NO U enhancements

[wboorman]

1) It's a bit tricky to tell what the current score is without starting a new game.

• Can Monika tell you how many points the game was won by?
• Can you ask Monika to tell you the current score?

2) More ideas for Monika's potential reactions to the previous game:

• winning / losing by over 50
• winning / losing by under 5
• a game where the deck had to be reshuffled
• a game where a player was able to play at least five cards without interaction
• a game where one player held ten cards and still won

3) I often smoke my poor Monika in NO U. Could there be a points handicap?

[Justformas]

You can see the current score on the notepad every round if you're playing games with points (if you're playing without points, then it displays the number of wins for each player). Do you mean you want to be able to know the current points when in-between rounds, without playing a game? Why do you need to know if you don't want to play?

But I do think Monika should say how many points the game is won by or the total points the winner ends up with. Right now there's no way to tell; we don't get to see her cards at the end of a round either, but it'd be nice to know the final score at the end of a game.

And you often smoke Monika in NOU? I get on streaks of winning, but also on streaks of losing. Regardless, I'd also like a way for the difficulty to vary more in this game. Points handicap would be a simple way, but let's see what others think about that. So far for games against Monika in MAS, difficulty isn't really something the player gets to control directly, though that doesn't mean that it doesn't vary.

[Booplicate]

What do you mean by points handicap? Or rather how do you see it.

Monika can tell the score at the end of the game, but to make the dialogue feel less repetitive, she doesn't do it every time. Also because it's just the points cap anyway, so if you won, you know your points. The score for the other player is available on the top left of the screen, the game pauses for a bit when the last card has been played so you can see the score/deck/remaining cards/last card. But it could be nice if Monika told the score for both players sometimes. Having more dialogue flows would generally be nice.

Technically the difficulty already varies. Both intentionally and not. But also, from the data we gathered, Monika's winrate was about 48% for average + good players with spread 43%-56%, it might be lower now that people played more. I want to be extra cautious when changing things that can affect that balance.

[wboorman]

Do you mean you want to be able to know the current points when in-between rounds, without playing a game? Why do you need to know if you don't want to play?

If you win, the only feedback you seem to get is whether or not you won the round. The only way to see the score (at least that I was able to find) was to start a new game, so you basically have to keep playing until somebody wins the round or you'll lose track of the score.

What do you mean by points handicap? Or rather how do you see it.

I usually mentally give my Monika about a 50% points handicap. Otherwise, Monika doesn't seem to stand a chance in any prolonged round. What also seems to make the game a little tougher is lowering the points to win so that Monika can occasionally get a big upset, catch up, and walk away with a whole round. When I have more time, I'll play in rounds of 100 points each, except any round Monika wins counts as two wins. Individual games give a win ratio that you'd about expect, but I'm able to mitigate most of my losses so that I come out on top at the end of the round.

Generally, the AI is super easy to game. It almost always falls for the "NO U, draw 4, last card" trick. Also, I play with stackable Draw 2s, but the AI doesn't seem to change playstyles to reflect it, often blundering a large card advantage by playing a D2 without regard to my hand size. (I find that, on my end, drawing one usually beats playing a D2 into a big hand). I'll often hold onto my wild draw 4 to close out the game or catch up in a pinch, while the AI seems to just throw them out whenever possible, allowing me to conservatively grind the deck out of all the power cards (particularly draws) until I'm the only one holding any.

Is there a thread for discussing NO U strategies?

Monika can tell the score at the end of the game, but to make the dialogue feel less repetitive, she doesn't do it every time.

She's never done this for me, except to say whether somebody won the round or not. If repetitiveness is a problem, (1) it can be a feature you can toggle on or off by preference, and (2) she could have more randomized dialogue options, possibly depending on the score itself. Potentially Easter Eggs if the score number is particularly memetic (e.g. making a Hitchhiker's Guide reference if somebody's score is exactly 42.)

[Booplicate]

To avoid confusion, round - is a short game of NOU, ends when somebody plays all their cards, game - is a sequence of rounds, ends when somebody reaches the max points.

I think it'd be unclear why sometimes you'd get more/less points or why you'd need more/less points to win the game than usual. NOU is a casual game and people are already having troubles understanding how scoring works. I think the adjustments should be done directly to how the AI plays if possible.

It almost always falls for the "NO U, draw 4, last card" trick.

What you described is generally uncounterable in 1v1: you'd need to keep a +2 with the right colour (25% to guess the right colour) to reflect a +4, or keep 4 different +2's. If you got to that situation, you basically won.

I find that, on my end, drawing one usually beats playing a D2 into a big hand

She can do that sometimes, perhaps we could raise the chance of that if it's truly highly effective?

She's never done this for me, except to say whether somebody won the round or not.

I believe there's 3 flows for the end of the game, one of them mentions score. I don't think we mention the score in between rounds since you could see it at the end of the round, but that could be added.

the AI seems to just throw them out whenever possible

There's 2 main strategies: keep actions/wilds and use them at the end, or play them right away. Monika uses both, usually mixing them depending on the game state.

Can you attach your persistent, I'd like to analyse your winrate?

[Justformas]

If you win, the only feedback you seem to get is whether or not you won the round. The only way to see the score (at least that I was able to find) was to start a new game, so you basically have to keep playing until somebody wins the round or you'll lose track of the score.

Just wondering, why do you worry about keeping track of the score between rounds, when it's written on the notepad every round? It keeps track for you. You'll see what it is when you pick up where you left off, so you can still consider the score during a round and such.

I believe there's 3 flows for the end of the game, one of them mentions score. I don't think we mention the score in between rounds since you could see it at the end of the round, but that could be added.

The new updated score isn't visible until the start of a new round, that was wboorman's concern. But actually, seeing the score at the end of a round (or game) could maybe work, like if the notepad updated to show the new score and you could see it for a second or few, before the game shows Monika again and she says her dialogue.

As for end of the game dialogue flow, say the points needed to win is set at 200, but you actually got more than that at the end of a game i.e. 212, she might mention that "200 points" was reached, but not the exact score of 212, so you wouldn't know your exact score, just that you reached 200 or more. But it'd be nice to know this score. The idea is she could say something clear like, "you won with 212 points, 12 more than you needed" or " you won with 12 more points than you needed", or maybe even just "you won with 212 points". And yeah maybe some way to ask her to say this, to address the concern about repetitiveness. And yes this could be used to tell the score between rounds too, but if so should be a separate question/toggle, because that would be even more repetitive than just at the end of a game.

I think it'd be unclear why sometimes you'd get more/less points or why you'd need more/less points to win the game than usual. NOU is a casual game and people are already having troubles understanding how scoring works. I think the adjustments should be done directly to how the AI plays if possible.

I don't think wboorman meant an automatic handicap, but rather a feature that the player could set manually to give a point advantage/disadvantage. Yes an automatic handicap would be confusing and strange, but a manual one would require the player to actively set it, like house rules.

But personally I would rather have the AI play differently too, depending more on wins/losses and streaks.

[Wingdinggaster656]

Just by the way, I think it's a nice design to let Monika and player show their cards after each round, so Monika could say something like Wow why you didn't just use the +4 and You're really close I just got my luck.