Smiskarn
commented
3 years ago Holy fuck. Yes, this is great.
Closed AxionXD-HL closed 3 years ago
Smiskarn
commented
3 years ago Holy fuck. Yes, this is great.
TheSlyFawkes
commented
3 years ago Game changer, I can't wait to do Cargobob runs.
CyborgJellyfish
commented
3 years ago While yes this is an amazing idea, I'm not entirely convinced that even the 120 population peaks are big enough to accommodate actual flight instructors unless it was a fixed thing. Maybe an Instructor schedule in discord? This is primarily because it can be a struggle to keep services like EMS online, so I imagine a flight instructor would be rarer than hen's teeth. Unless the 120 cap was increased, or a City 3 was introduced, I don't see this working smoothly. Additionally, it might put a dent in Downtown Cabs if someone can just book a helicopter ride from a licensed aviator, but more on that below.
So my suggestion would be, put something like the original flight school lessons mixed with custom scripts instead of an actual instructor for class 1, and restrict anything with say more than 2 seats to the commercial license? The mamatus for example I believe is a 4-seater, as is the Velum. You've got those in two different categories (presumably by size). Unless of course the back seats of a mamatus can be scripted out, in which case there's room for a 2 and 4 variant in the purchase options. Then you got the elephant in the room - what about people that ALREADY purchased a helicopter / plane. Do they suddenly get a free pass, or do they no longer get to use the vehicles they thought they paid? Or are they getting refunded for their purchases? (Please Note: I don't own a plane/heli, but I have noticed Pegasus locations in the city that this surely would affect)
Will Downtown Cabs have preexisting "upgrade" options for operating the Air Taxi expansion? Will a mechanic be able to "upgrade" to an aviation engineer? Would EMS/PD/Weasel each get different roles? Does a Downtown Cabs Air Taxi have the right to teach an EMS on rotary wing flight? Does a Weasel News reporter teach the PD how to fly?
Doesn't it kinda defeat the point for an illicit gun/weapon smuggler to carry a license at all for that matter? And we'd need some kinda expanded "under the radar" mechanism for illegal actions or the PD would just be like "Oh, it must be that plane that didn't land on the runway" right? Would instructors also have their own online flag to make them stand out? If so, surely a criminal would be noticing that there's no police aviation and ruin the chase RP? I can imagine "a simple PD are training down at flight school, quick lets do crime before they land" - if the flying lessons are to be suitably challenging, then it would take a realistic amount of time away from patrol. On the flipside, when the licensed PD Aviation is on, they're not allowed to park on the streets so you've got enough time to do crime and drive down sidestreets. Takes extra manpower to stop one criminal. Which again points back at that 120 pop peak and lack of services currently. If the police can't land, realistically how do they stop the perps? If the helicopter notices the criminals but they can't voice chat up to them, we don't effectively know when the criminals last actually engaged in the RP? Unless this means we're getting Swat style PD teams? If so, does this mean RPG / Homing launchers and other such weapons would be on the "black market"? I can't see Ron Fuel going very well when missiles are allowed, trolls would get very bad, Three things: ShitRP, NITrp, RDM...
Finally, you've got rules in place for landing with a helicopter, rules for planes, rules for rentals. I presume the "Exception Seaplanes" means that there's gonna be seaplanes rolling around in the lakes and rivers and sewers ran by smugglers since they won't have to land at airports? And I don't see ANY rules for a passenger. What about when eventually some player "accidentally" jumps out of your commercial plane? Since the blackbox is only meant to cover the pilot and vehicle, what happens to the evacuee? Is it RP-valid to jump if you have a parachute? What about airport security / hijacking aviation?
I don't want you to only take the negatives, since I honestly think if this is done correctly it would be absolutely outstanding and completely change the energy of the city. I just have to be "that guy" to point out things since it is all VERY hard work to implement, and it would be a MASSIVE change to the system. Personally, I'm thinking this as a pipedream unless all the rest of the details were worked on to the point it could take months/years of testing and debate. If it works though, consider me in the queue for that fixed wing license. I always love flying my stunt planes upside-down with my passengers screaming at me to be sensible. Nearly always land safely, and not on a runway. If I had the option to take it seriously? I'd be all for it. ;-)
RedGherkin
commented
3 years ago In addition to bringing Aviation back, Id be more than happy to take on the role of running flight school; Since Guss has retired. If you think someone else would be better suited then that is fair enough, but I have always loved planes and aviation, have an abundance of hours in the city and am a trusted helper who can keep a secret if need be :D
AxionXD-HL
commented
3 years ago Awesome reply and feedback! I will do my best to go through and work out some questions with you.
