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MichaIng / DietPi

Lightweight justice for your single-board computer!
https://dietpi.com/
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DietPi v6.0 | FAQ #1355

Closed Fourdee closed 6 years ago

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

DietPi v6.0

A new major core version of DietPi is our current release (previously v160).

When will it be released?

Where can I download the latest v6.0 image?

What can we expect with v6.0?

All DietPi images will be re-done from scratch using our new PREP_SYSTEM_FOR_DIETPI.sh (https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/blob/testing/PREP_SYSTEM_FOR_DIETPI.sh) system

More info: https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1385

Vastly improved error handling:

We don't like to see users experience issues with DietPi, however, they can happen. Sometimes its our fault, sometimes not, but either way we want to investigate:

Use of global variables and commands

The backbone of DietPi has received vast improvements to simplify and optimize the sourcecode.

Why will I not be able to update my existing installation of v159 (or lower)?

One of DietPi core features is the ability to update on demand. We love this feature, however, sometimes we simply need a full reset of existing installations to continue our support with the latest features and code.

Will my existing v159 (or lower) installation still work?

Yes, however, the system will not be able to update and we will not be able to provide support.

Reference in @MichaIng @k-plan. I hope you both agree this will allow us to completely reset DietPi baseline and focus on the future.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

Notes:

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee Nice summary, however do you think it is necessary to completely block update from v159? So far I didn't face major issues during update and as usual the some, appearing, can be handled.

However dropping Jessie support can be going hand in hand with this, as this anyway would need installing new image.. As I see on Odroid forum Meverics thread, the issue with Kodi on Odroid C2 is still present, so I guess we would need to pause offering this for C2 until Meveric made some progress there, to enable us moving on to Stretch. But ah, I just see that there are many other devices still on Jessie. But I guess, as long as they base on default Debian ARM images, there should not occur major issues from our side?

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@MichaIng

however do you think it is necessary to completely block update from v159? So far I didn't face major issues during update and as usual the some, appearing, can be handled.

Yes. The main reason is to reset and standardize each image we offer, and ensure the user is running the same when installed. We can then ensure patches are more stable, as the previous images (and the process we used to create them) have changed vastly since v120 > v159, with minimal standardization.

If you think, it is necessary/the benefit outweighs the work for existing users, then I will start to create a Nextcloud/ownCloud migration script, more less based on this:

Go for it 👍. Although, existing installations will still function, and the user can install v6.0 when they require. Sometimes a fresh install and clean start is a good thing, even for NC/OC :)

But ah, I just see that there are many other devices still on Jessie. But I guess, as long as they base on default Debian ARM images, there should not occur major issues from our side?

We wont be dropping Jessie, due to Odroid GPU/kodi packages limited to that distro. Other Jessie images (ARMbian etc), we'll re-do with Stretch.

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee Do we want to offer a last v160 update, where we just backport some urgent bugfixes, like the LD_LIBRARY_PATH error?

Invictaz commented 6 years ago

If someone can help me set up a Doozer or Travis build robot I can compile some software for DietPi that is now requested but not filled in.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@MichaIng

Do we want to offer a last v160 update, where we just backport some urgent bugfixes, like the LD_LIBRARY_PATH error?

Personally, as we offer solutions on the git tickets for these issues, I don't really want to focus on fixes for v159, in a pre-v6.0 update. Main reason being, we'd also need to dedicate time for testing and then supporting the release if we make any mistakes, or, other issues appear.

I'd prefer we simply focus on v6.0, give it all our attention and ensure its stable from the get go.

WolfganP commented 6 years ago

Sounds like a good plan. As no auto update will be provided, I suggest creating an special document on how to migrate to the new version for those with custom setups (ie running an special backup command that doesn't port unnecessary features, and then restore on v160 forwards), to entice users not to remain on v159 just because the manual overload of migrating to the new platform.

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@WolfganP

to entice users not to remain on v159 just because the manual overload of migrating to the new platform.

This were also my concerns, but providing a full migration script, easily breaks the advantage of the reset and makes a lot or work, without anyone being sure if the outcome is what was expected on the individual machine. As far as I can think of now, this would require migration scripts individually for each software we provide. I will provide one for Nextcloud+ownCloud, but I guess for other software(data+configs) it would need someone who has enough knowledge about the related software and is willing to coding.

