Storyline Discussion

[ruba1987]

@projectrpg/thinktank Since we don't have a good place to discuss the story I fixed I would open an issue for it.

What does everyone think of what we have so far?

[ruba1987]

@dakdaros And I think we can just explain that away with magic... it's justified and simple enough to not add too much more detail to the story.

We need to be careful how we do things bc we want all our bases covered with regards to continuity and consistency. IMHO simpler is sometimes better

[walterthearchitect]

@ruba1987 yea I wasn't convinced by that. We need another convincing reason they are unsuccessful the first time though...

[ruba1987]

How about for the attack on the Venrok home planet we assassinate some leader and then just come home. Shortly after we get we "detect" a very large Venrok invasion and this is the big final battle?

[dakdaros]

I thought the idea of fighting on the Venrok planet was because we discovered they weren't really the bad guys, for lack of a better term.

[dakdaros]

I think if it's a quest where we gets transported to the Venrok homeworld, it should be a pretty large quest in stature. Like, blowing up a whole base and taking out a leader, and give the players a fair amount of time to spend in the alien world. Then, that really pisses off the new race, and they send a massive force to Earth, so we need to go back and fight. Meanwhile, in the confusion, the Venrok's main military uses the opportunity to start fighting their own revolutionary war.

[ruba1987]

Yea, we help the "good" Venrok assassinate some overlord leader and then come back. We don't really trust then all that much. And then we come back to either find they are really just different bad guys and now that they have their planet back are coming back to kill us... or they failed in taking everything back and all got killed and the really bad ones are coming for us

[dakdaros]

So that the only good Venrok are the ones that are on Earth? It's just that they didn't know their homeworld was taken over?

[ruba1987]

Regardless, I don't think we need to flesh this out to much right now. Odds are if we do it's going to change anyway

[dakdaros]

Yeah, that's very true, we just need a solid foundation on the intro.

[walterthearchitect]

Hmmm... I'm liking all this, but I think we need better reasoning for helping them in the first place. Maybe it's not an agreed upon effort.

[walterthearchitect]

Obviously, we would need pretty good convincing considering we were just in a decades long conflict with them.

[dakdaros]

Absolutely, I think there would be some major problems involved, unless that other force showed up on Earth and royally fucked things up right in the middle of the game. Then that's when the Venrok on Earth admit that they are the only ones left and that their World was destroyed by this new race, and that they think the key is the magic to helping fight back against the new invaders (which gets confirmed in a battle). That could lead to a mission wherein we go blow some shit up at the enemy's main base on the Venrok planet.

[ruba1987]

@dakdaros couple changes to the intro. I don't think they should enslave us and we don't dig. They kill those that get in their way but otherwise leave us alone. Shows arrogance and how self centered they are and sets the stage for them kinda being good. Also, I don't think Venrok are going dig for this stuff. I think it should be magically extracted in some way. Easily explaining why we didn't find it before.

And I don't like them basically flying in. Just have then use magic to "teleport". I think it's smoother and then it gives us a way to travel like that. In fact in the intro I think that might even be a detail that we don't need to mention... how they get here. We can discover that as we get into missions.

[dakdaros]

Ok, the only thing I worry about trying to explain teleportation for that time period is having it sound like it's not magic, because the Venrok want to know magic, but can't use it. At least that's what I thought. Once they find our powers, they want them, but somehow can't have them.

[ruba1987]

The Venrok have magic but want more/better/different. And it's magical temptation so it's easy to explain

[walterthearchitect]

Perhaps we are forced into fighting on their behalf. We would never willingly aid them, but we discover they are the lesser of two evils when the Overlord race comes to attack them on our world. We are able to defeat them with our magic and the Venrok technology. Perhaps the Venrok see this and make a final play to kidnap someone important to our cause, and with this leverage, combined with a common enemy, we take to the stars to destroy them together and prevail. All the while, we know this is only a temporary alliance, and with the knowledge of something important we learned on the Venrok world, we return to earth to cleanse it of their kind.

[dakdaros]

hmmm....I kind of like that. They have some other types of magic, but humans managed to figure out how to use it for destruction, and that's what they really want. Should we have healing magic? Maybe it's also that which the Venrok want. The magic humans know.

[dakdaros]

@walterthearchitect I don't know fully know about that. I think while the end game would be super interesting with 3 sided battles going on. But all of a sudden we just up and start kicking the shit out of a race that has fucked our people over for a century and a half? Even if they're ravaged by the battles with the Overlord race, the other races would be too. Plus, how would we get to the stars?

[walterthearchitect]

No, I mean we are forced to ally with the Venrok, and go to their home planet, which has been invaded by stronger beings. We are able to defeat these overlords with our magic, and in the process, we learn some weakness of the venrok that allows us to defeat them when we return home.

