KAfable
commented
6 years ago Suggested Changes of Suggested Changes -
Tier 1: Agree on early mana spreader Agree on early manasteel -> feeds better into Ring of Magnetization, probably have 1 Reinforced Stone Ingot -> 1 Manasteel Ingot, mana requirements TBD
Managen So what I'm going to do is move most of the Tier 2 mana generators to Tier 1 if I can find a reasonably appropriate recipe for them, (I would've honestly included RF powergen in Tier 1 but most RF generators made no sense with metal). Also I think it's worth exploring having non-mana required recipes to craft most of the flowers (also removing them from Petal Apothecary, or providing an alternative non-Petal Apth crafting mechanic)
endoflames - really don't think this should have a place in the pack since it's mechnically the same as previous progression
hydroangea - same as endoflames
Gourmaryllis - Agreed, let's look for a Tier 1 Recipe
Narslimmus - we'll leave this as the most rewarding mana generation (in an awkward way transporting or storing mana might be the most difficult aspect of Botania with weaker spreaders/no lens). Also requires minor RNG, unless they can use the RT Slime Chunk converter, which is an interaction I'm a fan of. Let's look for a Tier 1 Recipe
Rosa Arcana - Are there any spikes at the moment that allow for XP drops? All I know is that MGU Iron Spikes don't do player kills, this could be pretty powerful with spikes. I don't plan to allow for player loot farming until Tier 2B/3 (due to strength of Reliquary Mob Charms). But I'm okay with a Tier 1 Recipe.
Dandelifeon - Despite its gimmickyness, I'm not sure where else to put it, it's an underappreciated block and even though its easy to do, we can eliminate ways of automating it early (eg, advanced redstone timers/block placers). Or nerf its output, worst comes to worst, I might just remove it entirely. It seems once people hit familiar processes like Kekimurus or Narslimmus, they will never touch Dandelifeon. Let's just try it out in Tier 1 and see what happens.
Key Items Ring of Magnetization - agreed, Let's find a Tier 1 Recipe Rod of the Lands - holy crap, I totally forgot about this, this would also make clay LOADS easier, yeah let's find an easier Tier 1 Recipe, I wouldn't even mind also making it free and making the real gate be mana generation Rod of the Seas - kinda halfway tempted to just replace the damn extractor with this, but yeah maybe change the recipe to throwing an Sky Resources Extractor into a mana pool Hopperhock - agreed, how about a Life Infusion Recipe, 5 Hearts + 4 Hoppers as a Catalyst on a Pure Daisy
Tier 2 Soujourner's Sash - Agreed, let's find a Tier 2 Recipe
Crafty Crate - Since molecular assemblers are lootable in Doomlike Dungeons, I'm fine with this being available early. The current use-case I can see for it is equivalent to crafting mass melons into melon seeds for seed oil or automating Pam's Food Crafting (that uses pots, bakeware, pans, etc.) in a Gourymarylis set up. Let's find an earlier DreamWood recipe then, or possibly just have elven gateways available in Tier 2
Assembly Halo - Agreed, Let's have this craftable in Tier 2
Manufactory Halo - keep Tier 2C
Manasteel Tools - Tier 2A for manasteel, I'll make these require a casting recipe, casted over SG Regular Armor Frames (lootable in dungeons), as for tools, up to you
Elementium / Terrasteel / Elven Resources / Gaia Guardian - Aside from the pack-specific op items (such as Fluegel), I'm okay with including all of Botania's traditional progression into Pre-Tier 3, as I think that's when other mods will start overtaking Botania in terms of functionality. (This is obviously excluding grindcentric tools like Terrashatterer SS with max Haste brews + an inventory of Black Hole Talismans). Also agreed about letting Evilcraft handling Wither, and forcing Gaia Guardian kill for Tier 3 unlock
Mana pylon - Totally forgot about its enchanting functionality, I'm okay with having this in Tier 2A, let's say a rock crystal + magical wood block to start the recipe
Managen -> Entropinnyum - My personal favorite flower to automate - easy with AA shock absorbers and redstone automation, TNT Production will be the real gate to this one (I'm planning to add Toluene via ContentTweaker as main TNT source from oil processing). Let's make this Tier 2, but good requires TNT autocrafting and heavy peotrleum refining (available late Tier 2C/Tier 3) Munchdew - Haven't done a Munchdew setup before, not entirely too sure what will get this mana gen. Unsure for Tier 2 Rafflowsia - Haven't done Rafflowsia before, not sure how powerful it can be or its relative difficulty compared to other flowers. Unsure for Tier 2**
Tier 3+ / WIP Fluegel Tiara (creative flight) - Tier 3 or later Sin Runes - right now I view these as mana intenisve microcrafting requirements, they can be incorporated thematically into machines (eg. I would put the Greed Rune as part of RFTools Builder recipe). I view these as magical Blast Furnace ingots that require a lot of energy to process (eg. Tungsten), let me know if have a different perspective of them.