While yes this is an amazing idea, I'm not entirely convinced that even the 120 population peaks are big enough to accommodate actual flight instructors unless it was a fixed thing. Maybe an Instructor schedule in discord? This is primarily because it can be a struggle to keep services like EMS online, so I imagine a flight instructor would be rarer than hen's teeth. Unless the 120 cap was increased, or a City 3 was introduced, I don't see this working smoothly. Additionally, it might put a dent in Downtown Cabs if someone can just book a helicopter ride from a licensed aviator, but more on that below.
100% it would be a Discord schedule and we can have "open houses" on the weekends where an instructor can be there to take people up and about to get them interested in aviation in Los Santos.
So my suggestion would be, put something like the original flight school lessons mixed with custom scripts instead of an actual instructor for class 1, and restrict anything with say more than 2 seats to the commercial license? The mamatus for example I believe is a 4-seater, as is the Velum. You've got those in two different categories (presumably by size). Unless of course the back seats of a mamatus can be scripted out, in which case there's room for a 2 and 4 variant in the purchase options.
The reason I chose the Mamatus is that it is modeled after a Cessna 172 which is the standard flight training aircraft. I do agree that seats should be considered and I only went by the look, style, and size of the aircraft itself. A 2 seater variant, equivalent to a Cessna 152, should absolutely be available if that can be scripted in!
Then you got the elephant in the room - what about people that ALREADY purchased a helicopter / plane. Do they suddenly get a free pass, or do they no longer get to use the vehicles they thought they paid? Or are they getting refunded for their purchases? (Please Note: I don't own a plane/heli, but I have noticed Pegasus locations in the city that this surely would affect)
I don't think there's a whole lot of people that have the license since the last Typhoon as I don't think anyone has been managing aviation since October (that's when the last Typhoon was right?) So I don't think this is an issue. if there are people that have ownership in a plane and a license, they can maintain it but must abide by the new rules of aviation. I'm sure they aren't wanting the insurance bill on a 2 million aircraft.
Will Downtown Cabs have preexisting "upgrade" options for operating the Air Taxi expansion? Will a mechanic be able to "upgrade" to an aviation engineer? Would EMS/PD/Weasel each get different roles? Does a Downtown Cabs Air Taxi have the right to teach an EMS on rotary wing flight? Does a Weasel News reporter teach the PD how to fly?
The way i envision it is that someone with a Commercial Rotary Wing license becomes a hot commodity for all of the above. You wouldn't be a Downtown Cab driver to begin with, you could, but it not necessarily. Those with commercial rotary-wing licenses may be recruited directly by Cab and Mechanic managers simply for the demand that they can provide. not everyone will be able to afford to become pilots, and perhaps the price needs to be increased to prevent the market from being flooded with commercial pilots.
No, a Commercialllicensed holder cannot teach. Only flight instructors can teach and issue licenses. There may not be a lot right away, but it would grow as more and more people join the aviation career.
Doesn't it kinda defeat the point for an illicit gun/weapon smuggler to carry a license at all for that matter? And we'd need some kinda expanded "under the radar" mechanism for illegal actions or the PD would just be like "Oh, it must be that plane that didn't land on the runway" right? Would instructors also have their own online flag to make them stand out? If so, surely a criminal would be noticing that there's no police aviation and ruin the chase RP? I can imagine "a simple PD are training down at flight school, quick lets do crime before they land" - if the flying lessons are to be suitably challenging, then it would take a realistic amount of time away from patrol. On the flipside, when the licensed PD Aviation is on, they're not allowed to park on the streets so you've got enough time to do crime and drive down sidestreets. Takes extra manpower to stop one criminal. Which again points back at that 120 pop peak and lack of services currently. If the police can't land, realistically how do they stop the perps? If the helicopter notices the criminals but they can't voice chat up to them, we don't effectively know when the criminals last actually engaged in the RP? Unless this means we're getting Swat style PD teams? If so, does this mean RPG / Homing launchers and other such weapons would be on the "black market"? I can't see Ron Fuel going very well when missiles are allowed, trolls would get very bad, Three things: ShitRP, NITrp, RDM...
