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Issue tracker for Kaiserreich for Hearts of Iron 4
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RUS and UKR - Ukrainian-Russian border #7374

Closed P1derasist closed 4 years ago

P1derasist commented 4 years ago

Quick questions HOI4 version: 1.9.1 Kaiserreich version: 0.11.2

Describe the change you would like: Transfer of Slobozhanshchina to Ukraine

Explain the reasoning behind this change: Of course, I do not know what is planned in the new update of Ukraine, but there is an unresolved issue of borders. So I'll start with the history of the world in the game.

The Treaty of Minsk

Though the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk had been signed by the Bolsheviks, the Whites had little choice but to re-ratify it. With none of the White generals willing to besmirch their individual honour, it was unanimously decided that a troika of Russian political leaders would sign together. Kolchak, as Supreme Ruler, was the formal head of the trio, while his two companions were his acting Prime Minister Sazonov, and finally Alexander Kerensky, whose status as the last pre-Civil War head of state gave the delegation a connection to the prior regime.

https://kaiserreich.fandom.com/wiki/Russian_Civil_War

So now let's look at the territory of Ukraine that departed from it According to the Brest-Lithuanian Peace Treaty image But this is not final because Ukraine in 1918 negotiated with the RSFSR.

Peaceful Negotiations between the Ukrainian State and the RSFSR (1918)

image (Ukrainian Delegation, 1918)

For the Ukrainian side, negotiations with the RSFSR were dictated by the need to resolve the problems that objectively arose from the collapse of the Russian state and the self-determination of Ukraine. For the Russian side, they were compelled by a measure bound by the Brest peace treaty of the RSFSR with the states of the Fourth Union of March 3, 1918. These negotiations involved heated discussions not only on purely political relations but also on the border.

Since this is not said in the English version of Wikipedia, I will use Ukrainian Wikipedia: https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%96_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8_%D0%BC%D1%96%D0%B6_%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%8E_%D0%94%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%8E_%D1%82%D0%B0_%D0%A0%D0%A1%D0%A4%D0%A0%D0%A0_(1918)

Russian-Ukrainian border The main purpose of the conference was to work out the terms of the peace treaty. The issue of state borders was particularly discussed. In fact, all subsequent plenary sessions were in one way or another reduced to fierce discussions about this. Deliberately hampering the negotiation process, the Russian delegation disagreed with the Ukrainian border project and considered it offensive, expansive to Russia. For its part, the Russian side was not satisfied with the Russian project, which aimed at satisfying the great claims of the RSFSR and its Bolshevik government, trying to destroy the territorial and economic integrity of the Ukrainian State. Disputes between the parties on this matter have actually led the negotiations to a standstill.

Russia has ratified the treaty, which means that it should continue to negotiate with Ukraine at the border. Ukraine was on the side of the victors, and Russia was destroyed and humiliated, so it could not in any way speculate and delay the negotiations. That is why I believe that those territories to which Ukraine had claims should be attached to it.

And this is Slobozhanshchina. image

P1derasist commented 4 years ago

UPD: Ukraine as of 1918 image And administrative-territorial divide of the Ukrainian State. Green dotted line - territorial claims. image

Alpinia commented 4 years ago

The border we currently have in game was drawn after extensive research, and it roughly follows the Russian guberniyas.