search

Kaiserreich / Kaiserreich-4-Bug-Reports

Issue tracker for Kaiserreich for Hearts of Iron 4
109 stars 40 forks source link

List of Better Army Templates for the AI #19689

Closed Blood-eXplosion closed 2 years ago

Blood-eXplosion commented 2 years ago

Quick questions HOI4 version: 1.11.10 Kaiserreich version: 0.20.1

Describe the specific changes you would like:

  1. Starting templates needs to be changed to be compatible with 1.11's new combat width. More on that later - the rest of the suggestions will include the division templates.
  2. Anti-tank templates should not have SPGs.
  3. Anti-tank templates should not have light TDs.
  4. Either a) replace TDs with anti-tank guns; or b) have a separate Tank Destroyer Role templates for the AI.
  5. Anti-tank templates should be 10-1 or 9-3 (inf-AT) for 21 width, 8-2 for 18 width, 14-2 or 13-4 for 30 width, 7-1 for 15 width, and 13-1 or 12-3 for 27 widths and in all cases should have engineer and anti-tank support companies with logistics company viable for 27w/30w and support artillery being optional in case of these templates being attacked by infantry divisions, and no other support companies should even be considered (bar from AA, but only if the air supremacy is lost). Of course you can always replace one inf. battalion for two AT battalions for extra hard attack and extra piercing, but that's up for debate since you need to make sure the org is high enough.
  6. Tank divisions should be in 30 width.
  7. Regardless of tank types, the divisions should be 9-6 (tank-mot/mech), but the number of tanks and mot/mech can be changed depending on the doctrine (10-5/11-6 can be used for Mobile Warfare).
  8. Again, regardless of tank types, the support companies should be engineer, maintenance, logistics, signal, and light flame tank.
  9. Also, for medium tank divisions, one (if not more) of the tank battalions can be replaced with TDs for extra hard attack in exchange for breakthrough.
  10. Heavy tanks should be avoided at all cost, and by that I mean HEAVY_ARMOR_TEMPLATE and HEAVY_ARMOR_MECH_TEMPLATE should be deleted.
  11. Bicycle templates should not use field hospitals unless field hospital 3/4's are researched or has a focus that buffs it to FH 3/4's level (this applies to ALL AI division templates that uses field hospitals). Also, Replace L-SPGs with light tanks with close support gun on it.
  12. Cavalry/camelry divisions should be avoided at all cost unless the country using it did not research any land doctrines or has insane buffs to it. Also, they should follow the combat width meta (of which only 10w and 18w are applicable, and maybe 30w).
  13. infantry_template_medium should be either 9-0 (18w) or 9-1 (21w).
  14. infantry_template_large should be exclusive to countries that mainly fight in rough terrains where tanks are pretty much oversized coffins and should have logistics company (replacing field hospital, obviously).
  15. MARINE_TEMPLATE should use support artillery instead of mot_recon, if not being replaced by 6-1 (Mar.-Arty.) with support engineer.
  16. MARINE_BIG_TEMPLATE should use 9-3's instead of 14-4's, and should not use light SPGs. If the devs are addicted to making marines into space marines, then consider using light tanks with close support guns for cost-effectiveness.
  17. AmTrac only/ AmTrac with motorized rocket artillery (1939 tech, not rocket artillery that's motorized, which is 1940+ tech), and AmTrac with AmTank division could be added to \ai_templates\marine_role.txt.
  18. MOTORIZED_TEMPLATE should be 18 width (9-0), not 20 width.
  19. MOTORIZED_TEMPLATE_AT should be deleted.
  20. MECHANIZED_TEMPLATE_1 should be 18 width (9-0), not 20 width.
  21. MECHANIZED_TEMPLATE_2 should be deleted or replace the light tank destroyers with medium tank destroyers and should be 30 width.
  22. 6-6 (Mechanized-Motorized Rocket Artillery), with support engineer, logistics, and light flame tank could be added.
  23. MOUNTAINEER_TEMPLATE and MOUNTAINEER_TEMPLATE_UPGRADE should be 25 width, changed to MOUNTAINEER_TEMPLATE_DEFENSIVE and MOUNTAINEER_TEMPLATE_OFFENSIVE, the former of which should be 11-1 (Mt-Art) and the latter should be 8-3, and both of them should at least have engineer support company.
  24. CAVALRY_SUPPRESSION_TEMPLATE2 should have 25 cavalry battalions instead of 10 cavalry battalions.
  25. Paratrooper template(s) for the AI could be considered.

