1.1.2 Mobs still cant be disabled

[Taiine]

Posted about this for the last version. Mobs ignore the config when you try to disable them. Setting to 0 or false did nothing. Was told issue would be fixed in 1.1.2, it was not.

Started fresh, deleted old mod, deleted old config, installed 1.1.2, started new world then quit so new config generates, disabled all mobs, start new world on easy and am greeted with a mana creeper in my face before a plains biome with roaming Dryad's. Night brought Hecate's after me and Elemental's knocking at my door.

No and config issue hasn't been fixed. I at least want the Hecate's disabled as them thing's are so freaking annoying.

[Vaygrim]

I can confirm, I've tried everything and I still can't turn mobs off. I've got a whole coastline of my map I can't go near because it is constantly infested with Dryads. If I stay in the area too long I start lagging out hideously.

Much less the fact that Hecates are absurdly overpowered and aggravating as heck, I'd love to be able to turn them off too. Heh

[Taiine]

Hecate's are very over powered, and annoying, I often don't see them when there after me and they knock me around. They deal high damage even on easy and just make starting new a nightmare for me. That and all the effects from other mobs end up lagging me badly.

Don't get me started on the grifing meteors that have given me more then one skylight and removed one of my magic bee breeders.

I'm sad to say but I'm removing this mod from the personal mini 'modpack' I have put together for fun.

The cant disable also applies to just AM2 with forge, as I tested it alone to be sure the config issue wasn't a conflict or such with another mod... no mobs can be disabled.

[Mithion]

Lol you can't expect a fix in 8 hours from the issue. I understand your frustrations, I thought it was working. Apparently not.

This may be just me, but I hate requests to completely "disable" a mob...I worked hard on them! I would prefer constructive ways to re-balance them, and that is what I did. Tell me what you think.

Anyways, I have made the following changes in 1.1.2b: -Hecates do not spawn until the average magic level in an area is 20, and are essentially now a mid-late game enemy. If you're playing through AM2 you should have some decent armor by then. -Hecates no longer go invisible when attacking unless the game is on hard difficulty -Hecates have no armor on anything less than hard difficulty, meaning they are insanely easy to kill -Spawn weight configs work as intended, though you will first have to delete the "mobs" section of the config and let it re-generate. These configs cannot be used to completely disable a mob however, but can GREATLY reduce the amount they are encountered. -Dryads now despawn properly

You can also turn off the meteor terrain damage in config, that's been there since day one.

[Vaygrim]

Actually for the record, turning off meteor damage works perfectly fine for me, yes. I've never had issue with that config option.

Regarding Hecates, I can definitely understand your desire to see them used since you put so many hours of hard work into them, yes! I love how they look, and honestly the hissing noise they make gives me a serious case of the "Willies". So you must be doing something right with them, hahaha!

I really only have 2 issues with Hecates, motivating my wanting to turn them off: -> They can two-hit my no matter what non-AM2 armor I am wearing. Even with heavily enchanted Obsidian Armor (from Mekanism, maxes out my armor rating) two hits from a Hecate leave me at 1 heart. This means that starting off, they were pretty much the bane of my existence. -> They warp in and out of invisible, while still being able to hit you.

So if you combine both of those with the fact that Hecates have a tendency towards 'snaking' movement and they have an irregular hitbox (my first swing at them with a sword always misses)... they become public enemy number one immediately. So your proposed options are fabulous and amazing, and would go a LONG ways towards balancing them out .. especially in early game.

Regarding Dryads, I love 'em.. I just need some 'population control'. Heh

[Taiine]

Dryads would be fine if they didn't take lessens from rabbits. I had so many spawning near the lake by my base that I think it was effecting the normal mob count.

Hecates going invis period is what I always hated, that and no matter the armor they would beat me down even on easy. Having armor from other mods that pretty much make you take no damage, they were still killing me in two/three hits. ON EASY.

While I understand you not wanting to allow disabling mobs fully, it is a better option as some people may not like some mobs, allowing us to turn off those mobs rather than forcing us to deal with it is a more proper way to go.

