the roleplay provided so I'm not personally willing to give that argument any sort of validity any longer.

[Psyanine]

It comes down to understanding the difference between a crim showing distaste of the police and being a shitlord. Take time to consider what is realistic of a criminal during a police interaction and what is "you" being a shitlord in a video game.

The main issue as Scotteh said is that criminals should find ways to conduct themselves smarter and try to be more discrete. I.e got some contraband in your vehicle then drive safe and obey the road laws. Just got caught in a violent confrontation somewhere and police were called then leave the area and don't return for a little and at the very least consider changing outfits (as long as its not during / within 10 mins from a chase). Fail to prepare then prepare to fail.

[draco74u]

I would like to just add a small detail. People in this thread are talking about how fines used to be way bigger a while ago which is true. The owner of this thread was talking about how new players cannot commit crime because of the fines because they will go minus and have to grind G6. Back in the day you couldn't go minus from cop fines. In fact if you were minus in your account because of speeding tickets and you got arrested you would go back to 0 in your account. So even though it was more expensive to commit crime for people who had money it allowed anyone no matter their account to commit crime.

I am not saying that we should go back to how it was with bigger fines and it being impossible to go into the negative because I personally like the fact that there is a risk to commiting a crime, it's realistic.

[OwenBrads]

Personally I like the fine system the way it is lowering it more would just make people be able to do crime with no worries and fines did used to be a lot higher as a few people are saying but you couldn't go into debt back then and yes fines may seem high but if you act smart and pull of well planned crimes you should be able to get away it

[BravoBB]

It's completely fine imo. If you can't pay the fine don't do the crime, or get a lawyer. You complain about $26,000. That's not a lot of money and to be honest, GTA, Evasion and Reckless are not 'minor' offences...

[Psyanine]

I'm fairly sure you could also contact a lawyer to put in an application to claim bankruptcy. Not 100% on this

[DsyncXO]

It's completely fine imo. If you can't pay the fine don't do the crime, or get a lawyer. You complain about $26,000. That's not a lot of money and to be honest, GTA, Evasion and Reckless are not 'minor' offences...

Well to make $26,000 you have to grind so there is no logic in that, fines are way too much, and yes Dont do the crime yada yada, but you need to grind a lot of money to commit a crime.

[Psyanine]

The emphasis is on not getting caught not money in advance

[Scottehhh]

you need to grind a lot of money to commit a crime.

Eh?