[New NIP]: Treasury Fund & Burn

[IWantMoreDecred]

Proposal Description

I noticed the other proposal about funding such things via taking a portion of stake rewards from nodes but I think that may be a problem because we dont' have a lot of nodes & it punishes what few we have, so it isn't likely to make a ton of money.. and only the nodes would feel the pain.

My idea is to leave the stake reward mechanism alone & tackle funding by taxing the MOVEMENT of NEBL. Then EVERYONE shares in the pain of taxation..

Think about it.. we are getting businesses building on NEBLIO.. they have high tps needs.. with each transaction that anyone does on a send.. or creating a NTP1 token.. or creating an NFT or moving the NFT.. or supply chain..

I have noticed there is a lot more nebl's being moved around because of these enterprises starting to do stuff on our chain.

Also, I know some people do not like the inflation rate on NEBL.. so here is how i would address both things..

By adding in a tax that increases the gas fee by a tiny base rate that has half go to the Treasury & the other half gets Burned

This would be like ethereum's new "EIP-1559" burn mechanism, which introduced adding in a base fee to EVERY eth gas Tx. Since it is unlikely that Neblio will ever get up to Ethereum's prices in the foreseeable future, i believe we could also afford to do this same idea in a stronger way. So maybe we could do it like ethereum does it but the base fee could be double or triple or more than whatever ethereum's new base fee is. If, for some reason, NEBLs ever got to be hundreds or thousands of dollars [which i doubt], then we could adjust the fee to tone it down since there will be likely much more activity by then anyways.

the "Treasury" would get it's own label & would sit above the "Furnace" in our block explorer for everyone to see.. & the portion that gets burned would go right into the furnace where we can see that too to measure it's performance.

This would help DEFLATE nebl to fight inflation while giving us a treasury to spend with.

for the time being the Neblio team can handle the treasury spends & in the future we maybe can make it more advanced into a way we can control even more in a decentralized way.. but for the time being it would have to be centralized.

And i suggest that Each time NEBL is pulled from it to spend on something, a little metadata NOTE is added in to detail what that transaction is being spent on so that we can all see if we want.

As for how much to raise the Transaction fees by for this additional base fee amount that it be something small. i don't know what figure to set it as because i'm not sure how many TXs we get in a day, but it should be set to something where we can afford to do something worthwhile with at least a year's worth of accumulation.

Also, since the Treasury address would be a known.. We could have the treasury labeled in the block explorer with the name "Neblio Treasury [Accepting Donations too]" in case anyone wants to be generous to speed things up by manually sending some NEBLs to it. Some rich dude might do that to help speed up an exchange listing or to get a NeblioMask browser extension developed, which we sorely need both of.

Proposal Voting Details

30 days, which i think adds up to 86,400 blocks

Other Information

none

[Crypt0daz]

I personally love the idea of a community fund, and burn mechanism. I don't like the idea of increasing fees though. I believe encouraging more usage with lower fees, is by far more worthwhile. A burn mechanism of all transaction fee's rather than going to stakers would get my vote though. Maybe at the same time increasing inflation 1% to cover the community fund?

This then keeps staking rewards at 10% (a nice number for people). Hopefully over time the transaction fee burn alone will then counter the 1%, and eventually the 10%. I think anything that discourages usage of the network is too risky this early on.

[IWantMoreDecred]

the fees are so incredibly cheap as it is that i think we have room to breathe increasing it & they'd still be super cheap.

it cost a fraction of a cent. who can complain if we doubled that or tripled that?

This is the path ethereum is taking.

Oh and about the 10% inflation. i am pretty sure the way it works is when there is no activity on the chain we have 10% inflation IF and ONLY IF every bit of NEBL in existence is being staked. So since a very large portion is not being staked.. much of which is on exchanges being traded around.. that means we don't actually have 10% inflation.. probably more like half or less of that.

