Suggestions for One Tagger

[Harmonizer-byte]

First of all, thanks for making such a program, it looks promising, and I hope your program will develop in the future. For my part, I will propose some changes that in my opinion will improve flow, interaction and become more intuitive.

I also like the fact that the track information is displayed in several floors, this allows all the track information to fit horizontally and vertically in a small window, a good solution because DJs usually have to scroll long lists left and right in other programs.

1. Add playlist tree and explorer on the left
2. Change the place to change the genre, with the ability to create a genre-subgenre
3. Now the mechanism for saving a tag to a file is not entirely clear, it would be nice to add some kind of visual element that would confirm that the tag data was saved in the file.
4. Delete the tag editor tab, it looks like an extra menu from the top, a link on the track itself and left-right arrows to switch tracks will be enough
5. Stars, move to the track itself, this will not lose the convenience of tagging, but will allow you to place the browser on the left.
6. Make the emotion point a pop-up separate window, with a large number of different emotions and states, I really like the idea with emotions, I would like to have a list of emotions for choosing similar to this one, the number of possible emotions for one track can be limited to three, this will be enough Https://myenglishtutors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/list-of-emotions.jpg
7. When you select in the tree of directories and playlists, show all attached files in sub folders (like crates in serato)

[Harmonizer-byte]

4. Delete the tag editor tab, it looks like an extra menu from the top, a link on the track itself and left-right arrows to switch tracks will be enough

[Harmonizer-byte]

5. Stars, move to the track itself, this will not lose the convenience of tagging, but will allow you to place the browser on the left.
6. Make the emotion point a pop-up separate window, with a large number of different emotions and states, I really like the idea with emotions, I would like to have a list of emotions for choosing similar to this one, the number of possible emotions for one track can be limited to three, this will be enough Https://myenglishtutors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/list-of-emotions.jpg
7. When you select in the tree of directories and playlists, show all attached files in sub folders (like crates in serato)

[Harmonizer-byte]

I also like the fact that the track information is displayed in several floors, this allows all the track information to fit horizontally and vertically in a small window, a good solution because DJs usually have to scroll long lists left and right in other programs.

[bascurtiz]

Thank you for suggestions.

We made Quick Tag with an idea in mind, that worked (see https://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=95550&s=5bec1120f4fd38e38c998074417910d9&p=766858&viewfull=1#post766858). It should show a diversion between mood, energy, genre and other characteristics. Hence we have choosen the layout as it is right now. Also it has to be quick and direct to tag. And fit on anyone's screen (so minimal at 1280x720).

1. By implementing your suggestion to add the path on the left side in Quick Tag, the Mood and Energy will completely be removed. That's not an option. Also consider we are trying to make it all fit on every users screen (so a minimal of 1280x720 resolution). Without making it feel crampy.

2. Quick and direct tag doesn't align with sub-menu's to click a certain subgenre or mood from. If you have a specific genre in mind, you could just replace all Genre with these specific subgenres and they show up at the bottom to click instantly (or use a shortkey). Same for mood, it will be indirect, instead of direct access (and therefor quick).

3. The moment u hit CTRL-S it will show the tags are been saved (bottom center). This also show when you go to the next song, by either using the keyboard arrows (up/down) or clicking a different track in the list in Auto Tag.

4. Edit Tags is indeed an extra tab. This way it becomes more versatile, when you want to check, not only what Quick Tag has written. But also what the state of your untouched tracks are, or what Auto Tag/Audio Features has filled in to review.

5. I like the idea to put stars inside the list, but I'm not sure that is possible. Have to ask Marekkon5.

6. We have chosen to make mood a one entry only. This helps you to really try to catch the overall vibe/mood of a song, what is most prominent. Otherwise, this might get cluttered and looses its value. If you however want to go into more detail, you can always use the custom characteristics on the right to go further, whether that's Situation, Instruments or Vibe, that's totally up to the user, since u can change that all the way to your likings.

7. See 1.

[Harmonizer-byte]

Thank you for suggestions.

We made Quick Tag with an idea in mind, that worked (see https://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=95550&s=5bec1120f4fd38e38c998074417910d9&p=766858&viewfull=1#post766858). It should show a diversion between mood, energy, genre and other characteristics. Hence we have choosen the layout as it is right now. Also it has to be quick and direct to tag. And fit on anyone's screen (so minimal at 1280x720).