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee To hold the other growing v6.0 related threads at bay, I created the new v6.0 label, to indicate which issues are (or seem to be) related to v6.0 development.

Not to muddle up with v6.0 milestone, which indicates, what we want to solve with v6.0 (but is an issue from prior releases).

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

Note: @MichaIng @k-plan v6.1 will be reserved solely for bug fixes, if required. To ensure we can patch any issues our users may experience with the vast changes in v6.0

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee @k-plan ownCloud/Nextcloud migration script is ready for testing: https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1413 Automatic recovery on fresh ownCloud/Nextcloud installation will follow. Will review and test this again first.

blogabe commented 6 years ago

How's the timing looking for v6.0? Since dietpi-update won't automatically upgrade to 6.0, should we check the main dietpi.com for the release update?

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@blogabe

Due date (release date) for v6.0 is Sunday 28th Jan: https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/milestone/64

Should be fee-sable, minus any RL stuff that crops up in-between 😃

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@MichaIng @k-plan Surprising email arrived today, looks legit lmao 🤣

Your Best Linux Distributions Recognition Preview is now available. As Published In: Makeuseof.com, November 2017. To order Click Here to view your custom web page or enter https://www.showmark.com/products.php?pc=X6AB3EBH&utm_campaign=main&utm_medium=37&utm_source=srvd1&utm_content=sc in your browser. Your Preview Code is: X6AB3EBH The plaque is $164 plus S/H.

https://www.showmark.com/products.php?pc=X6AB3EBH&utm_campaign=main&utm_medium=37&utm_source=srvd1&utm_content=sc

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

Congratulations, you are allowed to buy something from us 😆.

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee

Surprising email arrived today, looks legit lmao :rofl:

first I believe it is a joke.

Your Best Linux Distributions Recognition Preview is now available. As Published In: Makeuseof.com, November 2017.

But:

The Best Linux Operating Systems Christian Cawley November 24, 2017

6 Lightweight Operating Systems for Your Raspberry Pi Christian Cawley November 29, 2017

© 2018 MakeUseOf. All Rights Reserved.

https://www.makeuseof.com/?s=Dietpi

The Best Linux Operating Systems

6 Lightweight Operating Systems for Your Raspberry Pi

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@k-plan Nice, should have taken a closer look 🍾.

But the offer to buy some wall plaque there should still be taken as a joke 😄.

tatoosh commented 6 years ago

Can i use G_AGI with installiert id to install Software without dietpi-software menu?

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@tatoosh

Can i use G_AGI with installiert id to install Software without dietpi-software menu?

G_AGI is for APT only installations. To install software in dietpi-software without the menu:

Get a full list of software titles

dietpi-software list

Find the id of the title you want, eg: to install nextcloud:

dietpi-software install 114
blogabe commented 6 years ago

I'm still not clear on how to upgrade from 159 to 6.0... is it simply following the instructions at http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9#p9 or is there another topic that specifically talks about the migration to 6.0?

If it is following the above instructions, will this reset any of the configurations I've made, for example, the host name? I'm using DietPi on Allo DigiOne is that helps provide more context.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@blogabe

I'm still not clear on how to upgrade from 159 to 6.0... is it simply following the instructions at http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9#p9

In short, a fresh installation of the latest DietPi v6.0 image is required, if you want to update. The following guide will walk you through the steps: http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9#p9

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee

BTW:

Yes, I know .... reading is difficult for the most ... but anyway.

Thanks in advance.

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@blogabe

... how to upgrade from 159 to 6.0

Sorry, but not simple upgrade is possible. You have to start with a fresh image.

But if you are on DietPi v159 with your device, all is working fine and you are happy with it, all looking good, stay on it.

Base system behind DietPi is Debian. Debian Jessie has a LTS (long term support) until 2020-04. At least for security updates and fixes. As well for every package which comes via apt-get from debian repository.

Only things you will miss are DietPi updates and DietPi support from now on.

Some software and applications you have installed may have their own life cycle and support cycle. If a software project stops or died, where is noting we can do.

If you are a "must-have-always-last-updates-and-feature" junky, you have to switch to DietPi v6.0.

blogabe commented 6 years ago

In the process of switching to 6 using the fresh image. Since I have historically used dietpi-upgrade I'm unsure if following the fresh image steps will totally reset the environment to default settings or if it will respect my changes.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@blogabe

I'm unsure if following the fresh image steps will totally reset the environment to default settings or if it will respect my changes.

