Kitisplode / minecraftMod-golemFirstStone

A Minecraft Mod to add the First of Stone golem from Minecraft Legends.
MIT License
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Remaining Legends Golem ideas #3

Open Ultimushadow opened 1 year ago

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

I figured I would shoot you some ideas for the last couple golems from Legends, obviously the big guys are cooler but the little ones could be useful too! I use a scale of low/decent/high for stats but I think the balance comes down to your implementation. Better yet, add config options in case people want to balance them differently!

Now, this is a stretch, but it would be cool to see the other mobs with their functionalities added as well, but they aren't golems... So, I suggest just making them golems anyways lol, this could be cool for a couple reasons I'll touch on in a bit.

These units would all be 1.5 blocks tall, and could be used by the other mobs against the player occasionally as well. Some Illager Golems in a Woodland Mansion/Pillager Outpost, Creeper Golems in Jungle Temples, Skeleton Golems in Fortresses, and Zombie Golems in ruined Villages/during the large zombie raids. They would have red eyes in their texture and could drop some lapis which is what I imagine you use as the item to craft the golems to reflect MC:L. Let me know what you think!

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

Hey there, with the introduction of all four small golem variants, I wanted to share some thoughts on the balance of the golems overall!

Firstly, dropping the First's health to 500 is a decent change, 1000 is very high and while other mods might potentially introduce enemies to take them out, vanilla does not. There's a couple things I noticed about the First's though that I think can improve the feel while playing, namely their ai. To start with, the First of Brick seems to only trigger when you've been attacked, which is useful but could be implemented to go into effect once an enemy is within range instead. Also, the Absorption effect is nice, but as this is a vanilla effect, it's easy to find instances where this no longer becomes helpful, like if the player has consumed an enchanted golden apple or another mod has granted the effect. I think instead, you could create a new "Brick Shield" entity, to be closer to MC:L. When a projectile hits the shield from the outside, it should flip its X and Z velocities but keep y the same. This avoids extra math needed to do true reflections and just sends the projectile towards the attacker. While inside the shield, you could give an attribute buff rather than a potion effect, as to not hit issues with other game mechanics. A small armor and armor toughness increase would be sufficient, I think. The First of Stone seemed pretty well balanced, but the big slam attack does have the issue of missing - to the point that Cobble Golems are actually more effective in melee. The First tends to pause when being pushed around and takes a lot of hits while charging up, and then when it slams, the damage drop-off is pretty serious, leading to underwhelming results, at least in my testing. I think that the First should have some sort of resistance while charging, and the hits should both do more damage and deal full damage within its range. While this seems like a hefty buff, I think it's merely bringing the First to what you actually intended. A Cobblestone Golem can take out a zombie without even getting hit, while the First takes multiple hits and has to swing several times. The First of Oak actually has a similar problem, it is just outclassed by Plank Golems. While I think the Plank Golems should be nerfed, I also think the First should be buffed - the damage is good, but it can't compete with the fire rate of Plank Golems. Also, for some reason, the First's projectiles seem very slow, and they also tend to miss, much more than Plank Golems do. I propose the damage is raised, the projectiles should move much faster if possible, and the piercing should be more significant (a second target takes maybe a heart or two). I think the idea behind the First is "sniper", but it does not quite hit the range, damage, or accuracy. If these values went up, maybe fire rate going down can compensate, but to be honest any lower and the Plank Golems will still be better. Edit I misunderstood the AOE and assumed it was piercing - honestly I think piercing might be the better bet since the AOE is barely any damage from my testing! The First of Diorite is cool and I love the little pawns, only one complaint which is it takes forever for that first batch to get up and going. I understand having a long cooldown, but I think the cooldown should work differently. It would check for the cooldown, and if it's been long enough, the First can get down and spawn immediately rather than waiting. Given every other attacking golem will jump on an enemy immediately, it's hard to justify bringing this First anywhere aside from the fact it looks awesome.

The smaller golems could use some balancing too, more nerf than buff here: Plank Golems shoot fast and do decent damage - I think they should deal less damage if they are going to shoot that fast, it's almost not even a fair fight for a majority of mobs. Their low health is great as is. Cobble Golems almost never get hit when attacking a melee mob bc of their knockback. I think they should deal less knockback, but I also think that their pathfinding could use a bit of an improvement due to them shoving each other around and most of them missing the mob. If more than three golems are locked onto an enemy, the extras are essentially wasted and should at least attempt to target another mob if they can. Grindstone Golems are by far the most in dire of a buff. They deal a single heart per hit, which is much too low to be useful. They may have been intended to compensate due to their charge being a debuff, but it doesn't stun like in MC:L. It only deals knockback, but this is made entirely useless because they take damage every time they charge into a melee enemy. The mob being farther away means nothing if they ram into them taking damage each time. They need invulnerability while charging to make them even close to useful, and either a damage buff or an actual stun to complement that, otherwise this golem will just never be used. Finally, Mossy Golems are very very powerful, I believe a longer cooldown is all they need though. As it is right now, with two of them in a group, your golems become extremely hard to kill due to the almost constant uptime of regen.