[dakdaros]

Hmmmmmm...What if, at that point, we are given the option, as players, to continue on the final quest line to defeat the Venrok, or stop the fighting right then and there?

[walterthearchitect]

Yea that could be a good choice, but there would have to be a cool reason not to kick their asses.

[dakdaros]

lol, agreed.

[ruba1987]

FYI forking a story line like that is going to likely be a real bitch to code and develop. How about we make that as like DLC or something? I would rather keep things relatively simple and straight forward as this is (hopefully) going to our first real game. I mean, I have made other stuff but I don't have a launch title or anything but this game itself is going to a tall order as it is. I think we can decide on an ending once we get the story really rolling and get closer to an end game.

Don't get me wrong, I love that we have the ideas flowing and I really love the direction but we have a long way to go before we really get there. I have a feeling it's going to take us some time to really lay down the foundation for this and I would like to try to focus on getting some sort of foundation for the game together.

[walterthearchitect]

I agree about the forking story. I don't think those artificial choices are really what people want anymore anyway.

I hear you on the straightforward thing. All I need to move forward on environment design is a rough idea of locales. The current list is this:

European start area (countryside or city?) Base 1 (maybe European countryside, maybe forest) Base 2 (desert tunnels maybe) Venrok homeworld Base 3 (arctic maybe)

Various cities and towns, probably 15 dungeons, 5 towns, 1-2 cities, and 1 base per area.

[ruba1987]

@walterthearchitect run with it man. I like the idea. I think we should scale things down quite a bit though. I want people to basically be able to run from place to place. IDK if you have played anything like WoW but I was thinking making things relatively instanced based. each city/town/dungeon etc is an instance and each wilderness area is an instance.

The way it would work would be like this. You leave city one (get a brief loading screen) and enter a forest or something that is between you and other locations you want to go to. Traverse that location to where you want to be and go into the next city (with a brief loading screen). Fluid locations like you see in some games where you rarely have load screens is tough to do bc they don't keep it all in memory, they detect where the player is moving and load it on the fly. While it's not outside of my skill set to do something like that I just think it would be time that would be better spent on other things.

With that just use your best judgement and go from there and if you need direction or something or aren't sure about something just post something in the issue I created for the map (or whatever issue you're working on) with someone "@ProjectRPG/designers" tagged in it and we can collaborate on it. from the sounds of things your vision and intuition is pretty inline with ours so I'm not too concerned.

[walterthearchitect]

Oh yea all the cities/bases/dungeons would be instanced for sure. Sounds good.

[ruba1987]

@walterthearchitect The map is going to pushed to git so this weekend I will get you set up with that and show you how to use it and stuff so you can commit it.

[dakdaros]

Those all sounds like solid plans on the World Map and surrounding areas. And I thought the fork was kind of silly after I initially brought it up.

[ruba1987]

@ProjectRPG/thinktank Hey Guys! So I read over the intro that @dakdaros wrote up and I really like where we are going but I think it needs a bit if fine tuning and trimming down. I was thinking the first paragraph or two could be changed to something like this:

" From whence they came we do not know, yet they came in force with powers unknown. In 705, the year of our Lord, the Venrok set forth a chain of events that would alter the world forever.

They spread like a disease throughout the lands killing all in their path. As they marched, their army grew smaller as they left behind warriors to fortify camps. These camps would soon turn into large cities with towering walls shrouded in mystery.

Shortly after the Venrok's march ended the world as we knew it began to change. "

At this point we could go into how it changed and the fact that we got some magical powers and stuff. I think the big stuff we can cut out would be the part about us trying to attack them on a large scale and really anything about us attempting to go against them except for maybe a little bit at the end to lead into why you are here. The reason I think we can do that is it will be good in game dialogue. We don't want them to have to sit through too much before they can start playing and I think we only need to give them information that direct to the story in here.

What I mean by this is we should give them enough information to be intrigued but not so much as to bore them. Some players will want more and some will want less. To give the players that want more what they want we will add the those details as optional conversations to have with the locals or something. For example, the part about the spies and the fact that we even used spies, put that on an old lady in the camp you start in saying something like "Ohhh *tears"... My son was killed by those Venrok! said he would be safe, that it was a simple information gathering mission and that I had nothing to worry about".

To cater to the other half of the players we can allow them to skip all of the chats w/ esc or something.

What do you guys think? I also think that taking some of it out in general and putting it into the characters themselves makes it seem a bit more real to the players.

[ruba1987]

@ProjectRPG/thinktank what do you think about this?

[walterthearchitect]

I agree that it's best to tell a lot of this back story through more optional means. The intro should be more immediately informational, and story can unfold over time.