Trust me, when you have had FIVE Hecates SPAWN CAMPING YOU and murdering you over and over and over pretty much making the map unplayable because you cant go but a few blocks before you're dead and forcing you to switch to peaceful just to be rid of them. Yes, even with the 'nerf' I want those annoying pests OFF. I don't like them one bit, and don't care for the elemtals either as they LAG me. Same with the Dryads, their effects LAG me, I want them OFF.

I can normally play MC at a nice 20-30 FPS with all the mods I have and effects set to max.. with AM2 and get packs of these mobs, I chug at a nice 4-9 fps. That makes fighting anything a royal pain. Worse when your game choses to pause for several moments and you find you had died during it...

[BossRedRanger]

Ars2 mobs ruin the experience in other dimensions like the Twilight Forest or Promised Lands. TF has its own spawning rules and I'd prefer being able to disable the mobs if they don't follow the rules of another mod's dimension. You don't find vanilla mobs on the surface in that dimension unless they leave cave areas. If at all possible it would be nice to disable mob spawning in other dimensions. If not I understand your effort but I'd prefer to be able to directly disable the mobs.

[jc2xs]

I'll second the idea that AM2 mobs should only spawn in the overworld. I'm currently running 1.1.1c so I know it is an older version. But, the TPS of my server is being killed by Dryads in the other dimensions. The Dryads are taking more time than the actual players and there are hundreds of them. Since I"m running the DW20 pack I don't want to update to 1.1.2 until FTB releases it to the pack..

[Mithion]

Spawn rates can be correctly set (though not disabled outright) as of 1.1.2b. Dryads despawn properly as well.

[Taiine]

I want to be able to out right DISABLE some of these mobs as they LAG ME. But sense that apparently isn't going to happen I'll be keeping this mod off my list,

[jc2xs]

I know you worked hard on these mobs and I appreciate it. But, I really need to be able to disable them as a means of at least testing if they are the issue. My lag issues have gotten worse not better. BTW: My server now on 1.1.2b using DW20 1.0.13

[Mithion]

@Taiine I really don't CARE what YOU THINK. Great, don't use it. Less whining I need to listen to.

[Mithion]

@jc2xs try using something like http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/2104497-164server-admin-opis-112-alpha-now-with-entity-support/ - this profiles things like chunks, tile entities, entiies - it will really help pinpoint where your lag is coming from.

[Taiine]

I have to say I am shocked by your response. I would have thought someone with such a nice mod would be far more professional in tending to issues players are encountering. But the fact that apparently you don't care that some players may not be able to enjoy the mod due to issues or due to mobs they don't care for is unacceptable.

I also see people speaking about lag on the FTB forums, I'm far from the only one.

Not only do these issues cause problems, it can make some mod packs unplayable as well. I'd love to play Magic World on FTB, but I'd have to disable AM2, due to the mobs giving me such lag to drop me to 4-8 FPS, when with out I get a steady 30-40fps. Then the issue that they make any and all armor worthless as their damage ignores it.

But you want to be immature and not offer something so simple that could allow people to still enjoy your mod with out these issues, something that every other mod allows us to do because some people may not like a mob, or said mob may be a bit to much for their system. Even Mo'Creatures allows us to turn off everything if we so wished.

But no, you give us the option of "Play only in peaceful" or "Disable Mod" I liked the Mana creepers, I liked the Dryads, I enjoyed the boss's.. I DIDN'T enjoy the elementals, that is the cause for my lag, and the Hecates whom ignore the armor you have and two shot you on -EASY-.

But now thanks to those two minor things that could be fixed just by allowing mobs to be disabled, I now cant enjoy the mod at all unless I play on peaceful.

Yeah, good job on that.

[Mithion]

Really? Because your first response when I attempted to work with you and identify the source of the lag properly so I might improve was something along the lines of

"I don't get EXACTLY what I want so I am going to ditch it."

Don't try to guilt me, it won't work. I'm perfectly willing to work with anyone willing to contribute something constructive to making the mod better, but if you're going to stomp and protest, then I will have little to say. AM2 is one of the most configurable mods out there because I listen to suggestions and try to make it better.

