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Loxrie / genplus-gx

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32X support #65

Open GoogleCodeExporter opened 9 years ago

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Is it possible to support 32X games.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by csatec...@gmail.com on 26 Jan 2010 at 5:23

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
32x hardware would need to be emulated first, which is not an easy task 
considering
everything would need to be done from scratch or quite.

Also, it's very unlikely the Wii processor is fast enough to run Genesis + 32x 
add-on
at full speed. The two SH2 processors that need to be emulated are probably 
overkill
which mean the code would also need to be VERY optimized.

However, I leave this feature open as this project can easily be ported to other
platforms as well (including PC) and adding 32x emulation to this project is a 
nice
challenge. Don't expect anything to happen until a very long time though, in 
short
words, it's very unlikely you will ever play 32x games on your Wii.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 26 Jan 2010 at 6:03

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 27 Jan 2010 at 7:26

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 13 May 2010 at 2:29

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 25 May 2010 at 6:51

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
How comes the wii can handle n64 and sort of handle ps1 and Saturn but not 32x. 
 Very 
strange.

Original comment by jlenoco...@gmail.com on 30 May 2010 at 6:34

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
It's not strange, it's just that you are not understanding how emulators work.

As I said, the code would need to be heavily *optimized* to run both SH2 + 
other 32x
components + Genesis hardware at decent speed. N64/PSX emulators have dedicated 
CPU
cores that use advanced techniques like dynamic recompilation, without that they
won't be able to run games at decent speed. I don't say it's not possible to do 
that
for 32x emulation, just that it's a lot of work.

As far as I know, Saturn emulation on Wii is in a very preliminar state, you 
should
maybe try the Yabause port first and see how "fast" it runs without any 
optimization.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 30 May 2010 at 6:52

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
On a last note, contrary to Saturn (Yabause), PS1 (PCSX) or N64 (Mupen64), 
there is
actually no existing open-source AND portable 32x emulator, which means that I 
would
need to write everything (or quite) from scratch.

Don't forget that all these emulators you like on your Wii are just "ports", 
they
only exist because someone once did 90% of the work by writing a PC emulator and
sharing his code.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 30 May 2010 at 6:59

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Xbox1 and Wii both share a very similar CPU clock speed, and Xbox1 (which use 
gens)
is capable of run 32x at fullspeed, but I think it's harder to port these PC
emulators to the PowerPC architecture.

Unlike SegaCD, 32x is not worth the trouble, IMO.

Original comment by thiagoalvesdealmeida@gmail.com on 31 May 2010 at 5:04

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Gens is originally written in x86 assembly which xbox can execute & 
run just like any similary powered PC so this was not so much a 
challenge porting it to xbox... Porting it to Wii however would be pretty 
much like rewriting it completely.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 31 May 2010 at 6:38

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 17 Jan 2012 at 9:42

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
hey, if this ever gets implemented, the emulator would be an 8/16/32 bit 
emulator :) i hope ill see the day when i can play truxton, doom 32x or 
Knuckles chaotix on my Wii.

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 14 Apr 2012 at 8:07

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Your probably right, now that i think about it. 32x will be really hard :/ its 
probably why SEGA never included Knuckles Chaotix (which it was definitely 
intended to be included as evidenced by museum page 4) in Sonic Gems 
Collection.

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 6 May 2012 at 11:22

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
i remain optimistic now that ive seen what you have acomplished with Sega/Mega 
CD emulation. Even if the Wii cant run it at full speed, i dont think it should 
be abandoned completely. I really hope to see this in the future. someday....

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 11 Jun 2012 at 5:32

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
It'd be useful for anyone wanting to port Genesis Plus GX to the PC.

Original comment by cluster.phucking on 28 Jun 2012 at 10:13

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
It would be great to have 32x support. Since 32x titles may not ever see the 
light again, this would be a great decision.

I don't care if I don't get to run the games to their full potential either.

Original comment by diegojur...@gmail.com on 3 Sep 2012 at 12:54

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
just curious, with wiiu on market is 32x more doable for genplus-gx or wiiu is 
anther world ? I think that you can use genplus-gx now on wiiu using wii mode.

Original comment by ferran...@hotmail.com on 9 Jan 2013 at 10:43

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
If the Wii-Mode could take advantage of the Wii U's power, that is cirtianly 
possible. Unfortunately, it can't. For All intensive purposes, The vWii is a 
Wii with some slightly different IOS structure-- at least on the software side 
of things. 

I still want to see this done someday though. But honestly, at this point, i'm 
just greatful for the Mega CD support.

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 10 Jan 2013 at 3:22

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Even if WiiU homebrew is possible someday (which would probably require a new 
devkit and support libraries, which is not as "simple" as the move from gc to 
wii homebrew), i don't have a WiiU and do not plan to get one so it doesn't 
really change anything.

