Curse Rework

[0ffz]

The current curse is a bit repetitive between layers and could use some more unique features that aren't potion effects. Please use this thread to discuss how to improve the curse. Think about where it is too easy, unfair/annoying, and some fancy effects you'd like to see.

[Mayonnaise5324]

Curse needing a rework is important, here's a recap of the rework to be:

Layer 1 and 2 remain unchanged

Layer 3, see if its possible to create player or creature hallucinations near players affected by the curse. Layer 3: Remove Poison/Add slowness 2/Add Hunger 2 Upgrading the slowness and hunger represents how the 3rd layer SHOULD make you feel in regards to nausea/disorientation

Layer 4: Add wither 2/Add slowness 2 Layer 4 should hurt much more to ascend, seeing as the 4th Layers curse is meant to make you bleed from every orifice. while we don't want to kill the players, I feel its a necessary upgrade to make ascending more challenging.

Layer 5: Add effect to reduce the maximum health temporarily of a player by 40% (4 Hearts)/Remove weakness effect/reduce slowness, hunger, and wither level by 1/ add strength 2 Layer 5 is where the game should try and make certain aspects of the curse more realistic to what happens in the manga. Regarding the Strength 2 effect, this is to represent the inability of self control when it comes to doing regular tasks in the 5th Layer. While the player loses 40% maximum health, instead of weakness being applied, its strength, as the player should unknowingly use more force than intended. Keep temporary blindness in layer 5.

(EVERYTHING PAST THIS POINT IS SPECULATION ON LAYER 6 CURSE/BLESSING) Layer 6 will need two things. A Blessing, and a Curse. Starting with the curse: The curse should put the player under immediate stress upon getting applied with the curse. To start, applying only the negative effects of Layer 5 is a good start. Reducing their maximum HP and giving them hunger/wither is good and will hurt the most, as it should in the 6th Layer. The Blessing needs to have such a rare chance of happening, that if the server reset, no one could get it day 1. I mean instead of a 1% chance, you make it a 0.1% or even 0.01 chance to get the blessing. The blessing will do this ONE thing: Make you immune to the curse. There should be repercussions to this, however. My first thought was to give penalties to players with the blessing if they ever come to Orth, where coded villagers won't trade with them and can only trade from a select few villagers at higher prices. Making you immune to the curse truly is a blessing, but as such, Nanachi has stated that Cave Raiders tend to kill Hollows they find, so making villagers not trade with you can act as discrimination against the Narehate, as you've lost your humanity.

Back to the curse: Layer 6 will need to put the player on their toes any time they attempt to get up. This means reducing their max health, applying a wither 1/2 and a poison 1 effect together, on top of hunger, weakness, and slowness. The curse should make fighting mobs impossible under its effects.

[Mayonnaise5324]

Custom effects of each layer: Layer 1, nothing. Layer 2, add food eating particles around the player to signify them puking. (make it happen 1/4 times?) Layer 3, Mob/Player model hallucinations Layer 4, Redstone particles fall off the player to signify them bleeding. Layer 5, Mix of redstone particles/white particles to represent bleeding/breaking bones

[ererbe]

Make milk useless for later layers. starting with layer 4? nah, more like 5, but definitly 6 My ideas and thoughts: Layer 1-2 are fine how they are

Layer 3 can we make a custom nausea shader? i know you can edit the shaders of minecraft maybe we could create a good nausea effect, i dont know a piece of shader coding, i just know its hard, but still i could look into it when people are interested.

• Yeah mob model hallucinations would be awesome. maybe we also can edit the elder guardian effect to something useful in this way.

Layer 4

• Needs visible Blood (def good idea here Mayonnaise)
• at the moment layer 4 isnt very challenging. you can like go up fast as hell, short rests are enough. just eat much - this is very unrealistic. maybe no hunger effect so you cant spam food and cant regenerate as fast. this would force the player to rest more frequently. but also increasing the incoming damage could help (like mayo suggested)

Layer 5 Is not challenging but annoying atm, Ill add something to Mayo`s: very good, the strenght should not be at level 2 maybe 1 (1 level was like 130% i guess They changed that, i didnt know to 1,5 hearts i think. so level 2 or 1 would be fine.) but the mining fatuigue still counts to weapon cooldown? Important bc you should not go berserk but be more like uncontrollable

Layer 6 !Im on anime stand, i dont have read the manga atm My idea would be: make it a BIG CHALLENGE to survive ascending. How?

