Alpinia
commented
4 years ago Romania is being reworked entirely, but we shall consider these suggestions.
Closed Akfiz closed 4 years ago
Alpinia
commented
4 years ago Romania is being reworked entirely, but we shall consider these suggestions.
Quick questions HOI4 version: 1.9.2 Kaiserreich version: the last one from steam.
Describe the change you would like: You probably know about the Great Union of Romania in 1918. Where the regions of Banat, Transylvania, Bukovina and Bessarabia that were under the Austria-Hungary and Russia but had an aboslute Romanian majority became part of Romania, and didn't in Kaiserreich. But do you know, how this happened?
It's intuitive to assume that the unification of Romania was merely the Entente giving this territory to Romania. Although the Entente ultimately decided what Romania does and doesn't get, as I don't suppose Romania had the force to defy the Entente had they suggested otherwise, the taken territories of Bessarabia, Bukovina and Transylvania were actually unions because previously the people of those territories formed their own governments and then expressed their own desires to both the Entente and their old oppressors (Austria-Hungary and Russia) on their own initiative, and came forward with terms and conditions to the Romanian government for the unification with Romania. In short, they became like mini-states with their own governments prior to the unification.
BESSARABIA: When the February Revolution started in Russia, the region of Bessarabia created the Sfatul Tarii (a government) and declared autonomy, stating that they wish to become a Federal State within the new Russia, after the October Revolution they gave up any plans for autonomy and declared union with Romania. Originally, it was a conditional union and Bessarabia would become a autonomus region within Romania, but after Bukovina and Transylvania also united with Romania, they stated they modified the 27 March act and changed the union into an unconditional one.
THE DECLARATION OF UNION: "On behalf of the people of Bessarabia, the Country Council declares: The Democratic Republic of Moldova (Bessarabia), on its borders between the Pruth, the Dniester, the Black Sea and the old border with Austria, torn by Russia a hundred and more years ago from the body of old Moldova, in the power of historical right and people's right, based the principle that the people alone decide their fate, from now on and forever unites with its mother, Romania. This union is made on the following bases: The current Council of the Country remains to resolve and carry out the agrarian reform according to the needs and demands of the people; these decisions will be recognized by the Romanian government. Bessarabia retains its provincial autonomy, having a Country Council, elected in the future by universal, equal, direct and secret vote, with an executive body and its own administration.The competence of the Country Council is: a) voting local budgets; b) control of all zemstvo organs and cities; c) the appointment of all local government officials through its executive body, and senior officials are strengthened by the government (...)" - The resolution of the Moldovan Bloc that was read and voted in the meeting of 27 March 1918 of the Country Council in Chisinau. After the vote on the resolution, it became the declaration of unification of Bessarabia with Romania.
THE DECLARATION OF UNCONDITIONAL UNION: "Following the union with mother Romania of Bukovina, Transylvania, Banat and the Hungarian lands, inhabited by Romanians, on the Danube and Tisza borders, the Country Council declares that Bessarabia renounces the conditions of union, stipulated in the act of March 27, being confident that in Romania off all Romanians the clean democratic regime is ensured in the future. The Council of the Country, on the eve of the Romanian Constituent Assembly, that will be elected by universal vote, and resolving the agrarian issue according to the needs and demands of the people, annuls the other conditions of the Union Act of March 27 and declares the unconditional union of Bessarabia with mother Romania." - Declaration of the Country Council renouncing the conditions formulated in the act of Union of 27 March 1918, issued on 27 November 1918/10 December 1918.
BUKOVINA: The Romanians of Bukovina formed the General Congress of Bukovina (a govnerment) and shortly after declared union with Romania.
THE DECLARATION OF UNION: "Today, when after huge efforts and sacrifices on the part of Romania and its powerful and noble allies, the principles of fairness and humanity for all nations were enthroned in the world, and when after crushing blows the Austro-Hungarian monarchy was shaken to its foundations and collapsed and all the nations handcuffed within it gained their right to self-determination, the first thought of liberated Bukovina goes to the Kingdom of Romania, to which we have always linked the hope of our liberation. Therefore, we, the General Congress of Bukovina, embodying the supreme power of the country and being invested alone with the legislative power, in the name of national sovereignty, decide: The unconditional and eternal union of Bukovina, in its old borders up to Ceremuș, Colacin and Dniester, with the Kingdom of Romania.” - The declaration of union of Bukovina with Romania, 15/28 November 1918.
Bukovina was the smallest of these regions, which could explain why they didn't have pretentions like Bessarabia and Translyvania.
TRANSYLVANIA: The Romanians of Transylvania and Banat formed the General Assembly and voted for a conditional union with Romania, the Germans of Transylvania were also in favor of union with Romania. Unlike Bessarabia's conditional union, Transylvania was not to become an autonomus region, at least not permanently, as they requested temporary autonomy until the new Romanian state is ogranized and that they will have a say in the constitution of the new Romanian state.