The pilot with a license isn't the one dealing the drugs. Think "American made" and sure, they can be busted if they are blatant about their use of their aircraft and license for illicit activity. Not everyone gets caught smuggling or may only get caught years later. I don't think there's a need for any distinction for PD or EMS helicopter pilots, they're just PD and EMS. Helicopters can help with chasing down motorcycle gangs that can outrun police on the ground.
Do we announce in the city when PD is doing a mass training event now? It wouldn't be taking away many in PD, any more than PD wanting to play on their other characters or goof off with friends as it is. I don't think this is an issue.
As police have exemptions from red lights when sirens are on, as would the PD helicopter and EMS helicopter have exemptions for landing on the streets if necessary for police or EMS activity. Would just need to have the area cordoned off to prevent damage from locals.
Police and EMS use Discord for Dispatch, helicopter PD and EMS would also be using Discord as dispatch to direct PD on the ground for a pursuit. There's already SWAT in Los Santos PD. With that being said, there can also be an ATC Frequency channel in Discord that all licensed pilot has access to and must use when operating an aircraft.
We have shitRPers now camping Ron and robbing Ron drivers all day, there will always be shitRPers but to base advancement in the game and elements that can generate even more interesting RP on the fear of shitRP is a bad way of developing a game. You know how to prevent shitRP in aviation? The licensed pilot who just spent $250,000 on a license and $1,000,000 on a helicopter not wanting to lose it all in a blink of an eye.
Anyone who has the funds to go through aviation isn't going to be a Danny or a Danny lite. They would be vetted by the flight instructor and held accountable with registered aircraft.
Finally, you've got rules in place for landing with a helicopter, rules for planes, rules for rentals. I presume the "Exception Seaplanes" means that there's gonna be seaplanes rolling around in the lakes and rivers and sewers ran by smugglers since they won't have to land at airports? And I don't see ANY rules for a passenger. What about when eventually some player "accidentally" jumps out of your commercial plane? Since the blackbox is only meant to cover the pilot and vehicle, what happens to the evacuee? Is it RP-valid to jump if you have a parachute? What about airport security / hijacking aviation?
Plenty of details need to be worked out for sure, not everything in my proposal is set in stone and discussions like ours is perfect for fine tuning it! I do appreciate you taking the time to read and discuss it for sure!
Seaplanes got an exemption because the game currently offers it. I don't think the seaplane could fit in the sewers, that would be an interesting use of a seaplane but yet, they would be able to land anywhere there's water. That may end up being the plane of choice for those wanting to provide services to smugglers.
Yes, you can absolutely jump with a parachute. I believe they sell them at the sporting goods place. I've spoken with Jarrk himself about this idea already in the past and he even suggested that people could go parachuting if there's someone to take them up. Just as a passenger of a car, if you hit F and exit the vehicle to oncoming traffic and die, well, you die. Be mindful of your F key and accidents like doors popping off and sucking a passenger out happen in the real world too.
We certainly can have more rules that apply to passengers as well, shitRP rules would certainly still apply and each pilot is held responsible for everything that happens to the aircraft, including who they allow into it.
I don't want you to only take the negatives, since I honestly think if this is done correctly it would be absolutely outstanding and completely change the energy of the city. I just have to be "that guy" to point out things since it is all VERY hard work to implement, and it would be a MASSIVE change to the system. Personally, I'm thinking this as a pipedream unless all the rest of the details were worked on to the point it could take months/years of testing and debate. If it works though, consider me in the queue for that fixed wing license. I always love flying my stunt planes upside-down with my passengers screaming at me to be sensible. Nearly always land safely, and not on a runway. If I had the option to take it seriously? I'd be all for it. ;-)
This was fantastic, constructive feedback! This is exactly what I would want from someone in the community and it will only further develop this idea into something that Jarrk and company work off of. This is definitely not an easy task for sure, but it certainly would be absolutely worth it to try in my opinion!