Also, target performance is not really the main factor, this emulator is 
portable and 32x could benefits to other platform including PC as well. Writing 
a 32x emulator requires lot of work and i simply do not have the time and 
motivation to do it.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 10 Jan 2013 at 9:57

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
I hope if I buy a WiiU I can play genesis-gx with vWII. When I've red that 
homebrew can be installed on wiiU and I thought that all Wii emulators can be 
played, but both told me that WiiU it's a diferent world. 
Maybe someone port genesis-gx to WiiU and write a 32x emulator or mix with 
MESS/MAME one when the team writes it. 
I hope with WiiU horsepower someone write a MAME port capable to play more 
games too.

Original comment by ferran...@hotmail.com on 11 Jan 2013 at 8:29

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
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GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Hi eke-eke, I know the work involved writing or porting, but I found the open 
source of Gens 2.14 and SH-2 Core, it includes the source code for windows, 
linux and commons plataforms.

The source code of 32x is included, maybe do you can take a look to the source 
code?, the URL is: 

http://www.gens.me/downloads.shtml

Sorry by my bad english, I´m spanish.

Original comment by albertot...@gmail.com on 7 Jun 2013 at 9:03

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Gens SH2 core is written in x86 assembly, they are not portable
SH2 core in C exist anyway, for example in MAME/MESS

But really, again, i do not need code or ideas or directions on how to add 32x 
support, this is something i will MAYBE add SOMEDAY when i will have the 
MOTIVATION to do it but like what i have done for Mega CD support, it's 
something i want to write from scratch, for me learning new stuff, not 
basically reusing existing code.

So, as much as i appreciate your interest for this emulator and your efforts in 
trying to help, it won't magically make it happen faster.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 7 Jun 2013 at 9:18

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Thanks for your reply eke-eke, I know your motivations and I understand you, I 
realy appreciate all your work in Wii scene, and I don´t ask you anything that 
you don´t want to do, was in case you were interested in it, nothing more, and 
I hope that someday, only if you want, you implement the 32X support in your 
excellent emulator.

32x is the only platform to implement in Wii to be the perfect platform for 
retro emulation, but is your decission and your hard work, thanks for your 
excellent emu, I´m very happy with it.

Original comment by albertot...@gmail.com on 7 Jun 2013 at 10:28

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GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Issue 386 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 8 Jul 2014 at 6:38

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
I just thought I would add this in to get people to look at a different path. 
Retroarch seems to have emulation for the 32x. It's listed on their site. 
Instead of pushing this emulator to have it, why not use an emulator that does. 
I love the Genplusgx, but have one emulator do everything is just too much. I 
play my favorite Wii emulators and use Retroarch for everything I don't already 
have. Retroarch is a compilation of core emulators. 3/4 down the list is 
Picodrive and it says it has 32x. I haven't tested it yet but I have used 
Retroarch for some games and plan to try out this one in particular. Check it 
out: http://www.libretro.com/index.php/ecosystem/

Original comment by punkydud...@gmail.com on 8 Jul 2014 at 8:10

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
@punkydud That'd be great if the core used for Genesis Emulation in RetroArch 
Wii wasn't GenPlusGX. I've tried both the Wii and PC versions of retroarch, and 
neither seem to allow 32x emulation.

I'll stick to kega on PC for my 32x needs.

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 8 Jul 2014 at 10:24

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
If you look on the link,  25th row down on the list,  it says picodrive which 
is another emulator besides genplusgx which is 7th on the list that is 
supported. Picodrive specifically says 32x emulation.

Original comment by punkydud...@gmail.com on 8 Jul 2014 at 10:33

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
That link is not completely accurate though, Picodrive's libretro port does not 
compile on Wii and is therefore not included with Retroarch Wii version.

The main reason is that Picodrive is mainly optimized for ARM systems and is 
hardcoded for little-endian CPUs, while the Wii uses a big endian Power PC CPU.

Anyway, even if you manage to fix endianness issues in Picodrive's sourcecode 
and get it running on Wii, you will still have to deal with unoptimized 32X 
emulation code and I would be very surprised if you could get any decent 
emulation speed.

Really (and once again), finding an open-source 32x emulator is not the issue 
here: in order to be able to emulate 32X on Wii at playable speed, man will 
need to write brand new code optimized for Power PC and probably do the same 
for the slowest parts in existing Genesis emulation code (68000, Z80, VDP, FM) 
like it is done in Picodrive for ARM or in Gens/Kega for x86.

This is not something I want to do myself because 1) I do not have the skills 
to write efficient Power PC assembly or dynamic recompilers and 2) this would 
make this emulator not portable anymore

A portable 32x core is something I still want to add someday in Genesis Plus GX 
(I started to write my own SH2 core some time ago but it's still very early 
work in progress), however I can tell you this is never going to run decently 
on systems that are relatively as weak as the Wii.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 9 Jul 2014 at 3:41

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
Sorry for the offtopic nature of this post, but anyway--

I want to see a port of GenPlusGX on PC, GUI included.

