search

Kaiserreich / Kaiserreich-4-Bug-Reports

Issue tracker for Kaiserreich for Hearts of Iron 4
108 stars 40 forks source link

FRA - Additonal Army Roster Suggestions #22549

Closed koheiwatabe closed 1 year ago

koheiwatabe commented 1 year ago

Quick questions HOI4 version: 1.12.14 Kaiserreich version: 0.25

Preface: While the recent changes to the CoF's army roster have been a great improvement, I still have many more suggestions that I believe would elevate the roster from being in a really good spot to damn near perfect.

Describe the specific change you would like:

Explain the reasoning behind this actionable change(s):

  1. The status of the bolshevik exiles within the French army feels very unjustified and borderline absurd, especially now that they start as potential Chiefs of the Army (CoA). While I assume that this is in large part due to the Third International's greater emphasis on being well international, I would still much rather prefer if their role was more reserved. Having these generals locked behind decisions would be a simple solution, emphasizing the political cost of puting emigres in command of french armies, but still allowing them to play a substantial role in the French army if desired by the player. But even so, I think an emigre being able to hold the top position in the CoF army, that is to say a potential CoA, should not be possible.
  2. I happened to stumble on André Boris through a lucky google search, and I am super glad I did, as he holds all the necessary traits to hold a top position in the CoF army. His father, Paul Léon Boris, was a notary by profession and second lieutenant of infantry. Through his mother, he was the nephew of General René Alexandre (1864- 1932 ), and nephew of the engineer of the Ponts et Chaussées, Paul Alexandre. His family was jewish and noted as patriotic, secular, and republican with minor connections to the popular front through Georges Boris, who was André Boris's cousin and the chief of staff of Léon Blum in 1938. André Boris was noted as an exceptional student at the college of Toul, where he obtained the first prizes for Greek version, history and geography. He then joined the École Polytechnique in 1895, then the École Supérieure de Guerre in 1910. He served primarily in staff roles throughout his career, but eventually became Director of Artillery at the Ministry of War in 1933 and later Army Corps General and General Inspectorate of Artillery service in 1940. He was initially loyal to Vichy Regime following the fall of france, but was later automatically retired on April 1, 1942 “because of his belonging to the Jewish race." The fact that, despite being jewish, André Boris was able to reach such high esteem in the OTL french army, in my mind is a sign of an exceptional commander, and one worthy of being a starting field marshal for the CoF. Due to Boris's lack of a combat record, there is alot freedom when it comes to assigning his skills, attributes and whether or not he should be represented as a field marshal or general.
  3. Rene Carmille was an army general and notable technical saboteur within Vichy France, whose actions limited the number of french jews who were deported to Germany as part of the Holocaust. I initially saw Carmille as a potential army commander candidate, but the more I read about the more I have come to see that he probably better suited as an advisor or spy. Either way he is a fascinating and obscure person from history, and I think he should play some role in the CoF rework.
  4. The fact that the CoF lacks even a single level 4 general that is not an exiled bolshevik has been a particularly sore spot for me in regards to its army roster. Assuming my suggestions regarding the bolsheviks are implemented, this would make CoF the only major without a starting level 4 general. I'll admit that finding/choosing a general to fill this role was very difficult, both due to the limited success of the French army during WW2 and the fact that some of the best and more senior french generals are exiled in North Africa in the KRTL. But after some research, I would say Rene Orly is likely the best candidate to be bumped up to level 4, due to his successful command of the Army of the Alps in the final days of the Battle of France, in which he humiliated the Italian army despite having a sizeable numerical disadvantage. To better sell this change, I would remove the trait "Mountaineer" from Orly, as to attribute his success in the Alps to his overall skill as a commander rather than him simply being adept at mountain warfare. There is of course the argument that considering his opponent was the Royal Italian Army, what he achieved wasnt all that impressive, so when it comes to alternative/additional candidates, oddly enough one I would choose would be Maurice Gamelin. Using Gamelin's excellent service during WW1 and reputation leading up to the WW2 (even among the Germans) as justification, while still puting emphasis on his faults as a general/marshal through his negative traits.
  5. While I was happy to see Aubert Frère moved from Nat France to CoF, I was a bit disappointed that his stats and traits were unchanged, and I feel an opportunity was missed to reassess his skill and attributes as a general. Firstly his decorated service during WW1, which included action in the Battle of Charleroi, Verdun, and the Somme, three serious injuries and 8 citations which included the Legion of Honor, France's highest military decoration, make him worthy of the trait "War Hero." Secondly it feels wrong for him to be level 2, when nothing about his military service would indicate him being a below average general. I feel he is best suited to be level 3, as this would put him on par with generals such as Jean-Edouard Verneau and Ernest Petit.
  6. I've been going back on forth regarding the representation of Maurice Gamelin in Kaiserreich, and I've come to the conclusion that while it is perfectly justified from a historical/lore perspective to label Gamelin as an Inflexible Strategist, the problem with Hearts of Iron IV is that it uses that personality trait as a purely positive bonus for army leaders rather than one that has any downsides, with it being second only to the trait Brilliant Strategist in terms of value. This makes Maurice Gamelin a tad too strong as a field marshal, as not only does he have the extra skill points, but also the ability to be granted the field marshal trait "Unyielding Defender" making him undoubtedly the best choice when it comes to a defensive field marshal for the CoF. I feel this inaccurately portrays Gamelin's command abilities, as he utterly failed in terms of putting up on effective defense during the Battle of France. A much more reasonable representation would be of a general who has all the necessary experience, intelligence, and prestige to hold the top spot in the French Army, but suffers from many negative traits that dampen his abilities. When it comes giving Gamelin the trait Cautious, this comes from his reputation of being particularly careful with the lives of his men (at least during WW1), as well as his lack of speed and vigor during the Battle of France. In other words, for the same reasons he was given the "Inflexible Strategist" trait.
  7. It is my understanding that Diego Brosset was given the Engineer trait by Alpinia in response to my initial suggestions regarding the french army roster, particularly as a solution to the issues of CoF lacking an Engineer and Diego Brosset and Raoul Magrin Vernerey having identical traits and skills. This change comes off as wrong, not only because Diego Brosset already starts with the powerful and unique trait "Adaptable" but because he lacks the necessary training/background to be represented as an Engineer, especially when compared to generals Henri Adeline and Jean-Edouard Verneau.
  8. This was one of the handful of suggestions from my previous round of army roster changes that was rejected, but I still feel strongly against the practice of giving generals traits and attributes they did not have OTL for what I can only assume are balance reasons, as I believe has been the case for Georges Catroux. If the concern is that without Catroux serving the role that he has, the CoF lacks enough offensive capabilities, I would instead suggest that his 10% division attack bonus was implemented in the army tree, ideally as part of the last focus.
  9. Another one of the suggestions from my previous post, yet it is one that I now want to make a reversal on. Not because I think any more negatively of Marie-Pierre Koenig, but because when it comes to serving as a potential CoA, I believe Ernest Petit is someone who is much more suitable for the role. This is both because of Petit's age compared to Koenig, as well as his connection to the PCF, indicating a much stronger ideological allegiance to the CoF. I believe the latter gives Petit a distinct edge over other the generals in the CoF when it comes to an eventual rise to the top position in the french army. I do not have a strong reason for why Petit would have the Army Planning CoA trait in particular other than it being vaguely connected to his career as a staff officer and it being a safe and non-specific choice. He could just as easily be given the Army Reformer, Morale, or Drill trait.
  10. The issue with Henri Adeline and Jean-Edouard Verneau is that they have been given identical traits and skills as eachother, making the choice between the two superfluous. An odd oversight considering my previous suggestion regarding Raoul Magrin Vernerey was in response to the exact same problem. The new traits I proposed would make Jean-Edouard Verneau the more basic, careerist general, while Henri Adeline would be the more talented and eccentric general reflective of his time leading the Maquis and French Forces of the Interior IRL
  11. A minor change only meant to provide flavour to Henri Frenay, acting as a representation of his mixed feelings regarding the CoF. Could imagine it serving a purpose by having an event for Frenay to swap allegiances once the French Republic has begun to occupy parts of france/reclaimed the metropole, but that is beyond the scope of this suggestion.
  12. Like the above change, this is primarily meant to add flavour, in this case to general Louis Buisson. Specifically making it so Charles Delestraint is not the only dedicated "Armor Officer" for the CoF. Also, due to the hidden bonuses provided by Armor Officer, that being the extra chance for attack on planning on level up, it would make Buisson a more appealing choice than he is now.
  13. While I dont expect this large of an addition to be added any time soon, as it would require creating detailed lore for all 22 starting generals, because these are meant to be my final suggestions CoF army roster, I would be remiss if I didnt include this. It goes without saying that this addition would greatly improve the authenticity and richness the CoF's army, and be an excellent place to fill in some gaps of the CoF's interwar lore. I would be willing to help in writing some of these if there is a lack of interest from the team.