1. By implementing your suggestion to add the path on the left side in Quick Tag, the Mood and Energy will completely be removed. That's not an option. Also consider we are trying to make it all fit on every users screen (so a minimal of 1280x720 resolution). Without making it feel crampy.

2. Quick and direct tag doesn't align with sub-menu's to click a certain subgenre or mood from. If you have a specific genre in mind, you could just replace all Genre with these specific subgenres and they show up at the bottom to click instantly (or use a shortkey). Same for mood, it will be indirect, instead of direct access (and therefor quick).

3. The moment u hit CTRL-S it will show the tags are been saved (bottom center). This also show when you go to the next song, by either using the keyboard arrows (up/down) or clicking a different track in the list in Auto Tag.

4. Edit Tags is indeed an extra tab. This way it becomes more versatile, when you want to check, not only what Quick Tag has written. But also what the state of your untouched tracks are, or what Auto Tag/Audio Features has filled in to review.

5. I like the idea to put stars inside the list, but I'm not sure that is possible. Have to ask Marekkon5.

6. We have chosen to make mood a one entry only. This helps you to really try to catch the overall vibe/mood of a song, what is most prominent. Otherwise, this might get cluttered and looses its value. If you however want to go into more detail, you can always use the custom characteristics on the right to go further, whether that's Situation, Instruments or Vibe, that's totally up to the user, since u can change that all the way to your likings.

7. See 1.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

Interestingly, I've already seen your "quick tagging" plugin and even tried it before. The thoughts that you wrote on the techtools forum are very close to me. I also wrote to you because I liked what has already been done in your program.

1. The idea that the marking tools should be located at a distance of one click is something that I myself also support, but I think that the location on the left of the directory tree is the standard of all programs that work with files (any), and since you have Energy and Mood on the left, as I have already shown in my layout, you can safely abandon the energy on the left and set this parameter right on the track itself. As for the mood, you can place it on top of the program.

2. Genre from below. Firstly, there are only 10-15 genres posted there, and if I have 80 of them? Secondly, having a long list of subgenres is also impractical, so in the case of genre, I think a drop-down menu is a good solution, or at least better than the way it works now. Speed does not suffer critically, but deep functionality appears in the form of subgenres. Ideally, I would like such a list of genres and subgenres in the program as here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_music_genres

6. As for the mood, then perhaps you are right.

Have you ever thought about creating your own database of tags that DJs can use in your program? I looked through the sites last.fm, brainz, discogs, and they look pretty weak in implementation. For example, such useful tags as label, mood, genre, instruments, situation, energy and others are not presented in good quality in any of the above services. It would be great to click on the genre and see user statistics, which is the most frequent parameter set by other DJs. For example, a DJ clicks "get genre statistics" on this track among users and can see something like: Deep House 67.7% Electro House 23% Slap House 11% and choose the appropriate option for himself. I think that thanks to your personal database, your service program could significantly increase the level of interaction with a decent implementation. It would also be convenient if it were possible to request information separately for each tag.

[bascurtiz]

Glad we're on the same page, although differ on some notes =)

1. So yeah, one-click-distance it is. The directory tree is 1 click away, or drag and drop your folder or playlist into Quick Tag. This way we don't have to add it, since the UI will become cluttered on low resolution. And since it is standard, it's in Edit Tag already. The energy star rating in the list I asked Marekkon5, and he's willing to add it. The mood - same counts for your statement on 2. If we put that on top instead of on the left side.

2. Yep, the idea is to click or shortcut key your main genre. U can add as many as u want (depending on your screen resolution size whether it will show all) If you want subgenres, fill them in on the right side, and make a new custom section and set it to write to Genre field. Drop-downs isn't direct, so let's not.

The idea is interesting to collect data from the users, to show a certain value like Genre and how others have determined it for this particular track. But we're not as big as Discogs for example lol. Also, what for example ''hard house'' is for you, can be totally different for me. Taxonomy is at stake here. Also consider this is a free app, and to make such work, we need a server to collect and share the data amongst users. Which once again only would work, if u have a big ass userbase. We like to keep it free.

[Harmonizer-byte]

@bascurtiz @Marekkon5 You have already implemented the search for characteristics of the tracks in the program, how about doing a search inside one tagger among the tracks according to the specified characteristics? How does it work in https://dubolt.com/

[bascurtiz]

Cool site to discover possible tracks to mix a certain track with! How would u see this implemented in One Tagger though? Like a new tab Discovery?

In the end, it's about playing these tracks in your DJ software, so end goal, is to make (smart) playlists in there based on certain values imo. Or simply search for certain values within the search bar of your DJ app.

