Slightly increase CoF's ppoulation

[Captaingrass]

Quick questions HOI4 version: newest Kaiserreich version: newset

Describe the change you would like: A slight increase in CoF's population

Explain the reasoning behind this change: A flow of socialist supporters from around the world would have occurred in the 17 years of the CoF's existence. The CoF, the birthplace of the workers' revolution and for years the only Syndicalist state would attract people from many parts of the world from many pro-socialist backgrounds( students, political exiles, refugees from crushed rebellions (such as Russia, Vietnam and China), any-German leftist groups and individuals from all over Europe and etc...

Additional context or comments: An addition of 2 million people to its population I believe can be acceptable. Let's say socialists writers, philosophers, inventors, politicians, students and others have moved to CoF, that's roughly 900,000 people. Let's also say refugees and exiles from places like Russia, Vietnam, Indonesia and others (presumably with their loved ones as well) is also roughly 900,000, plus 200,000 births with over the course of 17 years and since there's no great depression in France because of its relatively isolationist syndicalist economy there's also no collapse in birth rates afterwards like in OTL.

[Nijato]

2 million is way too much. The few tens of thousands immigrants into France would anyway not compensate the losses of the Civil war and one more year of war. If anything we should maybe reduce the population.

[Captaingrass]

few thousands? Russian refugees were at the hundreds of thousands during the civil war OTL, same in Vietnam in the 70's. Considering how many attempts of socialist revolutions were conducted in this timeline, I'd considering 2 million barely enough. Information about the numbers of refugees from white Russia and Vietnam; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people https://blogs.bl.uk/european/2015/12/the-russian-refugee-crisis-of-the-1920s.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_%C3%A9migr%C3%A9

[Nijato]

What are you on about? This is precisely what I said. The French civil war would create hundreds of thousands of refugees in neighboring countries, and we already take that into account.

What you propose however is that people from around the world would flee to France specifically for no reason other than the love of socialism? It makes no sense and didn't happen on this scale in a socialist country OTL

[Captaingrass]

I thought you guys considered National France as basically the "white emigre" of this timeline. My idea comes from the fact that France is not the USSR, meaning its relatively freer and as restrictive til 1936. People who are exiles, persecuted, anti-German European leftists and what not would come to France for the same variety of reasons Communists came to the USSR. Out of the Top of my head, Enver Hoxha resides in CoF as a Totalist candidate for puppet'd Albania, is it really that far fetched that many more like him also live in France? Moreover, unlike OTL, the refugees from the defeated RSFSR don't have many places to go. Unlike the Whites who were welcomed by countries such as UK, US, Japan, China and more, the Communists are hated and considered as a 5th column, therefore would not be allowed entrance to any nation in Europe(maybe Switzerland but even they wouldn't let in so many) except CoF at the time. What about highly populated places like China, India, Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia? Is it seriously so implausible that out of dozens of millions of people in these places, a few hundreds of thousands would decide to leave a eventually create a diaspora in CoF?

[Nijato]

Well I think first off it's a bit mad to think that people from Asia for example will better go to France than in the SU because it's "freer". When you live under a colonial regime everything is freer. Also OTL those people didn't leave en masse (except in civil war situations), they didn't because they simply couldn't and I don't see why that would be the case here. While it's not unreasonable that persecuted Europeans could flee to France, as it happened sometimes already before, I don't think it will be fundamental enough to change the demography. I think also those people would mainly be simple persecuted people rather than socialists, who are always quite few in number in the end. I think maybe some poles could end up in France for example?

Basically yeah I never denied there could be immigration, mostly of socialists of all kind, but that would amount to like tens of thousands of people at most. As for larger populations it would be people that can flee to France quite easily, and that live persecutions, so I imagine mainly Europeans.

The special case of the russians is also not that important in the grand scheme of things. OTL around 250 000 white russians fled to France in total. This number is high compared to the number of red Russians that would flee, first because of their wealth, and second because there was a feeling of impending doom OTL that doesn't happen here. If you're an aristocrat in the SU you die, if you're a red worker in the Russian Republic well too bad, but you will probably just get back to being exploited again and that's it. For these reasons I think it can be reasonable to imagine 100 000 red Russians fleeing to France maybe less?

Even with other nationalities anyway it would never even come close to a million people in my opinion, let alone 2 million.

[Captaingrass]

I mean, this is a different universe and different realities. Will these people really be immigrating to America with the US dealing with the Great Depression since 1925? Won't CoF, a nation that suffered enormous casualties and would logically want to desperately regain some lost numbers, be encouraging immigration far more than OTL France did? And since they don't have their colonial empire anymore, they HAVE to convince people to come( for various incentives for those individuals). What about the Ukrainians? Belorussians? Baltics? Germany itself? Belgium? Netherlands? Spain? Portugal? Can't these "few dozens of thousands" eventually become hundreds of thousands? Also, I never said "one big population boom". I meant constant immigration over 17 years. About the Red Russians. I disagree. The White Terror was thing in KR as well. Isn't it possible for the reds, just like the whites, believe that they are doomed for the firing squad if they don't flee? There were "only" 250,000 in France because the whites were welcomed in many places( UK, US, China...). In this universe, there's basically only one place for the reds and that is CoF( also, I think you'd agree with me that in 1919, civil war or not, France is still a better place to live in than Russia).