DECLARATION OF UNION: "Resolution of the National Assembly of Alba Iulia from November 18/December 1, 1918. I. The National Assembly of all Romanians from Transylvania, Banat and Hungary, gathered through their entitled representatives to Alba-Iulia on November 18/December 1, 1918, decrees the union of those Romanians and all territories inhabited by them with Romania. The National Assembly proclaims especially the inalienable right of the Romanian nation to the entire Banat between the rivers Mureș, Tisza and Danube. II. The National Assembly reserves to the above territories provisional autonomy until the meeting of the Constituent Assembly elected on the basis of universal vote. III. In this regard, as fundamental principles in the composition of the new Romanian State, the National Assembly proclaims the following: Full national freedom for all peoples living together. Each people will be instructed, administered and judged in its own language by individuals within it and each people will receive the right of representation in the legislatures and in the government of the country in proportion to the number of individuals that make it up. Equal justification and full autonomous freedom of confession for all denominations in the State. Achieving a perfect democratic regime in all areas of public life. The public vote, direct, equal, secret, on communes, proportional, for both sexes, aged 21 at the representation in communes, counties or parliament. Perfect freedom of the press, association and assembly, free propaganda of all human thoughts. (...)" - The Resolution of the National Assembly of Alba Iulia of 1st of December 1918.
MY SUGGESTION IS TO take the idea of the mini-states before the Great Union and implement it in Kaiserreich with Bukovina and Transylvania. I assume Bukovina wouldn't have demands like it didn't have in real life. But Transylvania could have its own demands for unification with Romania.
Additionally, the Transylvanian Romanians or Austria-Hungary could take steps towards the liberation of Transylvania from Hungary. Here is what happened in real life:
One of the major causes for the gathering of the National Assembly in Transylvania, was the declaration of Alexandru Voida-Voevod (he is the leader of Transylvania in Kaiserreich) to the Budapest Parliament on 12 October 1918:
"The Executive Committee of the Romanian National Party of Transylvania and Hungary, as a political body of the Romanian nation in Transylvania and Hungary, finds that the consequences of the war justify the centuries-old claims of the Romanian nation to full national freedom. On the basis of natural rights, that each nation can decide its own fate, alone and free, a right that is now recognized by the Hungarian government through the armistice proposal to the monarchy, the Romanian nation in Hungary and Transylvania now wants to make use of this right and consequently demand for her the rights too, free from any foreign entanglement, to decide for herself to place herself among the free nations. The national body of the Romanian nation in Hungary and Transylvania does not recognize the right of this parliament and this government to consider themselves as representatives of the Romanian nation in order to represent at the general peace congress the interests of the Romanian nation in Hungary and Transylvania, for defending its interests. it can entrust only factors designated by its own national assembly.
Apart from the bodies delegated by the national assembly or elected from among it, therefore by the Executive Committee of the Romanian National Party, no one can be entitled to deal with and decide on matters relating to the political situation of the Romanian nation. All decisions and agreements, which would be taken and made without the approval of these bodies, we declare as null and void, which does not bind the Romanian nation in the first place. The Romanian nation living in the Austro-Hungarian monarchy waits and demands, after many centuries of suffering, the assertion and capitalization of its rights, unmoved and inalienable, to full national life." - Written by Vasile Goldis and spoken by Alexandru Voida-Voevod
And Vasile Goldis' speech during the National Assembly in Alba Iulia, on 1st of December 1918, where they voted whether they should join Romania or not:
"(...) For centuries the Romanian people, the true and legitimate owners of the land that had once been Roman Dacia, was considered a foreigner and a slave on its ancestral land. And when, after centuries of suffering in the far west, from the sweet latin sister, who steps at the head of the nations through the light of perfection, the spirit of freedom, equality and brotherhood, the new world, has arrived in our mountains. Our old oppressors were twinned with the Emperor, whom they had dethroned, with the Emperor, for whom we had shed our blood in faith, and these two powers enslaved us again. The grieving shadow of the king of the mountains, of our dear Avram Iancu, remains forever the classic proof of the legendary Habsburg ingratitude. Against our will, he united our Transylvania with the Hungarian Country and through a false constitutionalism they took our freedom of culture, abolished us politically, our churches served their tendency of oppression and made our economic progress impossible, through which we could have defended ourselves against the invasion of foreign hordes on the land of our parents.
In these times, we looked with tender love at our brothers in the east, who had begun to withdraw from the plague of barbarian times. They also felt a common origin in the rays of light received from the west, the national consciousness committed in 1859 the union of the Romanian principalities under the good and enlightened Cuza-Voda, and the blood shed again so bravely against the pagans in 1877 shook the last chain between Romania and Constantinople and on 10th of May 1881, Carol of Hohenzollern placed on his head the royal crown of free and independent Romania.
