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Sylfaen font - IPA phonetic and Ge'ez characters #870

Open smhewitt opened 2 years ago

smhewitt commented 2 years ago

According to Wikipedia, the Sylfaen font was originally meant to include: "In 1997, Tiro was hired by Microsoft Typography to consult on the production of support materials for OpenType font development. Part of this project was producing a multi-script font used for displaying glyphs in Microsoft's cancelled Web Resource for International Typography (WRIT) database, which was a tool for establishing character and glyph requirements for given languages, geographical areas or scripts (or combinations thereof). The project included support for Latin, IPA, Cyrillic, Greek, Armenian, Georgian, and Ge'ez (Ethiopian) characters." The completion of the font with IPA Phonetic and Ge'ez (Ethiopian) characters would be wonderful!

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tiroj commented 2 years ago

The original spec for Sylfaen was specific to the WRIT database project: it was never intended for public release. The subset that Microsoft shipped—initially with Windows 2000, and then, unchanged with subsequent software—was primarily to provide system support for Armenian and Georgian (despite the unrefined nature of those designs in the font). There is also, of course, no italic and only a single weight.

The Sylfaen Ethiopic design was revised, given a new Latin companion, and is available in MS software under the name Nyala.

smhewitt commented 2 years ago

It would still be nice to have a full set of IPA phonetics characters in Sylfaen. Many linguists regret that Sylfaen doesn't have this.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 at 17:55, John Hudson @.***> wrote:

The original spec for Sylfaen was specific to the WRIT database project: it was never intended for public release. The subset that Microsoft shipped—initially with Windows 2000, and then, unchanged with subsequent software—was primarily to provide system support for Armenian and Georgian (despite the unrefined nature of those designs in the font). There is also, of course, no italic and only a single weight.

The Sylfaen Ethiopic design was revised, given a new Latin companion, and is available in MS software under the name Nyala.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/870#issuecomment-974678439, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AD2SWSQLAGZEL4HYB6WG5N3UM7HGZANCNFSM5IN5ROYQ . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

alib-ms commented 2 years ago

Here is the Unicode range analysis for sylfaen.ttf (based on Unicode 14.0): Block Range Count Total Missing Basic Latin U+0000-007F 95 95
Latin-1 Supplement U+0080-00FF 96 96 Latin Extended-A U+0100-017F 128 128 Greek and Coptic U+0370-03FF 73 135 U+0370-0377, U+037A-037D, U+037F, U+03CF-03FF Cyrillic U+0400-04FF 94 256 U+0400, U+040D, U+0450, U+045D, U+0460-048F, U+0492-04FF Armenian U+0530-058F 89 91 U+0560, U+0588 Georgian U+10A0-10FF 88 88
Georgian Supplement U+2D00-2D2F 40 40

I will check with the design team to see if adding the support for IPA phonetics characters in Sylfaen is a possibility. ASAIK, this font is in maintenance mode, so adding the mark positioning for improving Svan language support is something we should consider along with adding missing Armenian characters.

tiroj commented 2 years ago

There are improvements that could be made to the Armenian and Georgian designs, which were released by MS before they were finalised. This would presumably need to be done without affecting spacing, so some desired improvements might not be possible, but others would.

smhewitt commented 2 years ago

It would be good to have not only IPA Phonetic range, but other Latin diacritics. Check out a good Unicode font such as Minion 3 or Cambria. Best, Steve Hewitt

On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 at 20:17, Basit Ali @.***> wrote:

Here is the Unicode range analysis for sylfaen.ttf (based on Unicode 14.0): Block Range Count Total Missing Basic Latin U+0000-007F 95 95 Latin-1 Supplement U+0080-00FF 96 96 Latin Extended-A U+0100-017F 128 128 Greek and Coptic U+0370-03FF 73 135 U+0370-0377, U+037A-037D, U+037F, U+03CF-03FF Cyrillic U+0400-04FF 94 256 U+0400, U+040D, U+0450, U+045D, U+0460-048F, U+0492-04FF Armenian U+0530-058F 89 91 U+0560, U+0588 Georgian U+10A0-10FF 88 88 Georgian Supplement U+2D00-2D2F 40 40

I will check with the design team to see if adding the support for IPA phonetics characters in Sylfaen is a possibility. ASAIK, this font is in maintenance mode, so adding the mark positioning for improving Svan language support is something we should consider along with adding missing Armenian characters.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/870#issuecomment-988199735, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AD2SWSTD3T63X7BP2347PZLUPZMS7ANCNFSM5IN5ROYQ . Triage notifications on the go with GitHub Mobile for iOS https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id1477376905?ct=notification-email&mt=8&pt=524675 or Android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.github.android&referrer=utm_campaign%3Dnotification-email%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgithub.

alib-ms commented 2 years ago

I think it is outside of the scope of this font to support IPA Phonetic. We have other fonts as you have noted Cambria with desired character support. I would be more open to adding any missing characters in the Cambria and Calibri font family.

tiroj commented 2 years ago

The original WRIT version of Sylfaen did include fairly extensive IPA support, but this was never incorporated into the shipping version. Sources exist for most IPA characters, but would need some work.

smhewitt commented 2 years ago

It would be great if Sylfaen DID cover the IPA character ranges. Best, Steve Hewitt

On Sat, 17 Sept 2022 at 01:09, John Hudson @.***> wrote:

The original WRIT version of Sylfaen did include fairly extensive IPA support, but this was never incorporated into the shipping version. Sources exist for most IPA characters, but would need some work.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/870#issuecomment-1249927230, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AD2SWSVB2XBCXS357QEBKB3V6T43BANCNFSM5IN5ROYQ . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>