• hit really hard, cant survive with normal food, you need some potion effects like regeneration so potions or golden apples. When you survive the curse for a longer time and keep your health good (like at high percentages) you can become Blessed. (Maybe this also would require an artifact, you could also play with: you need to have ascended some times from l5 or something, like getting used to it a bit (so counts how often you get hit by the curse in l5, resets after death)) Blessed?
  • Immune to curse or like just getting it really weak, depends
  • getting really small buffs maybe, like (one of them) night vision, speed 1, jump high 1, haste 1, resistance1, fire resistance, water breathing, extra health, luck, slow falling, saturation,?Counduit power, (depends on transformation, cant milk them obv, maybe just prevent the player from drinkin milk then.) but maybe also 2 sided swords. like you attack very fast but with no attack or other direction, or you like are fast and stuff but have just like 4 hearts. or a tank that is slow.
  • like mayo said, people may hate you. maybe you cant have keep inventory even on higher layers so you just drop all your stuff on death how you lose your blessing? because of death. but maybe just at first after 48 so you cant try again, but maybe you can lose it before but can turn into a blessed one before 48 hours are over. When you fail -> Cursed one, so a meatball thats likely useless. you have to wait for you death (negative debuffs: cant attack, cant mine, ?cant use any items (no placing blocks), maybe food but why you should?, because this would be boring for the player, maybe no suicide but speeding up this process by losing hearts over time and dont regenerate health) (maybe a chance you become mitty and just can die in one hit otherwise you will regenerate)

Death on L6? DROP your stuff, no grave like this, maybe an chest that can be opened by everyone (like a corpse tbh) need to start over from orth. So you get unlinked from your last bed.

When we have regional curse strengths: obviously some places where you will die, have a chance to die or lose your humanity, or places where it IS possible to survive and get blessed.

[Mayonnaise5324]

The reason you have hunger still in Layer 4 is so people HAVE to eat more to regen because in 1.15 there's a new regen mechanic that makes you regen faster at the cost of food. So with hunger, it uses saturation more, thus makes the player have to eat more to keep up with the damage they're taking. In the next update "meat" food will be harder to get, so if they don't come very prepared it'll mean their death.

[ererbe]

Yes, i would not give the hunger effect because for me this regen is broken. thats what i tried to say, makes everything easier. but you can still die when you dont watch out or its laggy. it would be harder without hunger i think. maybe i need to try this, maybe its not harder but more annoying.

[0ffz]

I like some of the ideas, lowering max health sounds really cool. I think we should take a bit of time and think of the overall curse system too, not just its effects.

How the curse is applied

• How should curse effects stack if you get hit again while already having effects?
• I was thinking we could store some fatigue value, which up the more you ascend and slowly decreases over time. The curse's strength will be increased with higher fatigue, leading to stronger effects or additional effects.
• Should the range players ascend be increased? I feel like the curse hits too often, perhaps with the fatigue system we could make it so the first time you ascend, effects are weaker, so it would act as a warning. We could make the fatigue number act as the opposite and get divided in half every time the curse hits, that way it would take significantly longer to reach the original weaker state.

Regional curse strength and what a weaker curse means

• If we make certain areas weaker than others, what do we actually consider to be weaker? Shorter effect length, less effects in general? The fatigue idea works well here since we can just mess with that value when we change the strength of a region, but we still need to determine how being more tired actually affects the curse's effects.

[Mayonnaise5324]

Being hit by the curse "double" seemed only really possible with the elevator scene. Nonetheless, if someone choses to keep ascending I think the values should slowly build up. To counter this a little though, the curse should take a bit more to activate. Players have it activate whenever they go up about 7 blocks, which can seem inconsistent. If you make it a larger amount, then it punishes those who are ascending too quickly, which is a good thing. So all in all:

• Curse should stack effects (build up, going from level 1 to level 2 etc)

• Range be increased, if the curse hits harder players dont need to be hit so often, it'd be too punishing. Minimum should be 15 blocks. So every 15 blocks, if still under the effect of the curse, the effect will stack and reset duration. Curse effect times will need tweeking based on this.

• Towards the main shaft of the abyss, the curse should be at its "strongest." Curse strength means how close a player would be to the shaft; meaning the effects are more prominent vs. not as powerful when not towards the main shaft. With every Layer except the 5th, this is easily do-able. Say the abyss has a center in the big hole, that center should make you get the worst of the curse. meaning if Layer 1, if you normally got hunger 1, lets say it gives hunger 3 instead, but only in the exact center. Then, about 60-80 blocks (maybe even more) from the center, you get hunger 2. If you are by the walls of the abyss, the effect should be its weakest at hunger 1. More scaling would be applied base on how big each layer is, and how much distance is there in each section. If Layer 4 section 1 has a bit of distance, then the minimum penalties are applied at THAT wall. In Layer 4 section 8, the walls might be farther in, since there are gaping holes in the ice walls. The walls of THOSE gaps, should give the minimum effect.

