Extend range of zigbee network using CC2531/CC2530 routers

[james-fry]

The CC2531 does not seem to have as good range as my Xiaomi hub. Using same type of Xiaomi sensor (new generation reed switch sensor - MCCGQ11LM) I found that the CC2531 is failing to receive updates, where the Xiaomi does. Hub and CC sniffer are in same room ~1.5M apart. The reed sensors are in a room in floor below next to each other. (Neither network has active/powered devices to act as repeater)

Is there any way to improve range?

1) I have the dongle on a USB extension to move it away from the metal of my VM server, but I think I can use a longer extension to get further away from the metal...

2) I can add powered device (e.g.) bulb as a repeater. Problem with this is that bulbs do get hard switched off sometimes. I dont have any zigbee sockets.

3) There are CC2531 devices with a RF front end and external antenna with supposedly higher range. e.g. this one But these cost more + less easy to program (need to solder header) + not sure if firmware is compatible with the RFX2401C PA chip

Anything else?

[Koenkk]

@basmeerman pairing problems mostly occur because the old zigbee network is still online, e.g. do you have any bulbs powered which are not in the new network?

Also when a get Cannot get node descriptor happens... it helps to leave it as is for a few minutes as sometimes it manages to pair after some time.

[h4nc]

@koenkk Do you know that someone sells modified CC2531’s with the coord firmware on it.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.at%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F113356442583

The reason why I ask this is I have some experience with soldering, I also like it a lot and I also thought about modding some CC2531 and putting them on eBay for people that don’t like or are not able to solder (also they don’t need to flash the device). Also putting the sma to the corner is better.

I would also make a 3D printed Case for it to make it look more professional.

Is it allowed to do this from your side (flashing your firmware on a device that will be sold).

[Koenkk]

@h4nc yes, fine with me.

One important thing to note is that it's not my or zigbee2mqtt's firmware. The firmware belongs to Texas Instruments, I only compiled it with some optimized parameters.

[h4nc]

@koenk I see, is it open source? What do think, would selling those make issues with TI? I could also put it on eBay without the firmware, but I think people that don’t want to solder also prefer not to flash (= at least work with it as possible).

[Koenkk]

@h4nc I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. The code is opensource but you need to accept a license which you can see when downloading Z-STACK-HOME.

[h4nc]

@Koenkk I thought maybe you have already dealed with that concern. So I asked you. Thanks!

Why is a firm like TI interesseted in puppishing and developing a free firmware for those devices? Are there genuine cc2531 and the cheap ones from China are fake?

[Koenkk]

Otherwise their chips wont be sold, I dont think the chinese one are fake.

The reason for the license seems to be of United State laws (e.g. no export to Iran blablabla..)

[h4nc]

@Koenkk sry I have another question.

When I flash those coordinators at home (= in my network) will the newly flashed routers directls get another pan_id and would this affect the experience of users buying those modded devices?

[james-fry]

This kind of discussion about selling things based on open source (software, 3d models, hardware designs, PCBs etc) comes up quite often. From what I have seen, in general people are happy for others to provide a manufacturing or support business based on their designs as long as credit is given. I.e. by all means charge someone for: flashing service, modifying the PCB, printing the case, listing on ebay/etsy, posting and packing etc - all these are costing you time and materials - but give credit to the software author, to 3d model designer on thingiverse etc.

[james-fry]

Also I agree with @Koenkk that TI is providing firmware code examples to sell silicon.

[h4nc]

Thanks for your input. Thats the reason why I wanted to ask @Koenkk if it’s ok with him.

As I currently make my own Case for a CC2531 with antenna, I will not have to ask someone at thingeverse for allowance.

So I think I’m fine. Maybe I’ll also order some CC2530 and put them in my minimal case (See docs). In this case you have to des older the pinheaders to get it as compact as possible.

[creativtransfer]

@Koenkk What's new in the Feb. 6th update of your Z-Stack-firmware?

[Koenkk]

@Koenkk sry I have another question.

When I flash those coordinators at home (= in my network) will the newly flashed routers directls get another pan_id and would this affect the experience of users buying those modded devices?

As long as you don't start them with zigbee2mqtt, no.

[Koenkk]

@Koenkk What's new in the Feb. 6th update of your Z-Stack-firmware?

There is no new firmware (still 20190109). In the commits of 6th February I added the SBL variant of the firmware (which can be flashed without the debugger, but first requires your to flash it once with the debugger). See #320

[h4nc]

@Koenkk What’s the advantage of flashing without a debugger (if you have to flash it one time with it). In this case you have to have a debugger. Or does this address people who bought a flashed device?

[creativtransfer]

Do you have a link for me, where I can download an up-to-date version of the linux sbl_tool.bin ?

