Makers and Takers on Premium Bitcoins

[JulianTosh]

There should be a way to advertise and query/select bitcoins with certain qualities.

For instance, a miner offering newly minted coins should be able to set a much higher rate for his coins, but not be left out of the market for wanting to charge more for them. At the same time, a person wishing to mix their coins for newly minted ones should be able to query for said coins.

Some qualities that could be considered "premium":

• Newly minted, older than 120+ blocks
• Specific source addresses, and/or within X transactions of specified address.
  • For example: used to sell government seized-then-auctioned coins
• Coins destroying >x days.

[tailsjoin]

Advertise it in your nick.

Isn't this the opposite of fungibility though?

[chris-belcher]

Publicly advertising your UTXOs hash would make this attack worse https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket/issues/156

[JulianTosh]

All fungibility comes after the act of coinjoining/mixing. Before that, all bitcoins have some kind of a status. The status could be "stolen coins", "government white listed", or "newly mined". After they are mixed, they are fungible/equal.

One of the benefits of JoinMarket is that people with different values of their coins can trade at their perceived profit.

I don't know that anything is lost when a holder of whitelisted UTXOs advertises them on joinmarket. They are already well known.

Perhaps it may be a bad thing for the holder of newly minted bitcoins, but isn't that what the random nicks are to protect against? ​

[tailsjoin]

Perpetuating the idea that some coins are "cleaner" than others is antithetical to the goal of fungibility in my opinion. Maybe it's just my naivete.

[JulianTosh]

It's a reality that some coins are cleaner/more desirable than others. Their source/history has a different subjective value to everyone. I see a JoinMarket as a mechanism to possibly arbitrage those values and for makers to profit from it.

There IS a market for trading coins like this and the coinjoin protocol seems like a good way to minimize risk trading with unknown people.

Anyway, this was just an idea to potentially use JoinMarket another way to make money providing liquidity.

'nuff said.

[abitfan]

@tailsjoin +1

[AdamISZ]

This idea was discussed from the start as a possibility. It was also raised by theymos here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116.msg11394830#msg11394830 (edit: theymos didn't really talk about exactly this idea, but something related) (actually it's also discussed somewhere in all these github issues I think you'll find). I cannot see any logical argument that this should not be done. If JoinMarket has value, its value is to improve fungibility, which necessarily requires that fungibility is not perfect today. Insisting that all utxos coming in are indistinguishable is contradictory.

There are some interesting technical questions about how it could be done, though.

[yhaenggi]

Only minted coins should be treated as special/worthy, if any at all.

[Giszmo]

If JoinMarket has value, its value is to improve fungibility, which necessarily requires that fungibility is not perfect today. Insisting that all utxos coming in are indistinguishable is contradictory.

This.