But do tell, how you would see it fit.

[Harmonizer-byte]

A new Discovery tab would be a great feature. As for me, I've been using the dubolt service for about two years, and I've found a lot of suitable music when I need to find certain tracks in mixes. It would be cool to search in spotify for these parameters, as well as for an Artist, similar artists, year of release, decades (for example, show me techno tracks of the 90s), labels and similar labels, and most importantly genres, because the Spotify does not have a lot genres in tags. Therefore, I suggest that you make your database like discords or brainz, and make it more advanced, in which DJs will participate. But to begin with, it will just be a good tool to search for tracks by criteria, the ability to preview a track and save the resulting playlist to your spotify library. Imagine that you take a description of the artists, the year of release from iTunes. Then the label, similar artists from last.fm, the mood from Another site, genre from users and what is missing will be saved in its own database. I see it as a hybrid database that will allow you to organize the data that DJs will really use. And of course, parameters such as situation, instruments, location (intro, peak, build up)I understand that a lot of work needs to be done in the database to make it work as it should, but I think it's worth it. You can be the first in this

[Harmonizer-byte]

@bascurtiz are you on the forum tractor snowseals or Marekkon? I found your post about the color of keys in the browser, it would be cool to make a dynamic change in the color of the key based on 7 steps in the key. And also visually show the key in the tags. He's nowhere to be seen in one tagger right now.

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/adjacent-keys.357365/page-2

[Harmonizer-byte]

[bascurtiz]

1. Just for the sake of pumping all features into One Tagger would be great, but this already exist in this website right?

2. I thought about a Discovery tab, but the idea is to tag all your tracks with One Tagger, and then afterwards, you have values inside your DJ s/w which allows you to do the filtering already, like smart playlist creation, based on certain values read out from tag x, y or z.

3. Spotify in fact has a shitload of genres , but they are based on the artist, so not ideal (and too much if u ask me).

4. Database we won't do, this needs a server -> money -> we like to keep this app free. But the idea is nice for a commercial product.

5. The keys from any platform out there are mediocre (Beatport,Traxsource,Beatsource) to bad (Spotify) actually. See my indepth comparison: https://www.reddit.com/r/DJs/comments/rn2wu5/key_detection_comparison_2021/ So I'm strongly against using that kinda input to make something up to integrate into One Tagger.

6. Your wheel does show indeed the ones that I agree with that could potentially be ok to mix with. Though it looks like you have a certain sequence/order with those 1,2,3 indicators, which i'm not quite following.

N.B.: You are aware this is a free and open source app, made by a 2-man show right? Meaning we do this next to our job/school, so our aim is not to reinvent the wheel, when there are alternatives out there already. Mp3tag's current state is reached over 23 years of developing. MusicBee took 14 years as it is right now. Those do some stuff great already.

One Tagger is merely an addition where such above mentioned are doing it either badly or not at all. Auto Tag feature = bad in all other programs. See gsheet comparison: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/118TPnCv6jy9AZ-cv1kxlxyI1EoNzcJ11L7wbQtfB368/edit?usp=sharing hence great addition Audio Features = unique Quick Tag = unique Edit Tags = a bonus

But manual tagging is there in Mp3tag for example already, and does its job great (no need to reinvent/create such again for the sake of adding it all into one program, that is backed up by a 2-man show) Also the dubolt.com is already there, and does the job.

Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world, I'd love to see all combined too, but in the real world, it will take too much time and effort, with only 2 guys working on it, making no income of it. So gotta be grateful to the benefits all apps have individually =) My 2 cents.

[Harmonizer-byte]

Well, You are generally right when you say that if you collect all the services and programs, then in total they will do what a DJ needs. But what I'm trying to talk about is a system of a higher quality than what is currently available in this space.

And the weakest link in all DJ programs is the management of music tags, characteristics that are important for a DJ. That is, if there was such a program, I would even abandon the browser in this program and drag it just from a program for managing music files, such as one tagger or musicbee.

But to search for music in spotify or deezer, then check these tracks in one of the djs before buying, then go to iTunes and search for each track, then move the tracks after purchase to their desired folders, then tags, hot cues, playlists, mix recording, publishing on the Internet. Imagine how many stages a DJ goes through just to start playing his tracks, of course I'm exaggerating it a little, but you get the gist.

Personally, I'm really looking forward to when music can be bought directly in the browser of the program, as it happens in iTunes.