But we did our duty as citizens of Hungary and faithful subjects of the Habsburg-Lorraine dynasty. We believed that, our long patience and faith for the homeland and the throne, would eventually soften the hearts of the powerful and offer us, in the interest of the monarchy, a little national life and the conditions for cultural and economic progress. Our expectations were in vain. Oppression was intensifying. The oppressors now openly confess that their goal is a Hungarian national unitary state and that, therefore, we nationalists must abolish ourselves. We took part in the work of destruction and in the world war, which is now over, in the minds of our oppressors the meaning of this was to haste our destruction. Hundreds of thousands of Romanians still shed their blood for the homeland and the throne, and the homeland and the throne dragged the parents and brothers of these fighters into outrage, our homeland and time has decreed the death of the Romanian school, sent their minions to our church assemblies, prepared projects for our political destruction, began our economic ruin, imprisoned tens of thousands of Romanians, strangled the freedom of our nation and our right of expression, the homeland and the throne surrounded us and prepared our grave.
(...) All of the enlightened minds of the west have confessed their belief: This war was the war for the freedom of nations, not for the sake of this nation, but for the interest of the world, for the interest of mankind, which only in that image is able to step forward on the path towards its happiness. These ideas were baked by history and the apostle who preaches them is Wilson. Long live Wilson!" - Vasile Goldis, 1 December 1918
Vasile Goldis died in 1934 so he won't be in Kaiserreich, but he describes the feelings of Transylvanian Romanians here. They felt unappreciated and oppressed by the Throne (the Emperor) and homeland (Austria-Hungary) despite their loyality. They were given to the Hungarians instead of having an autonomous state of their own like the Hungarians have and it felt like Austria-Hungary wanted them dead. They felt that they had no economic, political and cultural freedom and that they had the Hungarians above them as overlords, which they did.
In my opinion, the Emperor was right not to give them autonomy, as far as Austria-Hungary's personal interests are concerned, as a country called Romania was right at the border. But this could lead to an interesting game mechanic:
Explain the reasoning behind this change: I believe it adds an interesting game mechanic to the Kaiserreich, that as far as I know (I'm not assuming this didn't happen, just that I don't know) there wasn't any other situation like that in the world. Maybe with America, California and Texas while they were under the Mexican Empire? But I don't know that history period so I can't tell for sure.
In precise terms, the interesting game mechanics are: mini-states of Transylvania and Bukovina that if they end up autonomus, will have their own demands both to the overlord state (Austria-Hungary) for loyality and to the Kingdom of Romania for union.
Additional context or comments:
Bukovina and Transylvania should start out as Romanian cores. It makes no sense not to.
A core is a region where the population is supportive of you and you don't need an occupying army. Needless to say, Romanians won't feel like living under occupation in Romania and feel the need to revolt against Romania.
I know the game splits in 1916 so the last valid censues will have a 34% Romanian population in Bukovina and 57% Romanian population in Transylvania.
It's true that from 1916 to 1936 a lot can happen, but it's difficult to assume that the population will suddenly drop in 20 years, it never happned in history unless there was forced relocaiton or genocide.
To make a conservative estimate, Romania should have at least 30% Romanian population in Bukovina by 1936 and at least 50% population in Transylvania by 1936.
To make a real life comparion, when Romania took Transylvania in 1918 the population was 25.5% Hungarian, after 20 years under the Kingdom of Romania the population was 24.4% Hungarian, there was hardly any drop in 20 years.
The focus "Greater Romania" should instead give you some political power or army bonuses national spirit, because the population is very happy that the Great Union happened, having this focus turn those regions into cores makes no sense even for an alternative history scenario. History turned out different, but humans are still humans, right? Why would a Romanian population feel the need to revolt against a Romanian state so that the Romanian state will need to send in the Romanian army to keep the Romanian population in check? This is how much sense that focus makes right now.
Transnistira should not be part of the "Greater Romania" focus. That is a region that was never considered an integral part of Romania (Bukovina, Bessarabia and Transylvania were considered by Romanians as integral parts of Romania long before World War I, long history), but Transnistria had nothing to do with it.
In real history, it was only a region that Romania took as compensation because Hungary took Northern Transylvania. And Ion Antonescu prefered to give up Transnistira only to have a chance at taking back Northern Transylvania via German arbitration, this is how much Romania cared about Transnistira. It could work as a "conquer this" focus, but nothing that takes the spotlight or is considered an integral part of Romania.
The region of West Banat, Alford and Carpathian Ruthenia were considered more of an integral part of Romania than Transnistira, because they used to be part of the Kingdom of Dacia and later the Voivodships of Gelou, Glad and Menumorut in the Middle Ages.
Romania claimed West Banat, Alford and Carpathian Ruthenia too in World War I. But there was no thought of Transnistira until it just happened that Romania was in a war with Russia and previously lost Northern Transylvania to Hungary that the idea of "maybe we can take this" came up to them.