BUT, that is only if no activity is on the chain.. When there are transactions happening.. the gas fees pay the nodes. When that happens, then the network mints less NEBL because the gas is covering the Nodes. the 10% stake rate only generates 10% of what is being staked in newly minted NEBL if there are zero tx happening on the network. If there is a lot of gas fees being paid to nodes then that 10% minting diminishes more and more until it's totally canceled out.

so this means if we ever reach a point where we have a lot of activity happening on-chain to cover all of the nodes from the gas paid to them then the supply of NEBL will stop growing & it will become a deflationary coin.. with 0% inflation.

at least this is what i was told when i was talking to someone when i first learned about neblio. i forget who i was talking to.

maybe Neblioteam can correct me if im wrong.

[Jake2270]

I personally love the idea of a community fund, and burn mechanism. I don't like the idea of increasing fees though. I believe encouraging more usage with lower fees, is by far more worthwhile. A burn mechanism of all transaction fee's rather than going to stakers would get my vote though. Maybe at the same time increasing inflation 1% to cover the community fund?

This then keeps staking rewards at 10% (a nice number for people). Hopefully over time the transaction fee burn alone will then counter the 1%, and eventually the 10%. I think anything that discourages usage of the network is too risky this early on.

I like this idea 👍 Can we put this to a vote? @NeblioTeam ? Or maybe a little more feedback needed?

[Jake2270]

the fees are so incredibly cheap as it is that i think we have room to breathe increasing it & they'd still be super cheap.

it cost a fraction of a cent. who can complain if we doubled that or tripled that?

This is the path ethereum is taking.

Oh and about the 10% inflation. i am pretty sure the way it works is when there is no activity on the chain we have 10% inflation IF and ONLY IF every bit of NEBL in existence is being staked. So since a very large portion is not being staked.. much of which is on exchanges being traded around.. that means we don't actually have 10% inflation.. probably more like half or less of that.

BUT, that is only if no activity is on the chain.. When there are transactions happening.. the gas fees pay the nodes. When that happens, then the network mints less NEBL because the gas is covering the Nodes. the 10% stake rate only generates 10% of what is being staked in newly minted NEBL if there are zero tx happening on the network. If there is a lot of gas fees being paid to nodes then that 10% minting diminishes more and more until it's totally canceled out.

so this means if we ever reach a point where we have a lot of activity happening on-chain to cover all of the nodes from the gas paid to them then the supply of NEBL will stop growing & it will become a deflationary coin.. with 0% inflation.

at least this is what i was told when i was talking to someone when i first learned about neblio. i forget who i was talking to.

maybe Neblioteam can correct me if im wrong.

@NeblioTeam What do you think about this proposal?

[nebliodev]

BUT, that is only if no activity is on the chain.. When there are transactions happening.. the gas fees pay the nodes. When that happens, then the network mints less NEBL because the gas is covering the Nodes. the 10% stake rate only generates 10% of what is being staked in newly minted NEBL if there are zero tx happening on the network. If there is a lot of gas fees being paid to nodes then that 10% minting diminishes more and more until it's totally canceled out.

Currently, this is not the case. Stake rewards and transaction fees are handled totally separately and do not influence each other, however both currently go to the staker that generated the block.

@NeblioTeam What do you think about this proposal?

We try to abstain from providing our personal opinions on proposals we did not write ourselves, for risk of influencing the vote.

There seems to be a lot of ideas in this, and the other similar proposals, however I'm not sure we've nailed down the details yet. Proposals need to be written such that if the vote is successful, they have all of the details so that they can be implemented by the dev team without further discussion.

Is this proposal just to take the current tx fee, burn half of it, and send the other half to a community fund? Or just a burn? Or are there other changes around inflation requested?

Once all the details are settled in this thread, the submitter of the NIP just needs to call for a vote to be scheduled and then we will get it scheduled immediately.