Lastly, I wanted to mention the controls. While I don't think the item implementation is the way to go in the long run, it's definitely a viable method and gets around keybind bloat. However, attacking mobs is rather obnoxious - the golems following you will not attack a mob unless you tell it to. This means a mob attacking you, or the other way around, will not proc them to any action, including the First of Brick. When you do tell them to attack, though, they wander and no longer follow you. This system is rather clunky and not the most intuitive, not to mention drastically reduces the usefulness of your golems (Especially the Firsts, who all need significant time to do anything noteworthy, which is not in their favor when the mobs are already closed in). At the very least, attacking/being attacked should proc the golems to defend the player without unbinding them from following. Another thing is that it's very difficult to direct your golems to an area, which is interesting given the way the attack item is pretty much already there. The whistle should be changed to the following: Right click will call, holding right click will end current tasks for nearby golems and call. Shift right click will release. Left click will deploy 1 of a selected golem type, holding left click will deploy all golem, shift left clicking will change golem type. I think this could also be used to put the mining/attacking onto the same item as well - attacking would be left click, mining would be right click. I don't see much use for throwing golems, but it is kind of funny, I would say to allow throwing the Firsts purely for the hell of it because it really isn't that useful otherwise I think the only other thing I found is that the golems are very chaotic when following the player. I wonder if it would be possible to give them a kind of "sub follow" target. The player could choose the order of golems to follow them, and the golems would then attempt to follow the golem type ahead of them rather than the player directly, one at a time for the first and two at a time for the regular golems. This seems pretty technical though, so I don't know if it would work very well, would definitely need some kind of custom ai. The player config would basically give each golem a value 1-8, and the golem would attempt to follow whatever golem is itself -1 until it finds a match (0 would be the player).

I should say, I do immensely appreciate the work put into the mod and it's a lot of fun having these guys in the game, this is by no means a demand, only a suggestion! Let me know if you have any questions about my findings

Kitisplode commented 1 year ago

Thank you so much for all this well-thought-out feedback! I will look over it and give some comments. I have been so focused on just developing the base functionality that i've barely thought about balancing much lol I do agree with all or most of your balancing thoughts, so i might start working on those soon For the dandori items, i was mostly inspired more by pikmin (hence the dandori name) rather than minecraft legends, which is why your followers will only ever attack specifically when you say they should. I agree that it is rather clunky and unsuited to what is currently available and will be switching it up for the most part. That's also the thought behind the dandori throw lol

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

Oh, that makes sense! I really enjoy this mod as MC:L was rather fun despite the overall lack of gameplay, I look forwards to seeing what you tweak and add to the project I enjoy play testing and game design so if you would like feedback on future features, I would be more than happy to contribute!

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

Hey there, I saw the updates to the mod and I wanted to say they're all very good! The Firsts feel the right level of powerful, the regular mobs are not op but still very useful, and the banner looks really good in game!

When it comes to features, the banner is nice, is there currently a way to set the golems to "Patrol" instead of "Wander"? Sometimes I would like them to defend a certain location without wandering off, which seems is their favorite activity lol Also, the terracotta golems don't want to leave me alone for some reason, even if I dismiss them they lock onto me again if I get near with the flag. I was also thinking you could utilize the Copper and Tuff golems as combat units, with the Copper golem giving a small shock to enemies that chained between them if they were close enough, and the Tuff golems taunting an enemy and then temporarily turning into an invulnerable statue before taking a hit and then running away to repeat the process. I was also also thinking about some synergies between golems (like the Mossy golem drenching mobs to take more damage from the chain shock, or mobs distracted by the Tuff golem get 50% more damage from a Grindstone hit since they weren't expecting it, etc) but that's definitely feature creep on my part πŸ˜… I love strategy games and making choices to boost effectiveness, if you're interested in at least hearing them out I can through out some more.