On top of giving lesser level effects, the duration could be what changes as well. For instance, in Nanachi's home, apparently they are far away enough from the verticle shaft to get the curse. So it could be, if you make certain areas a set block distance enough, the player would not get the curse. These should be specially chose areas of each layer/section that are far out from the verticle shaft that even if a player chose to make an elevator, would take much more time due to having to mine it all out.

The only exception to this is the 5th layer, where the curse will effect players regardless of if they're very far away, but possibly for a shorter duration. Say the center of Layer 5 gave it for 30-45 seconds, the walls of L5 should give it for no less than 10.

In the future for layer 6, this will be the biggest exception where you say there are no punches being held, and players will be hit by the full curse unless an area is deemed safe. Full duration, Full punishment.

[malwilson]

Alright now that ive had some time to think about it i have compiled some thoughts and ideas on the curse update. I will not be going too into the actuall effects of the curse but rather focus on the mechanics. Firstly while some of the other sugestions are true to the manga and anime, it might poorly be implimented in a unclear way in minecraft, im mainly looking at the regional curse thing it would be hard to let people know why sometimes the curse is stronger or not in some of the levels, and is kinda dev clutter.

Bringing me to that point, i would rather have a phase one update to the curse system to get it into a decent shape, before a bunch of other effects and features get added.

To look at the two main flaws with the current sytem, You can just run up and spam food-The curse does not apply as fast as you can walk upwards or climb upwards making some effects fade in and out rapidly. Im not going to get into what effects could be inplace to prevent you from just healing. But as far as the effects not lasting long enough to even match walking speed, I think something similar to the aformentioned "Curse Stacking" system could work. but rather than having the effect increase the more you go up say poison 1 to poison 2 it queues them potententially with cumulitive times. something like poison 1, poison 1, poison 1 here is a little more expanded onto that idea so climbing 10 blocks up gives you blindness for 20 seconds and sets a score to 1 keep climbing 50 blocks and you have score of two at score two the effects are 1.5x untill you stop if you keep climbing to 100 blocks it goes score 3 at a 2x effect rate

I changed the example to a base 10 so you could set it to the 8 block system inplace now and just change the numbers a little.

The point being that you could still travel around the effects would just be more noticable and not flash in and out.

And i know i said i wouldent talk about the effects, but two quick notes effects from higher levels arnt applying to lower levels say nausia isnt applying to level 3-4-5 hallucinations arnt applying to 4-5 might get nausia for 15-30 seconds on 2 and keep it the same so the effect doesent get worse it just applys, only real exception i could see is poison to wither

the level 3 hallucinations are applying way to fast to freak you out, and the sounds are iffy, maybe add in some cave.ogg and some of the new spooky water ambience.(https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Ambience#Underwater_ambience), i would shit my pants if i heard some of these past animal1. right now hallucinations are anoying to listen to while running up so maybe like every 50 blocks or so? decresing with your score so 50 then 40 then 30 or something.

let me know what you think and improvements ignore my shit spelling ill be on discord romanticanimegerl

[Mayonnaise5324]

For specifically the L3 Curse, if it was possible to place "fake" blocks near a player, as if they were hallucinating, then L3 would become much more deadly and players would have to watch out more. I think adding mob hallucinations could work too, but now fake blocks appearing would be much more fun.

[Naatchi]

add pushy vectors for when nausea is applied so its more realistic and make it tougher in general.

reduce the nausea value a bit like make it real low. Making it more lore friendly while keeping in mind gameplay elements is pretty essential.

spawning things by the player is a good idea but it might cause some lag so keep it to flashing mobs by the player and then somehow getting rid of them.

also all of yall's suggestions on reducing the curse is going to make it baby mode. abyss is supposed to be hard and the curse is supposed to be a pretty big problem not just a little pebble stuck in your shoe. Potentially I could add in armor that specifically reduces the curse and makes traversing easier but is only craftable with items from deeper layers. ie - Itemstack item = new ItemStack(Material.IRON_CHESTPLATE); Item Meta meta = item.getItemMeta(); meta.setDisplayName(ChatColor.GREEN + "Curse Resistant Chestplate"); //set meta or something add more things idk if(p.getInventory().getArmor() == item) { //do something }

recipe.shape("I I", "ISI", "III") recipe.setMaterial("I", Material.IRON_INGOT) recipe.setMaterial("S", //splitjaw scale or something)

basically it should be hard to survive in the beginning but the gameplay will reward you for surviving.

[Naatchi]

I can work on this aswell

[LukyLucas]

i dont know if one of the farther down comments in here said it but there is a ingame nausea effect.

[Naatchi]

the curse has already been reworked. nausea was too much to deal with so we opted to replace it.