Its a full reset, fresh installation. Your existing installation settings, would need to be reapplied to the new installation manually.

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@blogabe

Hmm ... it's seems to be very difficult to understand.

Go/switch/chance from DietPi v159 ==>> DietPi v6.0 is simple impossible. No update, no upgrade, no dist-upgrade.

You will loose all software installations and all settings in any way.

So, copy your /mnt/dietpi_userdata/ to a safe location and start to write a fresh image on a sd card. Boot this sd card in you device and a fresh/new/first/initial installation will start, without additional software. After you run trough first setup, you can install whatever you like or need via dietpi-software. So you get DietPi v6.0 and with this, you will get updates, like before with dietpi-update

If you don't want this, stay on your current installation.

From now on DietPi v1xx will stay for ever on his last version 159. It is frozen/finished/final/discontinue/out-of-DietPi-support with v159. You can do as much dietpi-update as you like. Have a look:

 ───────────────────────────────────────
 DietPi     | 17:19 | Mon 29/01/18
 ───────────────────────────────────────
 V159       | NanoPi Neo (armv7l)
 ───────────────────────────────────────
 IP Address | 192.168.100.126
 ───────────────────────────────────────

root@NanoPi-Neo:~# dietpi-update
 [Info] Checking RootFS R/W access. Please wait...
 [Ok] RootFS R/W access.

 DietPi-Update
─────────────────────────────────────────────────────
 Mode: Checking for DietPi updates
 Please wait...

 [Info] Checking Mirror : http://dietpi.com/downloads/dietpi-update_mirror/master/server_version
  % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
                                 Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
100     6  100     6    0     0     62      0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--    63
 [Ok] Using update server: http://dietpi.com/downloads/dietpi-update_mirror/master/server_version

 [Ok] No updates required, your DietPi installation is up to date.

 [Info] Current Version : 159
 [Info] Server Version  : 159
root@NanoPi-Neo:~#

@Fourdee puh ... I get the feeling, version numbering v6.0 was not such a great idea. We would have better change to DietPi-Reloaded, DiePi Xperience, DietPi-X :smiley: :see_no_evil:

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@k-plan

http://dietpi.com/downloads/dietpi-update_mirror/master/server_version

I've updated this, user will now receive a message explaining new image is required.

Previous to this, any existing <v159 fresh install, or existing installation, may allow for a semi v6.0 update (bug). Which results in https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1434

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee

I've updated this, user will now receive a message explaining new image is required.

Nice! :+1: :smiley:

2018-01-29 19-55-41

 ───────────────────────────────────────
 DietPi     | Image available
 ───────────────────────────────────────
 V159       | NanoPi Neo (armv7l)
 ───────────────────────────────────────
 IP Address | 192.168.100.126
 ───────────────────────────────────────

 Created by : Daniel Knight
 Web        : http://DietPi.com
 Twitter    : http://twitter.com/dietpi_
 Donate     : http://goo.gl/pzISt9

 Device image possible thanks to: ARMbian
 DietPi's web hosting is powered by: MyVirtualServer.com

 dietpi-launcher  = All the DietPi programs in one place.
 dietpi-config    = Feature rich configuration tool for your device.
 dietpi-software  = Select optimized software for installation.

 An updated DietPi image is available, please goto:
 http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9#p9

 htop             = Resource monitor.
 cpu              = Shows CPU information and stats.

root@NanoPi-Neo:~#

If the XMAS tree was such a problem as well....

... now, every user MUST do a new installation .... :-1:

I don't know ... that's what I personally want to avoid. :see_no_evil:

djaydev commented 6 years ago

Hi, First off big fan of the OS. Been rock solid for me for a while.