As far as balance goes I pretty much have no notes, besides the First of Diorite, as it is still lagging behind a lot of the other golems and does not quite hit the level the other Firsts are at. This is because while the spawning is a little faster, the limit to one does not distract enemies for long enough to avoid them dealing damage to the First. First of Oak can snipe mobs before they get close, Stone sends them flying into the air, even the regular golems can deal a ton more damage - and I think the fault isn't necessarily the First of Diorite's alone. The pawns are a good idea, I like the concept, but they are by far the least effective golem in the game. Their attack rate is slow, their attack range is small, their movement is unruly, their health and defense leave them dead in seconds, and they don't pull aggro off the First in time. I spawned 3 husks against all the other Firsts and three of each small golem, and (with the exception of the First of Brick and Mossy Golem) they all died very fast. The husks managed to take out over half the health of the First of Diorite in the same matchup, which tells me there's something very underwhelming in its implementation.

I have some suggestions to balance it back to where it should be (or at least, my interpretation of where it should be). In MC:L, the reason it worked was because the units it spawned were effective and actually defended it. I personally love the pawn idea and think you had a much better implementation in that regard, but as stated before they have little to no effect on the battle. I think you could fix this by doing a couple things:

Obviously my conclusions are taken from a one - three golem situation and not a large group of them, but to be honest any of these golems are broken in large enough numbers. I'm actually wondering now if you could implement a point tax, each golem type is worth a certain amount of points and the player can't surpass that limit until they level or earn some kind of upgrade. Perhaps the point limit is raised during a village raid, and if the player wins they get an item that raises their max points and therefore can start carrying around more golems, that kind of progression seems about right since you're defending villages. There's also some opportunity to make it collaborative, when multiple people are defending maybe there's a small flat boost to the reward you get per person, at the expense of a slightly harder raid. Either way, until there's a good way to address the multiple golem situation, I would suggest balancing them in a vacuum, and working on progression once you have everything the way you want it! Let me know what you think!

Kitisplode commented 1 year ago

I really super appreciate your insights and the time you've spent playtesting and brainstorming these out. Honestly, if i had an income right now, i'd want to pay you for this work lol

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

That's generous, but I really just enjoy good mod ideas and playing with mechanics πŸ˜„ coding and balancing is the hard part

Glad to hear about the patrol mode and terracotta pawns, I do like their goofy design and I would say that the mod benefits from having a silly hidden mob - not entirely useful but anyone who figures it out would get some joy from their discovery

My original idea for the Copper Golem was damage only, but now that I think about it maybe a weakness effect would be more apt since they just got shocked, I think the stun from the Grindstone covers movement disruption already right? Either way, I imagine the golem working like a wind-up toy, it has to run around a bit to build up charge (stay close to wherever the player has them positioned, but run in circles around that point) and then release a shock which can bounce between up to 5 enemies. The running around part would be purely visual though so if that's too hard to implement it could just stand still, but then it would get beat up too fast I think?

Re:Tuff Golems throwing their items, I actually thought about this too but found it may be a pain if they're holding something for legitimate decoration and a mob gets into the base or something. Even if they're not, giving them something like armor or a weapon would be actively detrimental if the item drops and the attacking mob picks it up lol, they'd be arming the hostiles My idea came from their ability to stand so still they're essentially a statue, and I found the lack of a taunt in the current set up to be a bit difficult to reliably take out mobs before they beat the shit out of whoever they're locked on to (like the poor First of Diorite lol). I wonder then, if when the player sends them to a location in patrol mode, the Tuff Golem will periodically cause nearby mobs to lose their target? I know how to do this with datapacks, or at least I'm pretty sure since I believe the mob keeps track of its current target in it's nbt? but I don't know if you would use the same method here

Synergies are fun, I'll try to pair up each golem with one other golem type so they all get something, but, I wonder if you could make a little skill selection and have the play choose which synergies they want, then we could come up with something for every pairing (but also code one for every pairing so mayyybe not πŸ˜‚ )

I definitely like their little hops and sounds but yeah, unfortunately they can't effectively throw hands if they don't have any πŸ˜… I know that third idea was a little out there compared to the other two which were just reskins, so if you were looking for an easier implementation perhaps they just give a Strength buff similar to the Mossy Golem's Regen buff?

Oh I think that the flames idea is great and warrants its own list of inspiration, here's what I came up with:

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

Ohhhh that's a lot longer than I thought it was going to be πŸ˜… welp

Ultimushadow commented 1 year ago

Played through with the recent changes, here's my take on it:

Super excited to use this mod in my pack, if the wandering patrol is something you really want to stick with would you consider a sentry option in config? Thank you again for all the work you put in, I hope people enjoy the mod so far!

Kitisplode commented 1 year ago

I do need to figure out configs at some point, it'll be helpful probably. I think you can send all golems to the same deploy position if you don't have any golem type selected maybe and then hold right click? I will consider adding a different wander goal when they're in patrol mode. I do kinda like having them wander around a little, but it is a little wacky having them constantly change their minds like that lol Will consider a TP feature.