AxionXD-HL
commented
3 years ago In addition to bringing Aviation back, Id be more than happy to take on the role of running flight school; Since Guss has retired. If you think someone else would be better suited then that is fair enough, but I have always loved planes and aviation, have an abundance of hours in the city and am a trusted helper who can keep a secret if need be :D
While of course, any details on who would run the flight school itself would be entirely up to staff and administration, I certainly would be putting my hat into the ring as a candidate as I am currently a flight instructor that works in a real flight school. I would definitely be able to give realistic flight instruction, at the very least, make it sound and feel real to the participants for the RP factor.
CyborgJellyfish
commented
3 years ago Y'know, with how quickly and efficiently you broke down each one of my many rambling points, gave strong clarification and opinions, and weighed the pros and cons of things? I'm thinking maybe this isn't so far in the future after all... I can see this working out rather nicely with the mentality you got behind it. Props to you, AxionXD-HL (Pun Intended) ;-)
Jarrrk
commented
3 years ago If this is something you're still interested in, now is the time.
See the following discord announcement: https://discord.com/channels/366897352012988418/846773472659243018/846776802402631730
MY BACKGROUND
In Real-Life, I am a Commercial Pilot with Instrument Rating in both Single Engine and Multi-Engine Aircraft. I am also a Certified Flight Instructor and Instrument Instructor, as well as having my Advanced Ground Instructor and Instrument Ground Instructor certification.
Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe. Bring on board a full flight school and rental agency. I feel like I could contribute not only to allowing aviation to thrive on this server, but to also bring some real-world elements into the game's role-playing. This can bring in a whole new dynamic to the city while allowing aviation to be more than just an end-game novelty but something everyone can enjoy while holding back any NITRP or shitRP at the same time.
The cost and time associated with getting a certificate and the fear of losing it instantly and permanently would prevent most, if not all, trolling fears.
Note: Time and Money are ALL placeholders. This is to give a general framework on how I believe aviation can be managed so that it can be utilized by more people to add more RP elements to the game.
Describe the feature you'd like
CERTIFICATIONS
Student Pilot Certificate
Fixed Wing
Private Pilot Certificate
Commercial Certificate
Commercial Fixed Wing Add-On
Rotary Wing
Private Pilot
Commercial Certificate
Commercial Rotary Add-On
Flight Instructor Certificate - (Semi?) White List Job
COMMUNICATIONS EDITED 1/8/2021
LANDING REGULATIONS
ACCIDENTS AND INCIDENTS
Unintentional
Intentional
Insurance
AIRCRAFT CATEGORIES
Fixed Wing
Category 1
Category 2
Category 3
Rotary Wing
Category 1
Category 2
Category 3
AIRPORT LOGISTICS
Repair Hanger An area where a flight instructor can take an aircraft after a lesson or after a rental to repair. Students will not be charged for minor repair, may be charged for damages beyond a certain point.
Refueling Self Serve Pumps - Pilots can taxi to refueling stations
FLIGHT TRAINING
Flight Instructors maintain a viewable Google Doc with student logbook hours and certificates.
Student Pilot Certificate Administration Fee of $10,000
Flight Lessons and Checks are 30 minutes long
Fixed Wing EDIT: 1/8/2021
Private Pilot Certificate (Mammatus 2 Seater)
Commercial Certificate (Cuban 4 Seater)
Commercial Add-On Certificate (Cuban 4 Seater)
Rotary Wing
Private Pilot Certificate (Havok)
Commercial Certificate (Super Volito)
Commercial Add-On Certificate (Super Volito)
BASIC POLICIES
Purchases
Rental
AVAILABLE AIRCRAFT EDIT: 1/8/2021
Fixed Wing
Category 1
Category 2
Rotary Wing
Category 1
Category 2
Los Santos Corporate Logistics
Potential Jobs for Aviators, some may be automatic like RON delivery.
Discovery Flight - Flight with an instructor without having to qualify for a student pilot certificate. Get the real-world flight training experience without the ability to fly yourself but enjoy some RP.
Air Taxi (Both) Air EMS (Helicopter) Air Police (Helicopter) Air News (Helicopter) Aerial Photography (Both) Air Retrieval/Mechanics (Helicopter) (If Cargo Helicopter Brought to City) Sightseeing Tours (Both) Parachute Jumps (Airplane) Air Transport (Legal Cargo and Illicit - Drug Running, Weapon Running) Crop Dusting (Airplane)
GOOGLE DOCS: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KqSX0X25kGML-k1r992LUoEqM_7TQPajylfszwBLo74