I'd like to quadruple check because deleting my whole server to update to the latest supported release is not an option for me. Other than the previously mentioned "/mnt/dietpi_userdata/" is there another way to copy some files or folders to maintain current operation after reinstall? Or can you list the new packages that I can install individually? If migrating between supported and unsupported versions is outside of the project scope I understand and I thank you for the great ride, was fun while it lasted.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@dee31797

You do not need to update if you are happy with your current installation, or, uncomfortable in moving forward with us on this new journey. However, we cannot provide support the older v159 versions with latest code.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

Thoughts on recent events:

:angry: long day, thinking aloud and venting.

djaydev commented 6 years ago

I am happy with the current install and I thank you and the Dietpi team @Fourdee. I didn't have to pay a dime for using this project which I think is worth much much more. I can't show my appreciation for that enough. However, running this OS as a server, I can't stay on the version that's being marked as obsolete. At the same time I can't start it over. I would be ignorant to think windows 95 can be migrated to windows 10 since the versions are decades apart, but as you know this update does not compare to that very extreme case at all.

blogabe commented 6 years ago

Whoa whoa whoa :) More than happy with DietPi and the all the work you guys have put in. No doubt. Was just looking for clarification since I received an already flashed DietPi install from Allo and only used the built in upgrade command. Re-flashing is new to me and I wasn't sure about the ramifications. Certainly I would have preferred a way to migrate certain services I enabled, but starting from fresh isn't the end of the world.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@dee31797

Thanks for your feedback. We'll take it on-board.

MichaIng commented 6 years ago

@all Hehe, after reading first about the idea of dropping update support for this version, I didn't expect anything different, than many users complaining, or at least feeling left behind/stressed by the needed effort to reflash the DietPi image. I do myself 😉.

But yeah, indeed this step enabled us/massively simplified to do some deep improvements, rearrangements, file and software changes. To track and assure all these via incremental patching would have been a pain and could have easily break in some cases, if manual changes were done.

So I can feel with you guys, make the best of it, take the chance to do e.g. a Debian version jump, try some new software versions and feel happy afterwards with a clean fresh DietPi, whose further development benefits from this step.

djaydev commented 6 years ago

Hi @MichaIng Sorry if I sounded complainy, I really was asking if there was an alternate way to upgrade. Run a lot of OS's and was a bit baffled. You mentioned "Debian version jump", the most recent example of that going from Jessie to Stretch its very easy to do an in-place upgrade. I couldn't image wiping my Debian server every two years it's just not done.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

the most recent example of that going from Jessie to Stretch its very easy to do an in-place upgrade.

Fresh install, yep.

How i see it, on any system with software installed, regardless of DietPi:

End result, fresh install and wasted user time on a hope that APT (and all its available packages) succeeds without requiring intervention, and, assuming user has made no changes to any conf file that could accelerate its failure.

So, in our own way, our v6.0 image and forced reset, prevents situations like the above.

Fourdee commented 6 years ago

@dee31797

Please do not take this post personally https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1355#issuecomment-361427742 Not in any way aimed at you, we've had a few complaints/feedback, all of which add up and caught me at the wrong time. A time in which I needed to vent in order to try and comprehend the situation.

Very unprofessional/unacceptable from my end and I apologise.

djaydev commented 6 years ago

No worries, we just started dating on the internet, don't know each other well enough to get personal ;) kidding

When I mentioned

the most recent example of that going from Jessie to Stretch its very easy to do an in-place upgrade

I was taking about Debian main (or however it's said). If you run straight Debian Jessie or any modern server really, you can update yesterday's version to today's version, like from Jessie to Stretch. Then from Stretch to whatever and so on. No love lost if dietpi is going in a different direction do whats best for the project I just wanted to ask about possible upgrade methods before I wiped this thing.

borpin commented 6 years ago

$0.02 worth;

No upgrade path is disappointing, but sometimes necessary. It is the old adage of 'throw away a prototype'.

I have been swithering over rebuilding my systems; Stretch was one driver but this is the final one. I think DietPi is an excellent Distro and this change will, I think move it forward big time.

Anyone with a 'I can't rebuild my system' argument is, as you pointed out daft. Everyone has to rebuild at some point and often it is beneficial. Document what you do and then you can recreate it :)

Keep going and rubber ear the complainers. Emphasise that updating the underlying OS is still possible.