[creativtransfer]

@h4nc Once flashed, you can do updates without the cc-debugger. Ideally, from now on you can update the device from the shell while keeping it plugged in your raspberry... Hence a version of the sbl_tool.bin compiled for raspbian or armbian would be great.

[h4nc]

@creativtransfer That's good news. Will or is this also possible for hassio users? Do we already have a "how to flash without debugger" documentation. So I can see this like an OTA-Update right?

[creativtransfer]

As long as you have access to the shell, you can use if for any platform. You'll be able to flash your stick from the commandline this way:

$ ./sbl_tool.bin firmware.bin /dev/ttyACM0

[h4nc]

But flashing it this way won't save you from re-pairing the divices if you don't follow these steps, right?

https://koenkk.github.io/zigbee2mqtt/information/flashing_without_re-pairing.html

[pixeldoc2000]

I want to improve the Documentation and create a Wiki Page, so I've made a pinout.

@kirovilya Please check if correct:

[kirovilya]

@pixeldoc2000 Yes, right.

[fred-c1]

just FYI about grounding pins on GBAN (or other CC2530+RF front end) unit: https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/issues/794

[pixeldoc2000]

I've switched from a CC2531 to the GBAN GB2530-S Stick with the Mod Wires and Coordinator firmware version: '20190109'.

Everthing is working ok for some days now. The reported link qualitiy of the devices is better than with the CC2531.

I will test the GBAN without the mod wires and report back.

[creativtransfer]

@pixeldoc2000

The reported link qualitiy of the devices is better than with the CC2531. Was that a virgin CC2531 or did you modify the antenna?

[pixeldoc2000]

@creativtransfer It was an unmodified CC2531.

[creativtransfer]

With the above mentioned antenna mod, the reported signal levels are approximately twice the value compared to an unmodified module. Is yours such a module? https://de.aliexpress.com/item/CC2530-CC2531-ZIGBEE-RF-TO-USB-transparent-serial-port-ZigBee-digital-transmission-equipment-industrial-grade/32844377123.html

[pixeldoc2000]

With the above mentioned antenna mod, the reported signal levels are approximately twice the value compared to an unmodified module.

Sounds great. I did find the Antenna Mod after i orderd my GBAN Stick. But i ordered some SMA Connectors i will give it a try at some point.

Is yours such a module? https://de.aliexpress.com/item/CC2530-CC2531-ZIGBEE-RF-TO-USB-transparent-serial-port-ZigBee-digital-transmission-equipment-industrial-grade/32844377123.html

It's probably from the same Manufacturer GBAN. They sell two models:

• I have the GB2530-S (CC2530 + RFX2401)
• There is also a GB2530-H (CC2530 + CC2591).

Most chinese sellers don't specifiy the exact Model they are selling.

[pixeldoc2000]

CC2531 SMA Connector Test: It's almost a perfect fit :-)

5x cost about 4€ shipped on eB*y from China to Germany.

2.4 GHz Antennas are also available on eB*y or you can use any 2,4 GHz Antenna with RP-SMA Connector (old WIFI AP for example).

EDIT: Picure shows SMA Connector, but usually we need a RP-SMA Connector!

[creativtransfer]

Don't forget to post some pictures when you have finished your mod :)

[fred-c1]

Be careful about "SMA" vs "RP-SMA" connectors Most "wifi routers" and "zigbee" antennas are RP-SMA (RP=Reverse Polarity) Pictures => "SMA vs RP-SMA" in Google

[pixeldoc2000]

Be careful about "SMA" vs "RP-SMA" connectors Most "wifi routers" and "zigbee" antennas are RP-SMA (RP=Reverse Polarity)

You are right, should have checked it before...! I have SMA Connectors, but all my Antennas are RP-SMA. I guess I'll have to order some RP-SMA Connectors... :-(

EDIT: We want this...

THX!

[tradenet]

@james-fry @ryanbeaton Yes, 5 pin header use for ccdebugger (look at description on Aliexpress). Cable in complect exists. Hi, can you confirm the programming header orientation. ie. blue to ground? As it's not soldered in. I haven't soldered in years. :-D I guess I'll have to brush up on that.

[ryanbeaton]

No need to solder you can just hold it in. That said I didn’t get the cable supppied so used my own. I’m sure a posted a photo of my dodgy looking setup somewhere

[ryanbeaton]

Here: https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/issues/52#issuecomment-440214563

[tradenet]

Oh my it’s like really loose. This brings back memory’s of our assemblies of internet dialup equipment in the days. Oops now I am dating myself.