GenPlusGX has one of the most polished GUIs for an emulator out there as of 
now. I'd love to see all kinds of emulators, even on PC have something like 
this.

Are there any plans for anything like that Ekeeke?

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 9 Jul 2014 at 8:46

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
That is such a bummer that Retroarch hasn't ported the Picodrive to the Wii 
yet. I thought that was the whole point of Retroarch was to has all of these 
different core options. Well there are many PSX games and N64 games that work 
well on the Wiisx & Wii64. I believe that the sega 32x will run just fine. It's 
just a matter of doing a separate one like the Yabause/Saturn emulator. It will 
just have to be its own I guess. I am quite pleased with Genplus GX. The only 
confusing thing for some people is once you show the path for each system to 
the roms, you have to hit the home button to go back to a different system even 
though at the bottom it says use "B". I find myself re-setting the paths for a 
lot of friends. I wish the "B" button didn't undo the path.

Original comment by punkydud...@gmail.com on 10 Jul 2014 at 1:38

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
In comment 7 - I know ekeeke31 didn't want to do an emulator for the Sega32x 
because there wasn't one made for even the PC. I found out that this Picodrive 
is the one people are using for the PC. I found Pico on theoldcomputer dot com. 
I love that site. I get a lot of my stuff from there and they have taken all of 
their roms directly from the cartridge, disc or hardware themselves. I believe 
they have everything and it is well ran and a well loved site. They have Pico 
in there for Linux, Windows and MAC. I don't know how long its been around.

Original comment by punkydud...@gmail.com on 10 Jul 2014 at 1:58

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
There aren't any that are easily portable to the Wii due to the wii's limited 
hardware capability and architectural limitations.

There are several PC emulators capable of emulating 32x flawlessly. Kega Fusion 
and GENs being some notable examples.

It would be nice to have GenPlusGX ported to PC as I mentioned above.

Original comment by cheatfreak47 on 10 Jul 2014 at 2:05

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
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GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
@punkydudester: that comment was about portable 32x emulators and it was made 
before picodrive added 32x support. Stil, my main point remains: what you do 
not understand is that 32x emulation on Wii would require heavily optimized 
code for PowerPC, existing genesis/32x emulators portable code is not fast 
enough for Wii limited CPU, so simply porting picodrive to the Wii wouldn't be 
sufficient enough and a lot of things would need to be rewritten. That is what 
Wii64 and WiiSX did, they rewrote specific code to be optimized for the Wii 
hardware to be able to run games at a decent speed. And like i said, that is 
not something I am capable or willing to do. Hope that clear things up, people 
seem to have trouble understanding this.

@cheatfreak47: thanks but PC programming always appear to me as a nightmare 
with having to deal with drivers issues, APIs,  OS, etc... I also have no 
interest playing emulators on my laptop, although i agree this would be great 
to see someone porting the Wii GUI to Windows.

Original comment by ekeeke31@gmail.com on 10 Jul 2014 at 7:12

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
The one thing that I want to say about picodrive is that I have used it on a 
mips cpu based device, yes it does have 1ghz cpu, but it's obviously not using 
the dynarec as far as I know. It's just a plain-old compile of the system. The 
sega 32x games work perfectly AOK to me the game console is running at 320x240 
so that could definitely make a difference but it's not really optimized as far 
as I know.

It was on the gcwzero with a simple compile of it for mips.

http://www.gcw-zero.com/

that's the site for it, I was myself running it just as a plain-old thing and 
it seemed to run perfectly AOK to me, admittedly I don't know how much 
optimization that the compiler does on the wii for you guys. Also the saturn is 
slow-as-balls on most all platforms that don't support a dynarec, the mips jit 
is still slow on the psp. And it does have the same cpus although at a slightly 
higher clock speed, but the saturn also has a clusterfuck of other cpus all 
running in it so I imagine it's insanely hard to keep up with timing of the 
thing. I know that picodrive was heavily optimized for arm and thus is able to 
run on a potato of a rpi but I just thought that I'd add my own two cents, but 
yes the wii needs more horsepower. If the wii u was hacked/unlocked in vWii for 
all 3 cores or at least one at full speed I'm sure that it'd be enough for the 
system but I can understand why it's not high on your priority list.

Original comment by 133794...@gmail.com on 19 Nov 2014 at 6:26

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago 
I forgot to say that I know that the saturn is probably the hardest system to 
emulate right now due to all of the timing issues with the thing, and whilst 
32x and everything else would be nice I can see why it's not yet been done.

Original comment by 133794...@gmail.com on 19 Nov 2014 at 6:56