[Marekkon5]

I've added the star rating in the list in the latest commit. You can get the binary in the Actions tab on Github to try it out. Let me know, what you think. Thanks

[Marekkon5]

You can now have multiple genres since the latest commit. You can get the binary in the Actions tab on Github to try it out. Let me know, what you think. Thanks

[Harmonizer-byte]

You can now have multiple genres since the latest commit. You can get the binary in the Actions tab on Github to try it out. Let me know, what you think. Thanks

Hi, thanks, I want to check, but I don’t understand what I should download in the action tab, could I help?

[Marekkon5]

Actually the latest build failed, because Chocolatey servers are down/not working atm. So I will restart the build after some time, so you'll have to wait. Sorry for that.

Or you can run 1T from source if you have 2 hours to spare.

Thanks

[Harmonizer-byte]

Actually the latest build failed, because Chocolatey servers are down/not working atm. So I will restart the build after some time, so you'll have to wait. Sorry for that.

Or you can run 1T from source if you have 2 hours to spare.

Thanks

I will wait, thanks

[Marekkon5]

Actually the latest build failed, because Chocolatey servers are down/not working atm. So I will restart the build after some time, so you'll have to wait. Sorry for that. Or you can run 1T from source if you have 2 hours to spare. Thanks

I will wait, thanks

The builds are successful now, you can click the Actions tab on top, then the latest build (Make genre multi value) and then at the bottom download file for your OS.

Let me know if this works for you, thanks.

[Harmonizer-byte]

It looks good, and I also love that you can quickly specify multiple genres. At one time I even thought to create a constructor for the genre, each word of which would describe one of the characteristics of the track. House Tech funky House UK Garage House Deep Tropical Trance Break Progressive and now its possible.

On the other hand, how can I mark a genre that goes beyond the window in a laptop?

About other When installing the program, Windows automatically starts to reboot. This should probably be turned off. I would also make each line a little narrower to fit more information. And I would also add the ability to display the tags that the DJ needs.

I also still insist that the browser on the left be made and work like all other music programs. I really like how the browser works in the musicbee, where by clicking on a folder, you can see all the attached files (like serato crates)

[Harmonizer-byte]

Now all the customized tags on the right are placed in one field with a green rim, I would divide these tags among themselves visually, so after all these tags refer to different descriptions of characteristics

Situation Vibe Instruments I would visually separate them or make them as separate tags

[Harmonizer-byte]

I am also confused that the removal and addition of tags occurs through the settings, it would be good to do these operations right in the browser window. (like rekordbox) For example add a tag is just a + sign in the window

Change tags (delete, rename) , this is the handle icon at the top of the column

[Harmonizer-byte]

https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/suggestions-for-browser.403581/

You can also check out my thread on the tractor for browser forum, maybe you can find some fresh ideas for one tagger. In any case, contact me, I am always open to work together. https://www.instagram.com/monster_ddj1/ If you want, I can help make a 'real product' for DJs that will be used by thousands of people. Now it looks like just the beginning.

[Marekkon5]

As for the reboot issue - we do know about it, but sadly we can't fix it. It's a webview2 issue, where the headless installer just auto-reboots without asking, without notifying or without any way to prevent this. Hiwever it doesn't even happen 100% of the time - on fresh updated Windows 10 installs it wasn't reproducible. So we are sorry for that inconvinience.

As for the rest/UX - I'll discuss with @bascurtiz and he'll let you know too.

[bascurtiz]

@Harmonizer-byte

1. We're planning on making an extra row for subgenres. So that whenever you hover over the main genre, it will show your defined subgenres, which u can then click on. No keybindings for those, cause you can only remember so much/little.

This way the width of your laptop shouldn't matter too much. In theory 15-20 main genres, and 15-20 subgenres per main genre to display this way.

2. As you can see in your example the narrower fit won't show all either. It becomes crowdy even. Not everyone wants to show Record label, some will have more than 3 tags for Instruments, and then 3 for vibe, etc. While those are already showing and displaying whether they are active or not using the primary color. In the end, it's about a handy way of quick tagging your values, and then inside your DJ app, you do the sorting/filtering and are restricted to what they can show u.

3. Why do u need that browser on the left in Quick Tag? U already have that in Edit Tags. And once again, we are fighting with what we can display (keeping 1280x720 in check), while not becoming crowdy.

4. "Divide these tags among themselves visually?" I'm not following. Can you make a mockup?

