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MarocZan / Ocarina-of-Time-REDUX

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Update the Romhacking.net listing for Ocarina of Time Redux #2

Open NintendoManiac64 opened 2 years ago

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

The RomHacking.net listing for OoT Redux is still getting downloads and reviews despite the listing supposedly being outdated:

It might be a good idea for it to get updated at some point...

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

What parts of the listing are outdated?

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

The developer of Patcher64+ claimed that the Romhacking.net listings are out of date which is also why I previously retracted my inquiry into supporting the additional functionality from Aroenai's and Ozidual's "GC to N64" patches that, at least according to the Romhacking.net listings, were not included in Redux.

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

Ah I think I understand now. The Redux releases on RH.net aren't really being updated with each new feature added into the 64 Zeldas in Patcher64. Patcher64 offers a lot more things that users might want to modify or thinker to their liking, and that's why I added a link to the Patcher64 Tool so that users can customize the Redux patch.

However, the reason is that those releases are put together with what I thought was the ideal set of changes for a base QoL experience for both games, and with Patcher64 giving much more options, there's not much desire to update the patches again, since I always choose the same set of patches for both Reduxes. The only changes I'd need to update the RH.net pages are a proper 16:9 hack for OoT/MQ, and the Ocarina Icon changing depending on forms for MM.

(Bit of a side note, but are you the same person that I was in contact with for the Other M stuff on GBATemp?)

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

Well as mentioned in the Dolphin thread, I'm a bit bummed that Patcher64+ is Windows-only, so I was trying to see if there was some way to be able to get the updated Redux functionality in a more cross-platform solution.

And yes I'm the same person as on GBATemp; I've been a bit distracted by the shocking revelation that aspect-preserved resolution scaling with Intel graphics on desktop / external monitors isn't really a thing on Linux:

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

I can relate. I also have to rely on an external Windows machine to be able to make builds of N64 Redux, since I cannot seem to run Patcher64 on Linux (using a Gentoo distro).

Converting the PowerShell script into a multi-platform script like Python would be ideal, since it can run in almost anything nowadays, but sadly there hasn't been a proper conversion for it yet. Hopefully in the future.

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

I can't help but wonder if the upcoming launch of the Steam Deck and subsequently SteamOS 3.0 could help accelerate that process, whether via a native version of via it running in WINE.

It may be worth mentioning that, at least according to the Dolphin forum thread, the developer of Patcher64+ seems to be solidly in the Microsoft camp (they've even switched to Windows 11 already and have lamented keeping Patcher64+ supported on Windows 7 and 8.1).

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

You can run Patcher64+ without issue on as low as Windows 7 machines. The only PC with Windows I have access to has Windows 7 on it, and as long as you follow a proper procedure to install PowerShell unto it, you can run it with no problems. It remains to be seen though whether or not that compatibility will last.

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

Anyway, while re-reading one of your above comments, I just realized that you said only the 16:9 hack would be the only thing that be included in any such update vs the version already on Romhacking.net.

This seems to counter what the author of Patcher64+ stated though - they stated that the thing listed in Aroenai's and Ozidual's patches that were not on the Romhacking.net listing for Redux have since been implemented and/or re-created, but there was more than just the widescreen mod and the MM ocarina icons.

Perhaps I was in fact too hasty when I closed that previous issue that I had renamed to "nevermind" which I'd archived the original contents of here:

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

Almost all things listed in there (iirc) are already available in Patcher64+, but not necessarily on Redux. I know the improved comma and Stone stuff is included in Redux, the no-aa patch I am not sure if Redux has it or not (can't recall since that might be Rando stuff), Redux requires Expansion Pak by default to work. Patcher64 has the Map Select option added, but it's not in Redux.

The only two I'm not sure of what they really mean are the Z-Targeting and Master Quest door, I haven't heard of those from what I recall.

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

Wait, so is the 16:9 patch you spoke of just the "simple" non-advanced widescreen patch that Patcher64+ has for OoT? That is, the "widescreen" option that doesn't actually render the 3D scenes with a wider FOV?

I ask because the "advanced" widescreen option that actually renders the 3D scenes with a wider FOV is listed as incompatible with Redux and Patcher64+ doesn't even let you combine the two options.

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

Not quite. What I was referring to with a proper 16:9 patch for OoT, was one that could be compatible with OoT Redux. The "Simple" widescreen hack available in Patcher64 that's compatible with Redux modifies some of the custom backgrounds to properly be shows as 16:9 images when the "16:9 (Stretch)" option of certain emulators is used for OoT.

The "Advanced" widescreen hack is one that properly moves the HUD icons and textures to the corners of the 16:9 video output (which is the one made by gamemasterplc), and this is the one that's not currently compatible with Redux. What I meant with a proper 16:9 patch for Redux is basically the "Advanced" widescreen + Redux, kind of what MM Redux + Advanced 16:9 does at the moment.

The reason why Patcher64 doesn't allow you to combine Advanced+Redux is that the original Widescreen hack for OoT made by gamemasterplc has some issues with some of the Redux code. The source code can be seen in the Patcher64 repository. I don't know the specifics of the non-compatible code, but I think it has to do with some RAM stuff that both Widescreen and Redux attempt to touch at the same time.

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

Does the "simple" widescreen patch work on real hardware for widescreen TVs that stretch the image to full screen? (as is typically done with N64 and Wii VC games due to the use of anamorphic widescreen)

　

Anyway, if a proper widescreen patch for OoT Redux exists, but it's not included in the Romhacking.net version nor in the Patcher64+ version...

...then how can one even use it? Or is it still WIP and not ready for public consumption?