Tell me, did you try simply lowering the mob spawn rate with the fixed release? Did you attempt to profile using something like opis to see if it actually is the mobs? Or did you just give up when you saw me trying to improve a feature and come to a compromise rather than simply turn it off? I thought so.

Good job on that. Go play on peaceful.

[Taiine]

For one, yes I have tried lowering the spawn rate. It helped, but as soon as these mobs started to show up, I lagged.

The Hecates, still ignore any and all armor and two shot you... so even if they are easier to kill now and don't swarm. You still end up having to be on your tows if you don't want to use the armor from your mod, and say, want to use power armor, or quantum armor, or freaking diamond armor. As if you're not lucky to find them then you're dead.

As for the lag... lets show some examples. http://images.devs-on.net/Image/ZFQC0SBL3YyJMs1u-Region.png Normal feed the beast, a rather hefty modpack, average 25-35 FPS dropping to 18-19 as chunks load, 15 at times if chunks are loading and I have a lot of stuff going on, say the three chunk loaders that are keeping my 4 quarries running as I do this (testing stuff, figure best map to show this on). So I sat in that spot allowing things to load to give you a base FPS range in a dense forest area.

Then I spawned two elementals, and again sat to let things settle... http://images.devs-on.net/Image/D6m0BKJOhUbjG11m-Region.png That's the best my frame rate got. 25fps, down to 4. I moved away, chuggingly.

Back to where I am testing how many quarries will run off the power set up I have, plus two valcanos with flowing lava, and a spam fest of torrests, AND loading chunks, with a lot more mobs. http://images.devs-on.net/Image/AXwHjs2fi2LHjXnh-Region.png I still got 18fps in the area, with no elementals or dryeds spawned in the areas.

I get lag spikes -only- when these mobs spawn near me. Lowering the spawn rate may help most of the time, but I don't like having my game start chugging when they -do- spawn. Yes, it also gets worse with more of them.

My system can handle FTB with extra mods, the better leaves and gras that add's even more to the render time, plus several machine workings, cross dimension quarrie set ups... yeah I have three in the twilight forest as well, all with chunk loaders going. http://images.devs-on.net/Image/3S3v2imbNMsiw37K-Region.png having a lot of fun digging this guy out. With all of that, all the partical effects and staying at a good say 20fps... to drop to 1-4fps when these certain mobs spawn? Something is wrong.

http://images.devs-on.net/Image/FyGGN5d1GITO8CYF-Region.png spawned two again right in the middle of my set up.. or rather out of range of my little guards...

and after killing them. http://images.devs-on.net/Image/XIJR9bLisaW9towD-Region.png Bam.

So yes, as I said, I -know- it's the mobs. This happens even in default minecraft modded with ONLY your mod... the FPS are much better, but I still start lagging, dipping at 10fps when these mobs are spawned and 40-60 FPS with out.

So that 'I thought so' was your assumption.

[Mithion]

Now that's a proper bug report! Much better.

Assumption as it may have been, what was I supposed to go on? You didn't post any of that to start with, and instead just said it doesn't work. "Pics, or it didn't happen", is in fact a thing in this case. Profiling data is even better. It just takes too long to hunt things down with a vague explanation, so much so that I don't even bother.

It seems to me that there is something else going on there, as the mob AI profiles right in line with any of the other mobs in the game. Personally, I would like to find out what that is. My first thought is that it could be the particles. Could try disabling them via video options and see if the water elementals lag less. Could also try profiling with Opis as I suggested before - that information could be really handy. If we can find what the issue is specifically, I can try to correct it. As I've stated tons of times before, I'd rather figure out what is causing the problems and correct it, as that helps me to become a better modder and know what pitfalls to avoid in future features rather than just turning things off. Treat the symptoms, not the cause. Since they work just fine on my computer without even a single FPS loss, I can't test for it. But you can.

If you're willing to work with me and try a few more things first, and we truly cannot find anything else to account for the lag, then I'd happily alter the weights to disable mobs. At that point I would feel like we would have exhausted other possibilities. I however still feel that it is something which can be corrected.