"Situation Vibe Instrument I would visually seperate them?" Those are already separated by being bigger , bolder and white in color.

5. The idea of the + icon to add new ones is indeed nice. And also the the way to remove is more user-friendly. But I haven't found a vue/quasar compononent to do so. Will look into it.

6. Custom note does indeed more than just adding a custom note, like "Marie's favorite b-day song!" or "[mww] (mixes well with) Niggas in Paris" But the idea is that u add/remove the rest of the values by either clicking or entering the keyboard shortcut. What is your suggestion to name this button? "CHANGE TAGS"?

7. I've seen your examples on Traktor forum, and imo, yours are too narrowed down to your own likings and look crowded. Compare with my original idea here: https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/introducing-quick-tag-in-traktor-pro.419623/ Which looks clean and lean.

[Harmonizer-byte]

I've seen your idea of fast tagging, I've even written you a few comments under it. But this is only one part of the program out of the many functions that DJs still use.

I don't quite understand who will use the one tagger in the form in which it is now. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a goal to do only "my functions" in your program, I just imagine how other DJs use it. I am also a DJ myself and I know what tools I need to manage my library. DJ does such things in his program as:

• tagging music with various characteristics (manual + automatic) this is what one tagger is "trying" to do now
• He also searches for music
• buys it
• copies files
• moves playlists
• creates playlists
• deletes playlists
• he puts hot cues
• searches fsuitable tracks inside the program itself
• collects a track list for a mix of tracks that sound great together and much more.

I see one tagger as a full-fledged product, where there is everything for preparing music before dragging a track into the deck of the dj program. You can even make a mode where instead of a serato or traktor browser, DJs will drag tracks along with hot cues directly from your browser.

[bascurtiz]

Yep. We DJs do all such things as u mentioned.

We are thinking about renaming files too, based on metadata, incl. schemes, like artist - title etc.

But, without repeating myself I'll quote myself once again:

N.B.: You are aware this is a free and open source app, made by a 2-man show right? Meaning we do this next to our job/school, so our aim is not to reinvent the wheel, when there are alternatives out there already.

One Tagger is merely an addition where such above mentioned are doing it either badly or not at all.

Don't get me wrong, in an ideal world, I'd love to see all combined too, but in the real world, it will take too much time and effort, with only 2 guys working on it, making no income of it. So gotta be grateful to the benefits all apps have individually =) My 2 cents.

[Harmonizer-byte]

[Harmonizer-byte]

There are no alternatives for convenient metadata management, even in your application today. The fact that you say that everything can be done using third-party programs, and one tagger performs only a separate function - if, honestly, it has no practical application, I have studied your program over the past few weeks - I can confidently tell you - with that approach That you now have - it has no future and nobody uses it.

I'm not suggesting that you become the second Spotify, let's start with very simple things that even two people can do, or rather the convenient arrangement of various buttons and basic basic functions.

Your approach looks rather strange, for two weeks of our general communication, you are trying to dissuade me in every possible way from helping you. You are not determined to improve your product, but to protect the existing order. I think this approach has no future. No offense.

[Harmonizer-byte]

:)

[lord-carlos]

It has nothing to do with open mind, it's that developing a large app that you have in mind takes a lot of ressources.

[Harmonizer-byte]

It has nothing to do with open mind, it's that developing a large app that you have in mind takes a lot of ressources.

who you are?

[bascurtiz]

@Harmonizer-byte The fact we integrate requests by various people wanting them, is proof we do listen to feedback. Incl. two of your own requests. If we agree - it will be a good addition - that is. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but most of what you bring up to the table either already is possible with 3rd party programs/sites (free), is already in One Tagger, or your DJ app. Or... too ambitious for a free app. It's too much to ask to combine it all, that'll be a luxury. And should be a paid product. Like Lexicon.

So please don't take this personal, we just do what we think is a great addition or change. And if you don't agree, that's fine. Just as it should be fine we don't agree with some of your ideas. It's open source after all. So if you want to spent the amount of time and effort into making all your requests come true, just fork, and do so.

The amount of upvotes on reddit release posts should show it already has practical application.

Side note: Bursting off with all kind of requests all over the place, then I give you feedback, by trying to break it all down and tell you why a certain idea is good or not, ending up with your reply as 'I see 1T as X' is kind of disrepectful. Either you try to defend why your idea is still valid, or atleast take feedback into account, instead of generalizing your idea what One Tagger should suppose to do, on top of ours. Thank you.

@lord-carlos In a nutshell: yep.