djaydev commented 6 years ago

Hi @borpin I don't agree with .02 worth, at least 10 times that! Kidding Dietpi has been a priceless OS for me. Not rebuilding isn't silly, unless of course your goal is to rebuild, it's just a different perspective. Perspectives are created based on your background and environment. Is Dietpi's perspective wrong, of course not noone's is, just different. Me being an old enterprise geezer, you take good backups, maintain up time, roll your OSs. I've done Win2008 to 2012 to 2016, or Ubuntu in a shorter duration but similar manner. I have done some rebuilds with virtual machines, keep the old one up while I move from to a new one, but for me that's usually a platform change like debian to centos. To wipe centos and then install centos, well I'll say it doesn't fit my perspective. But I do agree with your comment I can rebuild, and I have! I had to switch platforms since this rebuild made my backups kinda worthless, created a large amount of downtime and I'm still not 100% (main services are running that I can't live without). I love the os so much I'm going to keep it bookmark, and I'll probably still use it for one of my RPi zero Ws, now that I have a better understanding of the project perspective I know the proper use case going forward.

borpin commented 6 years ago

Just one other thought - Just tried to update an install currently on v158 and it baulked. Does this mean that anyone on an older version cannot even update to the last version - v159?

I'd be inclined to have a v160 to remove the Christmas tree and update the banner message.

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@borpin

:christmas_tree: - Remover:

http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2689#p10362

as script: XMAS_TREE_REMOVER_FOR_DIETPI.sh

wget https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/files/1678822/XMAS_TREE_REMOVER_FOR_DIETPI.zip -O dietpi-xtree-rem.zip
unzip -o dietpi-xtree-rem.zip
rm dietpi-xtree-rem.zip
chmod +x XMAS_TREE_REMOVER_FOR_DIETPI.sh
./XMAS_TREE_REMOVER_FOR_DIETPI.sh

Done!

or direct into terminal:

### DietPi XMAS tree remover ###
cp /DietPi/dietpi/dietpi-banner /DietPi/dietpi/dietpi-banner.XMAS-tree.bak
wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Fourdee/DietPi/521f611a69b9cc41ca7ac1f07ccc18182c5a4eb0/dietpi/dietpi-banner -O /DietPi/dietpi/dietpi-banner
chmod +x /DietPi/dietpi/dietpi-banner
clear
/DietPi/dietpi/login
echo -e '[\e[32m  OK  \e[0m] Store away XMAS tree and housekeeping.\n'

Done!

XMAS_TREE_REMOVER_FOR_DIETPI.zip

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@borpin

Just tried to update an install currently on v158 ...

Hmm ... must be a RPi Jessie? Correct?

Do you want/need/search a Jessie DietPi image for RPi? Something like: DietPi_v6.0_RPi-ARMv6-Jessie.img :question:

Does this mean that anyone on an older version cannot even update to the last version - v159?

Correct. v159 , the "former" master source tree is down on github. v6.x is now master, so no update tree for old images available any more.

borpin commented 6 years ago

@k-plan I think there should be an option for folk who do not want to migrate to V6 to at least be able to move to v159 - the last, and greatest, of that series! In this case, for me, I'm not going to move. The whole OS is on an HDD so rebuilding that is not an option at this time. It works fine as a data gatherer for my weather station (hence the HDD as there are frequent writes).

blogabe commented 6 years ago

@Fourdee Allo image is spot on and works. I had downloaded the generic RPi image from the download page, not the specific Allo Web GUI image. Reflashed and everything is as it should be. Letting you know here since I don't have an account at computer audiophile and I see that thread has many questions about the upgrade. Either way, for those of us using dietpi w/ Allo, reflashing and following the instructions at http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2317&p=8869#p8869 will work.

MGWGIT commented 6 years ago

Why in v.6 I didn't see a storage with configuration files such as dietpi.txt after flashing an image? Windows suggest only to format this drive...

k-plan commented 6 years ago

@MGWGIT

Why in v.6 I didn't see a storage with configuration files such as dietpi.txt after flashing an image?

Which image?

ARMbian based images, build using ARMbian build tools?

https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1385#issue-287129015

Please have a look here:

https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1465#issuecomment-362912009

https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1423#issue-291560616

https://github.com/Fourdee/DietPi/issues/1385#issuecomment-360261137

MGWGIT commented 6 years ago

@k-plan thanks, I think there are because Windows can't read EXT4... I try to configure image for Orange pi zero.

k-plan commented 6 years ago

thanks, I think there are because Windows can't read EXT4...

Yes, that's correct. Read ext4 file systems form Windows is not such a big problem. There are some free file system drivers. But we don't see a practicable way to edit and save file on ext4 file systems direct from Windows.