[dakdaros]

So, I talked to RJ tonight about this, but I figured I'd get it in writing somewhere. I think a good idea, and I think @walterthearchitect touched on it earlier, is to not refer to the other races as aliens at all, but make it more of an organic feel. I want there to be arguments amongst players whether the other races are aliens or beings from other realms, a la fantastic races. I want to blur those lines a bit.

Also, as @walterthearchitect and I discussed, the year itself should not be made mention. That way we can be slightly more liberal in the sense we don't have to be very accurate historically (at least before the invasion). That way, we don't have to worry about a particular weapon type or shield being from that time period or not.

Also, Walter raised another great idea, that I'm sure he had mentioned before. And that is thinking of all the ways that having the other races around affects the world that was very, well, primitive as compared to modern times. I had toyed with the idea in the beginning, but there should be a cult of people who think the Venrok are gods. I picture crazy people like the dude in Whiterun in Skyrim, as well as fanatic spies everywhere.

[walterthearchitect]

YES to all of this!

[ruba1987]

@ProjectRPG/designers I agree with all of this as well. They are very solid ideas.

[dakdaros]

So I updated the intro and shortened quite a bit. I think it's a fantastic step forward in progress. Then my mind decided to go ahead and turn to mush towards the end. All in all, I think it's a much better draft, and inevitably getting us closer to the final product. What do you guys think?

Also, as a side thought, since we're doing the opening and cutscenes like pages out of the book, I pictured that the first screen shown from the player's point of view could have the words "Your story begins..." in fancy lettering that slowly fades out. Could be cool, could be dumb. I'm open to your thoughts.

[walterthearchitect]

OK guys so I was thinking about the storyline, and I think it lends itself very well to an episodic structure (chapters, in our book). I think our development plan should center around these hub areas, with one hub being one chapter. We're really already doing this, but as we flesh out the story, we should be sure to have an exciting resolution for each chapter, leading to a hint of the next area our heroes travel to. Then we can release teaser trailers and what not.

Each hub area can be 2 or 3 kilometers square, with 10-15hrs of exploration and mission gameplay, released separately as DLC. Maybe 10-20 bucks. Each DLC expands the world and story, and also allows the player to travel back to previous hubs they have completed, so it's not a one way expansion. Players will unlock more powers and abilities each chapter and be able to go back to previous hubs and kick ass on the enemies there.

I think if we consider this as our strategy, it will help us structure our goals well in every area. It helps us write a well paced story, clarifies our scope for environments, and limits what enemies/abilities/weapons we need per stage.

Plus, and I know this is super early on to mention, it opens us up to a quicker payday if this thing takes off, so we can fund future development. I hate this "open alpha" thing developers are doing now. It's lazy, and most of the time, people are over the game before its even finished. If we can make a smallish, finished product, and deliver it well, people will be chomping at the bit for more.

I like to go into any project expecting it to be a fantastic success, so forgive me if I sound over eager. I think we've been making an effort to think of things in a modular way, and this is the application of that idea on the grand scale.

Anyway, thoughts?

[ruba1987]

I completely agree with all of this. Tommy and I had talked about doing this in chapters and that's how it's listed in the story line section of the wiki.

And I also agree with your mentality on the game. This is going to be a hit!

[walterthearchitect]

@MuttStudio/themutts

So I've been playing with some stuff, and I think I came up with a cool idea for the overall story. I was thinking about the world, and specifically how the magic, the mysterious obelisks, and the opacis' race of progenitors tie together, and I think I have a story of how our gang came to be imprisoned in the mines. A lot of this information could be introduced in discussions between characters during travel time, like Left 4 Dead does it, or in the way Tommy and I discussed, using world integrated flashback tableaux. Few cutscenes, if any.

OK so this got SUPER long because I was mega bored at work today. I'll give you the TL;DR.

In an effort to control the spread and misuse of magic in the universe, the Ancient Opacis visited young planets and placed obelisks on them that essentially locked away their magic until the return of an Opacis emissary when the planets were deemed ready. Over thousands of years, the Opacis kept these locations closely guarded, and enforced restrictions on its own people's wielding of violent magic in an effort to keep the peace. Our playable Opacis is an enforcer of these laws who disobeys when the Venrok attack and his people are not willing to do what must be done. His home world is destroyed, and he is imprisoned to work for the Venrok mining each world they come to drain of its magic. The Venrok get their asses kicked destroying the Robur homeworld, and limp to Earth hoping to recover, but find the planet devoid of magic, stranding them on earth and forcing them to take a simpler form, inhabiting inanimate objects. They keep a low profile, and begin searching for Earth's magic.

