Closed Sukhdeep2006 closed 6 years ago
bhajneet
commented
7 years ago Please re-submit what you believe to be the correct translation. Here is another example by Bhai Manmohan Singh:
"By pondering on God, man cannot have a conception of Him, even though he may ponder over lacs of times."
Some believe it should instead be "By washing/cleaning", is that what you're trying to fix? Whatever you think is correct, please let us know, and then we can have a dialogue.
Sukhdeep2006
commented
7 years ago Ritual purification, though million-fold, may not purify the mind. Source: Unconfirmed, but matches with Punjabi translation by Bhai Sahib Singh.
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times. Source :Singh Sahib Sant Singh Khalsa, MD
Simply by contemplating on God, we cannot understand Him, even though we may think hundreds of thousands of times. Source : Dr. Kulwant Singh Khokhar
bhajneet
commented
7 years ago Thank you.
The first one by Bhai Sahib Singh seems to be different from the other three. It looks like we're deciding between:
Thoughtfully one cannot understand, even after hundreds of thousands of thoughts.
Ritual purification does not purify the mind, even if performed hundreds of thousands of times.
I've always thought the second one is more correct, but the two translations have to do with differing concepts, thinking in the mind vs washing the body and mind. Not sure how to come to a consensus here.
bhajneet
commented
7 years ago I also don't know where the source is for the punjabi to english translation that is matching Bhai Sahib Singh, but here is an audio file of Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara (Daar Ji) (Maybe around 8m:45s), explaining the line. Perhaps this can help.
Sukhdeep2006
commented
7 years ago I always feel the translation from Bhai Sahib Singh Ji is the most authentic one and the same is reflected in punjabi in STTM too. So anything which goes inline with this seems more accurate to me.
My second source is Sant Singh ji Maskeen, and he explains the same thing.
Guru ji talk about the ritual bathing in the first line and about the mind/thoughts in the fourth line of this pauri.
ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥ ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥ ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥ ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ।
Ritual purification does not purify the mind, even if performed hundreds of thousands of times.
saintsoldierx
commented
7 years ago Bhai Jagraj Singh (Basics of Sikhi) also done a lot of research into this and he also states that “soch” is from the word “sucham”. Some also say it’s a rhetorical device but the meaning of sucham makes more sense in the context of what Guru Sahib was trying to say the yogis. I could also ask Bhai Pinderpal Singh tonight if you wish to get more clarification.
On May 10, 2017 at 10:41:38, Sukhdeep2006 (notifications@github.com) wrote:
I always feel the translation from Bhai Sahib Singh Ji is the most authentic one and the same is reflected in punjabi in STTM too. So anything which goes inline with this seems more accurate to me.
My second source is Sant Singh ji Maskeen, and he explains the same thing.
Guru ji talk about the ritual bathing in the first line and about the mind/thoughts in the fourth line of this pauri.
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ।
Ritual purification does not purify the mind, even if performed hundreds of thousands of times.
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Sukhdeep2006
commented
7 years ago I think we are in agreement here...the word Sochai is NOT for thinking in the first line, but it is for ritual bathing or the outer hygiene or Sucham.
Sukhdeep2006
commented
7 years ago 
sarabveer
commented
7 years ago http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,35628
I believe the English Translation is fine here.
tarunsingh5
commented
6 years ago @Sukhdeep2006 please sign up to submit changes to translations by following these steps:
https://khalisfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ShabadOS-Editor-Sign-Up-Instructions.pdf
will close this bug for now
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!
Veer Ji, I just come across the new version of STTM app and i found it even better than the previous versions. We have been using STTM 2.0 in gurdwara sahib for displaying the translations for the sangat. You are doing a great job. I also wanted to let you know that i have been looking for the line by line english translations over the web and i always come across one file which says translation by "Singh Sahib Sant Singh Khalsa". And when i refer to the first line, as I mentioned below, i tend to get confused with the english translation as this doesn't match with the punjabi translations available. Same is visible over the STTM app and website. The English and Punjabi translation does not match for this line. Can you please have this English translation verified and corrected, please. I feel concerned because when the translation of the very first line doesn't seem right it creates a confusion in the mind over the authenticity of the translation in publication.
I apologise if any of my words were wrong or hurting in any sense. You are doing a great job and we as sangat appreciate the sewa you are doing to the humanity.
ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥ ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ (ਭੀ) (ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਲ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਾਂ, (ਤਾਂ ਭੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ) ਸੁੱਚ ਰੱਖਣ ਨਾਲ (ਮਨ ਦੀ) ਸੁੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਹਿ ਸਕਦੀ । By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.