Ender Air - Agreed, leave this alone for now.
Kekimurus - probably the easiest lategame flower to use, I wouldn't mind gating this further down to Tier 3+ due to how easy it is to make cakes
Hjaldar
Highly WIP, largely just a brain dump
Current progression
Tier 1
Early pure daisy (pre cobblestone) No further progress due to lack of gold for mana spreaders, lack of iron for manasteel
Tier 2A "Overworld"
Access to metals but no diamonds Runic Altar (with mana pearl), elemental and seasonal runes, but no "sin" runes Most baubles (excl. charm of the diva, fluegel tiara, tainted blood pendant, cloaks, relic rings) Rods of the Lands (dirt), Seas (water), Skies (vertical propulsion), Hells (fire), Depths (cobble) mana production: endoflames, gourmaryllis, hydroangea, narslimmus (powerful in skyblock), rosa arcana, thermalilly brews
Tier 2B Abyssal Wasteland
no botania progression
Tier 2C Twilight Forest
Limited access to diamonds Mana pylon (enchanting) Tier 3 "sin" runes Terrasteel, elven resources, gaia guardian Ender air still unavailable (fluegel tiara, corporea, etc) Mana production: entropinnyum, munchdew, kekimurus, rafflowsia Gaia Guardian - could make a single gaia spirit required for Tier 3 portal (wither kill for beacon is achievable in Tier 2C with Evilcraft)
Key Items (and equivalents from other mods), plus Tier suggestions
Ring of Magnetization (arguably best in class, particularly when combines with solegnolias) - Tier 1 due to skyblock utility Soujourner's Sash (AA rings) - Tier 2 due to lack of skyblock utility Rod of the Lands (effectively superseded by veinmining dirt in overworld) - Tier 1 as alternate dirt production method Rod of the Seas (superseded by infinite water, except niche uses) - Tier 1 Hopperhock (absorption hopper, item collector, advanced item collector) - Tier 1 to provide filtered item collection, early mob farm automation Crafty Crate (auto crafters, earliest being IE Assembler), currently gated behind terrasteel, so Tier 2C - early Tier 2 with custom recipe bypassing dreamwood, or an earlier method of making dreamwood (has no knock-on effects) Assembly Halo (many early mobile crafting options, exalted crafter in Tier 2C better in some ways) - Tier 2 Manufactory Halo - keep Tier 2C Fluegel Tiara (creative flight) - Tier 3 or later Tools/Armor/Weapons (comparable to SG equivalents, terrasteel tools devalued due to ore excavation) - Tier 2A for manasteel, Tier 2C for elementium/terrasteel
Suggested Changes
Tier 1:
Change mana spreader recipe to GoG version by replacing gold ingot with livingwood Provide mana infusion (pool) recipe for Reinforced Stone Ingot -> Manasteel Ingot Remove endoflames
Tier 2A:
Manasteel Armor/Tools - replace one manasteel ingot with iron ingot or one living wood twig with Darklands Oak Log Provide mana infusion (pool) recipe for Darkwood Oak Log -> Dreamwood
Tier 2B:
none
Tier 2C:
TBD