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 6:50 PM Ryan Beaton notifications@github.com wrote:

No need to solder you can just hold it in. That said I didn’t get the cable supppied so used my own. I’m sure a posted a photo of my dodgy looking setup somewhere

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/issues/52#issuecomment-472672639, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAHmctctugoMPq38oekv7HnwfGTcs4kWks5vWarSgaJpZM4UFCVB .

[creativtransfer]

Where can I download the SBL-Tool (sbl_tool.bin) compiled for the raspberry pi?

[Pascal2708]

I also want to ad an antenna to my CC2531. So which parts did you use? Maybe some links to Ebay or Alixpress? Thanks

[creativtransfer]

First, you decide if you want SMA or RP-SMA. Then you buy the socket and Antenna accordingly.

If you already have an antenna e.g. from a wifi-router which use mostly RP-SMA, you'll need these RP-SMA sockets: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bHy62nTi

Or, if you want SMA, use these sockets: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bC3q4Yv6

Here's a suitable antenna which is available with both socket types: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c4MtMi9E

[creativtransfer]

Here's another one, also available in both flavours: http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bzrdWkyo Or the same as above, only in black and RP-SMA for less than 1 US$ http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bPewOTNe

[Pascal2708]

Thank you for the information. Is more dBi better? Would it be possible to use this antenna or is the power of the CC2531 to weak: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/Dlenp-2-4-ghz-Antenne-Wireless-1-st-cke-WIFI-Antenne-SMA-Stecker-Booster-Universal-Verst/32852976268.html?spm=a2g0x.12010108.addToCart.2.6f84273045VnPd&pvid=a7a773d2-eb94-43f4-9351-72b9136edea8&gps-id=pcDetailCartBuyAlsoBuy&scm=1007.12908.99722.0&scm-url=1007.12908.99722.0&scm_id=1007.12908.99722.0

[creativtransfer]

More dBi aka more gain is always better, but with regard to this antenna you'll likely experience the increased gain only if you use this antenna in open space.

Also, antenna gain comes comes at the cost of a directivity. In the case of an omnidirectional antenna such as this one, the radiation pattern becomes increasingly flat. In reality, this may lead to decreased range/signal for devices e.g. not on the same floor.

Sure, you can use this bulky antenna as well. But I think there will not be much - if any - advantage over the smaller ones linked above. I tried a couple different antennas and this is my personal experience. Actually, I am using the short / cheap one since it exercises the smallest load on the USB stick.
Considering the price, why not buy a couple of different sized antennas and try which one gives you the best range at your individual location?

[tradenet]

How did you fasten the adapters to the board?

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 11:52 AM creativtransfer notifications@github.com wrote:

More dBi aka more gain is always better, but with regard to this antenna you'll likely experience the increased gain only if you use this antenna in open space.

Also, antenna gain comes comes at the cost of a directivity. In the case of an omnidirectional antenna such as this one, the radiation pattern becomes increasingly flat. In reality, this may lead to decreased range/signal for devices e.g. not on the same floor.

Sure, you can use this bulky antenna as well. But I think there will not be much - if any - advantage over the smaller ones linked above. I tried a couple different antennas and this is my personal experience. Actually, I am using the short / cheap one since it exercises the smallest load on the USB stick. Considering the price, why not buy a couple of different sized antennas and try which one gives you the best range at your individual location?

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[creativtransfer]

You mean the SMA-socket? I soldered it, as shown in https://hackaday.io/project/163505-cc2531-usb-adapter-antenna-mod

[tradenet]

Oh great thanks for the link.

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 2:50 PM creativtransfer notifications@github.com wrote:

You mean the SMA-socket? I soldered it, as shown in https://hackaday.io/project/163505-cc2531-usb-adapter-antenna-mod

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[tradenet]

I also seen another variation here: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/zigbee2mqtt-getting-rid-of-your-proprietary-zigbee-bridges-xiaomi-hue-tradfri/52108/968?u=sales

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 2:50 PM creativtransfer notifications@github.com wrote:

You mean the SMA-socket? I soldered it, as shown in https://hackaday.io/project/163505-cc2531-usb-adapter-antenna-mod

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[creativtransfer]

I wouldn't do the wire mod. You may get loss through impedance mismatches.

[yozik04]

@pixeldoc2000 I will test the GBAN without the mod wires and report back.

Did you had a chance to test? Any conclusion?

[Pascal2708]

I also seen another variation here: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/zigbee2mqtt-getting-rid-of-your-proprietary-zigbee-bridges-xiaomi-hue-tradfri/52108/968?u=sales …

Is it important to cut the antenna on the board?

[creativtransfer]

Please forget the above linked modification! It is crap. Most likely, it'll make your signal even worse. This wires lead to impedance mismatches and reflections. The distance between your signal line and ground/shield are vital. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mismatch_loss