Update Page Content

[serapath]

I copied the content from metagovernment.org to metagovernment.github.io. You can see the source in the repository here It's easy to update the source - ideal would be to FORK the page, make updates to your "fork" and then create a PULL REQUEST back to this repository. Every member of the metagovernment organization will be able to see it and we can discuss the changes.

Regarding "wiki functionality" - it's very easy to create .markdown files and add links to other .markdown files to them and create a wiki by the way by doing so :-)

Whoever owns the metagovernment.org domain (Ed?) You can forward it to github using A Records - the repository already contains a CNAME file, which takes care of the rest.

[msand]

Seems the metagovernment domain has been over by some indonesian content. Such a shame that we can't reach the people in the mailing list anymore. @serapath You have any contact with anyone?

[jacopotolja]

It seem to me that real democracy have been kidnapped Can this be a conspiracy?  Or is just that the form of government we are accustomed is just a habit? 

Inviato da Tablet Samsung. -------- Messaggio originale --------Da: Mikael Sand notifications@github.com Data: 14/03/19 23:02 (GMT+01:00) A: "Metagovernment/metagovernment.github.io" metagovernment.github.io@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Oggetto: Re: [Metagovernment/metagovernment.github.io] Update Page Content (#1) Seems the metagovernment domain has been over by some indonesian content. Such a shame that we can't reach the people in the mailing list anymore. @serapath You have any contact with anyone?

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[msand]

I'm not sure we've achieved real democracy anywhere yet. And depending on the definition, it might not even be achievable/observable. But, if it's defined in an empirically falsifiable way, where we can ask if a specific person, community, area, nation, planet, etc. acts according to it or not, then we can talk about it scientifically within the limits of communicable language and computability logic, giving mathematical precision to it, and allowing to talk about under what logic(s) can we observably compute what statements.

At least if we consider the arguments of Karl Popper about using empirical falsifiability in the scientific method; and the Information theory of Claude Shannon, which tells us that any data collected will come from measurements of noisy channels (unless we discover perfectly noise-less channels and measurements of the continuum); and thus can only give us a finite amount of bits per measurement.

This combined with an assumption of the observable universe having a finite amount of energy, and a maximal resolution beyond which the energy densities involved in measurement produce black holes, and the observed positive cosmological constant suggesting that in the long run, all matter particles will disperse beyond each others observable light-cones and run out of exergy, puts an upper limit on the number of empirically falsifiable statements within the lifetime of such a universe.

A similar limit exists to the possible interpretations and semantics of the language used, and to what degree there exists consensus among the ones using the language, or at least a limit to how many of them that we can possible experience within a single universe epoch. Assuming the physical constants to be constant (we can adjust to changes in these if observed as well), we can use natural units, and have a relatively precise categorisation of statements into potentially inside observability and empirical falsifiability, vs outside possible observability and thus only philosophical potentiality.

The part of language which sits outside observability and inside philosophy is still interesting and relevant to the human experience, but not as useful for evaluating decision making with regards to sustainable relations to nature and energy, in comparison to the statements which are inside empiricism and preferably within the energy / resource budgets and technological capabilities involved.

The current situation seems to demand significantly more action, to meet the rate of increase in energy consumption sustainably enough, otherwise the risk for destructive instability seems relatively likely. The physics seems relatively clear, but the politics seem confused. More clarity and precision in use of language seems like it could help in this case. But mostly interesting to the degree that it affects the actions of humanity. Hopefully we can still mature to the potential of intergalactic species we have within our grasp.

Now, as the metagovernment page has expired, and has been replaced by some other content, I've created a substitute mailing list on freelists: https://www.freelists.org/list/metagovernment

I've also fixed the dns of opendemocracy.fi for free on cloudflare and set up a jekyll project hosted for free on github. It requires no build process, github has built in jekyll support, and it's essentially as easy as using the wiki. But, this still leaves the system dependent on a centralized organization. I recently found http://radicle.xyz which make git peer-to-peer using the InterPlanetary File System (IPFS).

Seems something a bit like this might be the way forward. This way it won't be dependent on something as weak as the current domain name system. This might also be the only other significant use for distributed ledgers found so far outside crypto-currencies, essentially being namespaces for how to find the latest version of some content, or any new content added to some list, enabling to fetch it from decentralized sources by having an identifier for it. This can also be done using gossip protocols, but it seems a library of content related to open governance should be able to have consensus on what content exists in the network, at least assuming a well behaved network and no partitions.

[msand]

@serapath Could you give @jacopotolja and me access rights to the organization as well? I'm thinking we could invite all the people who were active in the mailing list to join as well.

[msand]

@Mlchal maybe you'd be interested in joining the org here as well?

[msand]

@aigan How is AktivDemokrati now? still active?

[msand]

@metamerman Also has https://www.proxyfor.me/ and http://www.matchism.org/ He noticed that we can access the metagovernment from the wayback machine until late last year at least. We could possibly recover quite a bit of the content from there.