Meanwhile, the Opacis and friends are rescued, and they encounter these magic trapping obelisks, which react to the Opacis, thinking he is an emissary come to release magic into the world. The catch is, it doesn't quite work, because one of the 4 obelisks is missing from the mountain. Later we find it and was thrown from the mountain into the sea long ago when the mountain was an active volcano, and is the magical foundation on which the holy site of Mount. St. Michael is built, giving the island special properties. The problem is, when they encountered the Obelisks and activated them, it drew the Venrok's attention, and they attacked and captured all 3 cities in the region in a power grab to control the region and seize the magic they now know it contains. The Venrok can't do anything with the obelisks because the Opacis holds the key, but they don't know that, and they make the people suffer in an effort to learn the secret of the Obelisks. The gang must take back the towns to free the people from suffering and push the Venrok from this land, and eventually the world.

OK now the long part:

So as Tommy and I discussed before during the character discussion, the Opacis came from an ancient civilization where magic is heavily regulated. Certain kinds of magic are outlawed due to a belief that violence is unacceptable under any circumstances. Past wars and loss led them to make harsh laws. Our character was en enforcer of these laws, until he learned of the coming Venrok attack. After centuries of peace, his people seem blind to what must be done. We don't get into the specifics yet, but essentially he breaks the code and uses the forbidden magic, but it is too late. The Venrok destroy his home world, and he is captured.

He is forced to work for decades for the Venrok, who brand their workers with a magical mark that kills their ability to wield magic as they mine for it in a planet's depths. He travels from planet to planet, helping to drain them, until they arrive on the Robur home world. The battle here is hard fought, and the Venrok find little magic left in this world, as the Robur have nearly used it up, and have transitioned to a hyper technology civilization with little need for magic.

The Venrok are badly crippled from the war, and in need of magic. They choose a young world, thinking it will be simple to take its resources. The Venrok barely make it to Earth, and arrive only to find that there seems to be very little magic here. They dig, and find the resource, but it is weak and short lived, the crystals able to be crushed in the hand to gain a moment of power, but it seems to fade away too quickly. In desperation to conserve their energy, they abandon their natural forms to inhabit inanimate objects until they can find a way to harness this power.

We come into the story as the Opacis, Robur, Sicarus, and Human are locked away in the mines, being forced to work on Earth. The Opacis has been working for decades across worlds. The Robur was picked up in the last invasion of his home world. The Sicarus was once a human, but has been experimented on by the Venrok, and subsequently forced to work in the mines. The human's daughter was taken from her by the Venrok, and she was captured trying to find her.

At this point, the Venrok are too weak, and have not attacked the humans directly, though they have been here a couple years. They are more a rumor, or a boogie man. Disappearances, tales of being attacked in the woods by corpses or rocks, believed by some, but not all.

The gang are rescued by the captain of the guard at Mount St. Michael. He is heroic, and gives the players a tease of what abilities can be possible later on, though their brands prevent them from doing any magic yet. Your escape is led by the brave captain and a few of his men. You fight your way out and just as you are all going to board boats to escape, the captain is taken prisoner. You are forced to escape without him, on your way to Mount St. Michael.

Upon arriving, you meet the head priest, who welcomes you, and informs you that on this island, God is ever present. On this holy site, unnatural things are possible. With that, he removes the Venrok brands and you begin to gain your first magic abilities. What this means is that there is at least one place where magic is still alive on the earth. Could there be others?

Your first mission is issued by the Quartermaster of the Mount to find the captain. It leads you to the three towns following a trail of clues of his whereabouts. This travel is for the purpose of finding the captain, but also introduces you to the towns and their unique problems before the Venrok capture them. This way, you are connected to the people in the towns before you liberate them and subsequently solve their problems. First you arrive in Coast town, and are introduced to the imprisoned Lord, then your mission takes you to River Town, where you met the warring families, and finally to Mountain Town where you encounter the cultists, disorganized and mysterious at the moment.

In the Mountain Town, as you reach the summit searching for the Captain, you see the Obelisks for the first time. Embedded into the mountain, 3 huge, blackened forms, facing each other in a circle, with space for a fourth, which seems to be missing. The Opacis has a strange feeling arriving in this place. The Obelisks seem to react as he draws near. In the center of the circle lies the captain, unconscious or dead, we can't be sure. As they rush to him, suddenly magical creatures are born out of the obelisks, blocking his way. The team must help him reach the center. After reaching the center, they must defend the unconscious captain. After the battle is over, out of the center of the circle right next to the captain rises a staff, glowing on both ends. The opacis seizes it, confused and in wonder. He seems to vaguely recognize this staff, though its origins are unknown to him, as well as that of the Obelisks.

I've got more but I'm heading home now. The conclusion is in the TL;DR, but with little detail. Anyway I rambled. Lots of ideas today.