If not, and you're just done with it, then the conversation can end here.

[Taiine]

Personally, I still feel it's best to allow mobs to be disabled. There are people who may not like some mobs added my mods, I for one disable the whisps from Thaumcraft, as their hitbox is so tinny even my 'lock on' torrets don't hit them, their flying and long range high damage become rather annoying to deal with. I also disable goleoms and orges on mo-creatures as the first also lags me as it's pulling all these floating blocks and I don't care for the orges smashing through blocks.

Anyho what in Opis do you need? I really don't grasp how to use it or how to send stuff. It comes with the DW20 modpack so I already have it, however the overlay and all the options don't change on click like in the instructions video so it's a little blah when from comments the post on it don't have all the /slash commands.

Is it this stuff? http://images.devs-on.net/Image/RrRrfXWZnTCykIn6-Region.png Mods disabled at the moment for that. Shows the hydra being the slowest. http://images.devs-on.net/Image/lpybNjbMFeYqmlwh-Region.png But still get a jump between 25-30+ FPS near em.. and yes all the chunks in the quarry, as well as a 9x9x9x9 area around that chunk loader is also loaded (as has been in the other screenies as well) Theres also three other areas like this activly mining away one being in an mystcraft age with instability, experimenting to see if myself not being there and only a few chunks loaded will leave the area loaded untouched or will the area around still be effected.

My partial setting for FTB at least is also set to minimal, view set to normal, smooth lighting off, graphics fast. Same for the above shots as well.

With particles off I lag a bit less, but it is still clearly more when around the elementals.

So tell me what options in Opis I need to do and I'll do them.

by the way. http://images.devs-on.net/Image/tpYKy6vLv2UurD3X-Region.png Re-loaded the mod, spawned a few in, 6fps is the highest I could get after sitting there waiting for the chunks to re-load.

....stupid hydra moved.... I wanted to see if he could break bedrock sense he swings around and breaks everything else, even water making for some glichy stuff.

By the way.. PLEASE freaking fix Hecates so they stop killing you in two hits reguardless of what armor you have on aside the mage armor from AM2. I want to use my power armor and it gets rather old dieing before even seeing them at times. Dare say thats even more frustrating then creepers sneaking up and booming your tush off... at least that can be negated by armor. These things ignore it.

[Mithion]

I can't see the images you posted - it says "Service Unavailable".

Is it just water elementals that lag you? Do hecates not? From what I gather you just want them gone due to their damage, not their lag.

For Opis, get yourself into a "6 fps" situation and run "/opis_start". Then wait for it to finish (250 ticks). After that, run /opis_ent. This will tell you the entities taking up the most tick time. Send me a screenshot of the results, and see if there is any more pertinent information you can find in that report. If the water elementals are the cause, then I will work towards making improvements on their tick time. Otherwise we may be looking at a render lag issue, which is a whole different beast.

Hecates should be much less of a problem anyways - their damage is entirely physical and can be mitigated by any armor. Also, you shouldn't even see them at all until your magic level exceeds 20 (average magic level of all players on a server is used for this). Meaning no more early game ganks. They also die instantly when exposed to sunlight. It's quite satisfying.

I've created an open issue #394 to track this issue moving forward, as this specifically is more to me about solving the lag than disabling the mobs (though that still isn't off the table). Please post further information there.

[Eunomiac]

Posting here because, if I understood you correctly, this is where the "disabling mobs" stuff goes?

Even though I love my Hecates (even on hard mode... despite the weird issue I just posted regarding dozens of Hecates spawning underground---or somewhere---and crowding out the mob cap), I have to tender my agreement with the people asking for a disable option. If players REALLY can't stand a certain mob, to the point that it's ruining their enjoyment of your mod---despite the fact that they love every other aspect of it---what's the harm in allowing a '0' setting in the configs to disable it?

The key point, I think, is that the distaste some players have towards, say, Hecates, is not an indication that there's anything wrong with them: It's just that some players don't like the uniquely deadly experience they offer.