　

Also I don't suppose there's also a (WIP?) improved MM Redux widescreen patch that doesn't require you to 1. disable motion blur 2. disable flashback effects 3. hide the dpad icon

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

I think the "Simple" Widescreen option wouldn't really work on real hardware, as all the N64 does when playing on those TVs is just stretching the whole screen, including the 3D models. You need the "16:9 (Stretched)" option that some emulators offer in order to be able to experience the 16:9 pre-rendered backgrounds Cybertron and I did for OoT, as said option does resize 3D models properly, textures/icons are the only thing that aren't affected by it.

For OoT Redux, there isn't any proper widescreen patch yet, the widescreen code still hasn't been properly reworked to allow for Redux compatibility, so sadly that's still not done.

For Majora's Mask, I think GhostlyDark managed to rework the MM 1.0 widescreen hack by gamemasterplc to properly work with Redux, and that one has been recently implemented as something called "Redux Plus" iirc, which works with the Advanced Widescreen option for MM. That makes it so that you no longer need to disable the motion blur nor the flashback effects, however I think that one still requires you to hide the DPad icon (I'm not certain though).

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

I'm not sure what you're referring to by "stretch 16:9" as it sounds like you've mixed up the aspect ratio options from Jabo's Direct3D8 plugin which has "stretch" (what TVs/real N64/Wii VC do) and "force 16:9" (aka a true widescreen hack)

(it also has a "force 4:3" aka pillarboxing setting along with the default "automatic")

EDIT: GLideN64 also has similar options:

　

As for GhostlyDark, I'm not finding anything like you describe.... have you by chance mistaken his use of the "+" character (where he used it in-place of the word "and" or "with") in the following github issue?: https://github.com/gonetz/GLideN64/issues/2437

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

Oh by "16:9 Stretch" I was referring to the option found under RetroArch's Mupen64 Plus Next core, which has normal 4:3, stretched 16:9 and Forced 16:9. I might have been confusing them (as I don't have access to RA right now to check), but I think what you're referring to is correct, as it should be the Forced 16:9 hack that makes 3D models thinner but still stretches the HUD and other textures.

The reworked Widescreen code by GhostlyDark I'm mentioning is this one: https://github.com/ShadowOne333/Zelda64-Redux-Documentation/blob/master/Ocarina%20of%20Time/WS/oot-ws-10.asm

That's the one used as base for Patcher64. (Also that repo contains all of the findings and documentation I could gather when porting stuff from other releases of OoT/MM into their 1.0 versions).

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

So basically you're saying that the "simple" widescreen patch still requires the user to enable a widescreen hack in their emulator of choice?

And, if that reworked widescreen code is the one used for Patcher64, then shouldn't it allow the user to apply it when Redux is enabled...? EDIT: Wait so, despite it being hosted on the Zelda64-Redux-Documentation github, you're saying it's not actually compatible with Redux?

　

Also, what about that supposed improved Majora's Mask widescreen? That's what I was referring to by the github issue link (EDIT: to clarify, resizing the window isn't an option for me as I'm targeting real N64 hardware as well as the Wii VC on real hardware).

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

Yes you're correct. The "Simple" widescreen patch basically adds the custom 16:9 background images into the ROM, but requires the user to enable the Force 16:9 option in the emulator, or it won't show up properly.

Oh I'm sorry, I got confused and linked the OoT WS code, the one I was referring to was the Majora's Mask v1.0 widescreen code, which got reworked by Ghostly and is properly working with MM Redux as Redux Plus in Patcher64: https://github.com/ShadowOne333/Zelda64-Redux-Documentation/blob/master/Majora's%20Mask/WS/mm-ws-gd.asm

The OoT one is a ported version from the v1.2 code by gamemasterplc into a v1.0 OoT ROM by Ghostly, however this one doesn't work with Redux, hence the reliance on the "simple" and "advanced" widescreen options from Patcher64

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

Then does that mean the warning in Patcher64+'s tool tips for MM's advanced widescreen option is simply outdated? (it mentions the cutscene blur effects corrupting the text and such) EDIT: or is that fix something specific to Redux and the issues still occur with normal, non-redux MM?

Patcher64+ also forces the Rudex D-pad HUD to be "hidden" when using MM's advanced widescreen, but you say that is still necessary even for the updated widescreen patch?

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

I think the warning is no longer there in more recent versions of Patcher64, is it? Last I knew the New Redux which is compatible with the widescreen hack of MM was made the default in Patcher64's latest version. The original Redux patch is still there, and can be toggled on/off as an option, but that's up to the user.

And correct, the DPad HUD being hidden is still forced with the New Redux+WS patch, no workaround for that yet. But as long as we still have the functionality turned on, it's not an issue, at least not for me.

NintendoManiac64 commented 2 years ago

Unfortunately for me the person that would be playing on a real N64 has a self-admitted terrible short-term memory so they're extremely likely to completely forget about the D-pad functionality if it's not actually on-screen, especially since they already have a pretty good historical memory of OoT on a real N64 from decades ago (they were just recently able to identify which Fire Temple music they had when I linked them to both versions) and obviously stock OoT never had any such D-pad functionality so such a thing isn't likely to be remembered without some indication of such.

Heck they've enough of a historical memory for the N64 hardware that, despite that controller's flaws, they greatly prefer using the N64 controller for the muscle-memory rather than the likes of a GameCube controller or even an Xbox 360/One/Series controller (which they themselves admits as actually being their favorite controller, but they didn't want to use it for the Zelda N64 games).

ShadowOne333 commented 2 years ago

I do agree that it'd be best to have the DPad available, but I am out of the loop as to what's required or what's colliding between the Widescreen stuff so that the DPad can be shown properly with it, so I have no clue on that. Outside of Widescreen stuff, everything else works with the Dpad Icon.