[micstepanek]

@Mlchal maybe you'd be interested in joining the org here as well?

Thank you Mikael, I use this account now. I may join, but I am not much active these days. Moreover, I went a different way of thinking with the mediacentric theory and subjective well-being. I might be too disrupting for your thing :)

[msand]

Welcome either way! More perspectives can surely diversify my thinking as well 😀

[sumerion]

Hi, The metagovernment.org domain was lost by an oversight of Ed. I suppose the hosting/wiki still exists but nothing is pointing to it. A new domain name can fix it. We can also appeal to the new owners to recover the domain name.

[msand]

@sumerion Are you able to get ahold of Ed / are you in contact with him? I'm willing to give the opendemocracy.fi domain for it if there's interest. Or even pay for some more suitable name. Some are relatively cheap nowadays.

[msand]

@sumerion It seems you're correct, i found the old dns records from here: https://securitytrails.com/domain/www.metagovernment.org/history/a

143.95.40.24	A Small Orange LLC	2017-05-26 (1 year ago)	2019-01-25 (1 month ago)	1 year

And added this to my hosts file: 143.95.40.24 www.metagovernment.org

This enabled me to open the page in the browser, so it still seems to be up and running. Should probably try to make a backup before it goes down proper.

[msand]

I tried setting metagovernment.opendemocracy.fi to 143.95.40.24 but it would require overriding the Host header to www.metagovernment.org

But, I managed to get the backup script: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki#Without_shell_access_to_the_server https://github.com/WikiTeam/wikiteam/wiki/Tutorial#I_have_no_shell_access_to_server

To run, by changing the code in https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WikiTeam/wikiteam/master/dumpgenerator.py

I changed:

    session.headers.update({'User-Agent': getUserAgent()})

to:

    session.headers.update({'User-Agent': getUserAgent(), 'Host': "www.metagovernment.org"})

And called it with:

python2 dump.py --api=http://143.95.40.24/mw/api.php --xml

Managed to get about 640 pages of 753, and then it gives:

Downloaded 640 pages
HTTP Error 403.
Authentication required.
Please use --userpass.
http://143.95.40.24/mw/index.php?action=submit&offset=1&limit=1000&pages=User_talk%3APaydayloans22&title=Special%3AExport
    In attempt 1, XML for "User_talk:Paydayloans22" is wrong. Waiting 20 seconds and reloading...
HTTP Error 403.

[msand]

Seems the "User_talk:Paydayloans22" was the only page I couldn't get. Dump available here: https://github.com/opendemocracy/opendemocracy.github.io/commit/3de88dd589eb8d38f954d761bad70a1d5ea4d8fa

[msand]

Making a backup of the mailing list now http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/ 143.95.40.24 metagovernment.org 143.95.40.24 www.metagovernment.org 143.95.40.24 metascore.metagovernment.org There's also an older one at: http://metascore.metagovernment.org/pipermail/dev_metascore.org/

[msand]

Available from here: https://github.com/msand/metagovernment_mail_list_backup

[msand]

Also accessible from here: https://msand.github.io/metagovernment_mail_list_backup/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/

[sumerion]

Msg from Ed: "It is at asmallorange.com and the hosting plan is up for renewal right now. Does someone else want to take over hosting?"

[msand]

I can probably do it. Alternatively, we could transition to using the github organization and the page here. It's essentially as easy as a wiki, but we get the hosting for free.

[msand]

@serapath Are you interested in maintaining this page? Or could you give me/us rights to it?

[msand]

I have rights to maintain this github organization now. I would recommend we proceed with making a static version of the wiki available from here. Or would someone want the wiki available in editable form?

[sumerion]

I'm going to research if I can host the original editable wiki. We can still think about using a markdown github pages version, but spinning up the existing might be quicker. In any case we need to agree on a new domain name, while trying to convince the new owners of metagovernment.org to sell it back to 'us'.

[sumerion]

metagovernment.net was available and I registered it. Of course available for transfer to the community 'body', if it exists.

[sumerion]

website available again using existing hosting with domain metagovernment.net

[msand]

Excellent!

[sumerion]

I asked Ed until when the current hosting is active. Has there been any activity on the freelist mailinglist? Do we revive the old mailinglist with the new domain?

[msand]

A few people have signed up, but noone has posted anything there yet. At least if we could get the old domain back, then there wouldn't be any need for changes. Alternatively, just using the new domain should allow reaching the old subscribers without any work on their part, just need to change .org to .net when sending to the list.

[sumerion]

I've send an email to 'postmaster at metagovernment dot org' to see if they are willing to transfer the domain back. Let's see...

[serapath]

conseo 4consensus@web.de Michael Allan mike@reluk.ca Michael Allan mike@zelea.com conseo conseo@polyc0l0r.net

I think Michael Allan was managing a lot of the hosting and domains if that helps