Indeed, I think trying to balance Hecates to make everyone happy would be more damaging to the mod than allowing a disable option. To balance Hecates such that everyone is happy with them would require diluting the very thing that makes them so unique---their assassin-like lethality. Many players, myself included, love Hecates just the way they are---but, by their very nature, they're a polarizing kind of mob. Some players like the added threat they present, while others want to spellcraft and build nexi and do the hundred and one other cool things AM2 has to offer without worrying about invisible death-ninjas ganking them (or their golems) out of nowhere.

And then there are more practical reasons that some players might want to disable certain mobs. The Light Mages' habit of destroying mob grinders by detonating Creepers is one example I can think of. And, because your mobs tend to be more complex than the norm, with more richly varied effects on the game, there's the chance that these qualities might encounter problems when played alongside other mods, whose developers have based key balance assumptions on more conventional mob behavior. The vulnerability of TC4's Golems to Hecates is arguably an example of this---or, at least, an illustration of the kind of thing I'm getting at.

So, while I won't be disabling any mobs in my games, I do think the cleanest solution is to allow the option: It will give you more freedom to push the envelope and design unique mobs, without having to worry about diluting what makes them unique in an effort to make everyone happy with them.

[Mithion]

Well put. I don't intend to nerf hecates to the point of feebleness, but I do want to give players a chance to prepare for them. Plus, it makes sense in the lore that they would be drawn to "Stronger" magical sources. They're still just as deadly as ever, and there's a new mob coming that ups the challenge even more, but only in the right circumstance. It's called the Fury, and that's all I will say for the time being.

Upon reflection, I must say I agree with you and to a degree with Taiine about the reasons for disabling them. I'll make sure it's added in that spawn weight 0 disables mobs entirely in 1.2.

[Taiine]

Sorry for lack-o-posts, works been keeping me busy. This is what I was asking about http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9203/pphb.png If stuff like that is what you mean.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/6178/q8sn.png and for mobs, with out AM2 installed, showing the hydra being the 'slowest'.

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/781/3zt7.png and that I still get a solid 25-30+ FPS near em.

Stopping there, reloading AM2, and spawning in some elemental http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7504/2c32.png I began instantly chugging along between 1-3 FPS. I should have brought up OPIS before I spawned them @.x

But yeah, I still need to know what info from opis you need as I really don't understand how to read it even with the video tutorial, all I know is 'red chunks taking long to load' or something.

However I am glad you are now thinking on allowing the mobs to be disabled. As I said before, I loved the mod, the concept and the thing's you could do, but I just cant stand the Hecates. I cant have any thaumcraft golems as they seem to attract them and some how find away to them even when there inclosed and kill them in one hit... plus again, I don't like mobs that can deal such insane damage. Others might, but for me if I'm down mining in power armor or -any- armor, I'm not caring for still being killed in two hits, dead before I can even turn around and pull up a sword. To me that is insanely frustrating. Then having a hard time making it back before it all despawns and be killed yet again, and again.. and again... yes that really happened.

If I might make a suggestion about that. Perhaps could you make them so armor does negate the damage, just not as much as it does to normal mobs? As is, in even diamond armor, they pretty much one/two shot you. How about they still do that in lower weak armor, but in higher end armor and mod armor, they still do high damage, but it still negates it a 'little'... think like.. zombie damage with sword on hard with no armor on player kind of damage if not a bit higher.. it's still high damage, but it's not an insta death if you're caught unaware. You can still die, but you have a bit of time to react before you die and even a fighting chance to live after nearly losing all your hearts.

Such could also be set via game difficulty. Hard+ they stay as they are and can murder you reguardless of armor, med they do high damage as said, and easy they do slightly less damage.

Yes, it would be nice to have a mob that does still pose a real threat even in some of the high end armor added by mods that some pretty much make you immune to damage, to have a mob that can ignore that to a digree, yet not just flat out kill you would offer a balance to these higher armors and still leave you on guard and not be 'lalala pretty much like being in creative mode mining along with a hord of mobs poking me where the only issue is their knock back."

it wouldn't be so much of a nerf, as a means of balancing them so they can still be a threat with out being over whelming.