Additional context or comments: The specific stats & traits I would change for each of the mentioned army leaders. Made with the intention that every general has a varied set of attributes, even if only slightly. generals2 generals1 Notice below how Tukhachevsky's CoA role still exists, but will only function if you are Socialist Russia. CoA Example decision regarding the bolshevik exiles decision example

Alpinia commented 1 year ago
  1. The Bolsheviks won't be removed - at most, they might be locked behind a focus in the rework, and even then Tukha might be an exception. Their presence is a core part of the narrative "theme" France's army has, and their removal would bring it closer to a more 'standard' army roster when the objective is the exact opposite.
  2. No reason not to, added - will be in a patch once the portrait is done.
  3. Good find, will most likely be used in the FRA rework.
  4. This is intended - dealing with officer corps skill levels is one of the challenges FRA faces in the rework, and they will have ways to make up for the gap. But there is a gap, which is represented by the lack of level 4's. This is partly balance, partly gameplay - having a more unique army situation works much better for narrative and gameplay reasons.
  5. Fair enough, Frère is now level 3.
  6. I've added cautious to Gamelin, but I feel inflexible strategist suits him fine - combined with old guard and now cautious, it means Gamelin will heavily lag behind in attack and planning capabilities. As for his historical record, I would be wary of putting too much on the man himself - the state of the French military in 1940 is a consequence of a decade of political infighting and instability, and while Gamelin's age might have not helped, it is probably not fair to lay the blame for the fall of France on any single person when it was very much a systematic failure on the national level - political, societal, diplomatic and military.
  7. Fair enough, removed.
  8. Fair enough, adjusted the skills and traits as you suggested. Army chief role changed to reformer.
  9. Koenig is 38 at game start - young, but not unrealistically so. I think it's fine in the context of a revolutionary army - Tukha himself was a marshal before reaching his 40's.
  10. Fair enough, changed as suggested.
  11. Added.
  12. Added.
  13. Already being done in the rework - it won't be done for legacy FRA due to lore differences that make it not worthy of the time investment (loc is a lot harder to do than one might think).
koheiwatabe commented 1 year ago

Unsure whether my suggestions regarding the 10% division attack bonus, Ernest Petit being made a potential CoA, and Mikhail Tukhachevsky being changed to a Mass Assault theorist are being implemented, but regardless, happy to see the quick and positive response.

Alpinia commented 1 year ago
koheiwatabe commented 1 year ago

Ok thanks for the clarification