Explain the reasoning behind this actionable change:

  1. Some of the starting templates were changed to 7-2 back in the day because the AI likes to literally throw men hopelessly, which isn't the case anymore (at least in vanilla), and the combat width meta changed, which means throwing 20w is not viable unless it's hills.
  2. Anti-tank divisions' purpose is to pierce enemy tanks, which means having more hard attack, not soft attack.
  3. Light TD's guns can be mounted to medium tanks, making the former obsolete, not to mention that basic high-velocity cannon (1936 tech) can be mounted to light tanks as well. By the time you have a gun worth mounting to light TD's (improved high-velocity cannon, 1942 tech), it gets immediately outclassed by medium TDs (due to improved heavy cannon having same hard attack and piercing as h-v cannon 2's while being a 1940 tech).
  4. By having infantry with your TDs that division loses hardness and armor, which results in getting more damage from soft attack and having higher chance of getting pierced. If, however you have inf. with your ATs, you get less damages from hard attack due to low (if any) hardness. That being said "tank" divisions with nothing but TDs could work, but it lacks soft attack to defeat any non-tank divisions without some miracle, so it is debatable.
  5. 21 width fits perfectly into forest provinces, which is common in Europe, which is where the tanks are most efficient (everywhere else has less supply). 30 width and 15 width are perfect on plaines. 18 width compromises on that but is perfect for plains and is decent on everywhere else. The same goes for 27 width, except it's perfect on plains only if you attack it from 2 sides (27*5=90+45=135).
  6. I was thinking 42/44 width should be used for "large" templates, but apparently they lose to 30 width divisions. 18 width could be possible since it was not tested in the video I linked, but I cannot vouch for it since I haven't playtested 18w tank divisions either.
  7. 9-6 has the same ratio as the old 12-8, which was the meta back when it was 40w meta. As usual, due to Mobile Warfare giving more org on tanks you can and should replace one (if not more) of the mot/mech battalions to tank.
  8. Engineer gives defensive bonuses you'd get more often than you think, along with some bonuses for river crossing and attacking forts. Maintenance gives reliability bonus, making your tank division lose less equipment due to attrition/low reliability. Logistics is self-explanatory, and signals gives initiative and coordination stat boosts. Last but not least, flame tanks give terrain bonuses and out of three variants the light flametanks give the best bonuses.
  9. Since unpiercable tank divisions are not a thing anymore (go to 7:05 on the link provided for 6.), TDs are for extra hard attack, which gives more damages to enemy tank divisions due to their hardness. Again, because Mobile Warfare gives bonuses to tanks (breakthrough for this case), the AI's tank divisions should be able to replace more tanks with TDs. "Why light tanks are not worth it" is already explained on No. 3 of this list.
  10. Heavy tanks are neither cost-effective nor cost-efficient due to NSB DLC, and will get pierced anyways (again, courtesy of NSB DLC).
  11. Field hospital could work in theory but not in practice because if you don't have the manpower to afford it you most likely won't have industry to afford it either, and if you have the industry to afford it you can make better division instead. That being said if you're able to rush field hospital 3/4's then it's debatable. Same goes for recon since they're only worth considering in defensive divisions due to how recon stats work in general.
  12. Even though Kaiserreich's land doctine gives buffs to cavalry as well they get phased out after you research some land doctrines. That being said if you're playing a country that buffs it, such as Mongolia, then cavalry should be used.
  13. See explanation no. 5 on 18 width and 21 width and no. 1 on replacing the old infantry_template_medium that uses 7-2's.
  14. Using infantry to attack (again with 1.11 update the AI has somewhat improved to not do) should be exclusive to rough terrains. With that in mind, using logistics is no-brainer.
  15. The current MARINE_TEMPLATE does not have support artillery, making it 9-0 "brick" division with not enough soft attack. Alternatively 6-1 (15 width) can be used since it also fits perfectly into plains province (15*6=90) and with "aggressive" AI that naval invades a lot org-cycling with 6-1 marines suddenly becomes viable.
  16. 9-3 is basically the current infantry_template_large. Also, don't forget to get rid of field hospitals in favor of logistics company.
  17. These divisions can be a overkill, but they WILL do their job very well. For the templates, see (insert no. where I put mech/tank template), replace the mechanized with AmTrac (amphibious tractors) and light/medium tanks with AmTank (amphibious tanks), and add light flame tanks on them for the no mot. rocket artillery variant of mechanized template I recommended.
  18. See explanation no. 5.
  19. Either the non-motorized variant of it (if you want it to be cost-effective) or a tank division (if you want to keep the motorized) will net better results.
  20. See No. 5.
  21. See No. 3 on why light tank destroyers are not worth using, and see No. 5 and 6 for the combat width.
  22. If you insist on not making tanks, then mechanized with motorized rocket artillery (1939 tech) is a great alternative.
  23. 25 width is perfect for mountains (75w+25w), hence it is used. MOUNTAINEER_TEMPLATE_DEFENSIVE should be used by countries that have to hold mountain provinces, such as Georgia and Austria, and MOUNTAINEER_TEMPLATE_OFFENSIVE should be used by a country that has to attack mountain provinces, such as Russia (assuming they can capitulate Don-Kuban Union in a timely manner).
  24. Military Police support company does not add suppression stat, but multiplies the battalions' suppression stat.
  25. With 1.11 paratroopers don't have to invade undefended victory points - they can just land on the supply hub and suck out nearby divisions' supply. That being said if the gamerule bans paratrooping the AI should not research or make paratroopers.

Additional context or comments:

  1. I was about to add some things on upgrade_prio and production_prio as well, but that would make this post even longer. The same goes for ship/tank templates.
  2. I am considering applying for the dev team except my Discord accounts (keyword: accounts) got hacked so this is the next best thing I can do.
  3. If you have the perms to change the title, can you change it to List of Better Division Templates for the AI?
KRFrostleaf commented 2 years ago

template issues have already been looked into internally