[Jake2270]

BUT, that is only if no activity is on the chain.. When there are transactions happening.. the gas fees pay the nodes. When that happens, then the network mints less NEBL because the gas is covering the Nodes. the 10% stake rate only generates 10% of what is being staked in newly minted NEBL if there are zero tx happening on the network. If there is a lot of gas fees being paid to nodes then that 10% minting diminishes more and more until it's totally canceled out.

Currently, this is not the case. Stake rewards and transaction fees are handled totally separately and do not influence each other, however both currently go to the staker that generated the block.

@NeblioTeam What do you think about this proposal?

We try to abstain from providing our personal opinions on proposals we did not write ourselves, for risk of influencing the vote.

There seems to be a lot of ideas in this, and the other similar proposals, however I'm not sure we've nailed down the details yet. Proposals need to be written such that if the vote is successful, they have all of the details so that they can be implemented by the dev team without further discussion.

Is this proposal just to take the current tx fee, burn half of it, and send the other half to a community fund? Or just a burn? Or are there other changes around inflation requested?

Once all the details are settled in this thread, the submitter of the NIP just needs to call for a vote to be scheduled and then we will get it scheduled immediately.

@Shane-Neblio over to you then.

[IWantMoreDecred]

BUT, that is only if no activity is on the chain.. When there are transactions happening.. the gas fees pay the nodes. When that happens, then the network mints less NEBL because the gas is covering the Nodes. the 10% stake rate only generates 10% of what is being staked in newly minted NEBL if there are zero tx happening on the network. If there is a lot of gas fees being paid to nodes then that 10% minting diminishes more and more until it's totally canceled out.

Currently, this is not the case. Stake rewards and transaction fees are handled totally separately and do not influence each other, however both currently go to the staker that generated the block.

wait a minute, so you are saying that we earn 10% per year PLUS tx fees on top of that!?

so if Neblio ever became used a lot, where tons of gas is being spent, a node could earn an unlimited amount with no caps if the tx's kept increasing? that would mean 10% is just our base-earning potential but has so much extra earning potential beyond

[nebliodev]

Yes, 100% of the transaction fees for all transactions in a block, go to the staker that generated that block. This is completely separate from the stake reward itself.

Bitcoin mining, for example, is the same. BTC miners currently receive a 6.25 BTC block reward + 100% of the transaction fees included in the block, for every block they mine.

[IWantMoreDecred]

Is this proposal just to take the current tx fee, burn half of it, and send the other half to a community fund? Or just a burn? Or are there other changes around inflation requested?

no you got me wrong. my idea was NOT to do with burning existing tx fees

What my idea was for the formation of this proposal was that we leave the relationship alone between the node and how much they earn from tx fees.. and we add in an ADDITIONAL fee.. which i'm now calling a "base-fee"... that no matter how much someone wants to spend on gas, they MUST always pay the base fee.

this is what ethereum is doing now. they added this feature last year. its called "EIP-1559"

so lets say in ethereum the nodes can choose their fees.. well, there is a base amount of extra fee added into ethereum now that forces all nodes to charge that base-fee as extra than what they use to do. it's not paid to them. it's paid to the burn address.

go read up on ethereum's EIP-1559 change. then you will understand what my proposal is about.

So lets say if we made our base fee as 0.01 NEBL. this would mean that, no matter what, we could never pay less than that much in gas. we can pay more, but NOT less to do any tx. & the base-fee of 0.01 NEBL would NOT be paid to the nodes. Only what is above that much would be paid to nodes in gas. The base 0.01 NEBL would be taxation.. that gets split down the middle.. one half, 0.005 NEBL going to treasury & the other half, 0.005 NEBL going to the Furnace.

so then nothing changes associated with any gas nodes get in rewards.. it's just this extra base amount is there to tax the spenders. so nodes are not affected in any way. they neither gain nor are punished by this. It punishes only the sender.

[IWantMoreDecred]

Yes, 100% of the transaction fees for all transactions in a block, go to the staker that generated that block. This is completely separate from the stake reward itself.

Bitcoin mining, for example, is the same. BTC miners currently receive a 6.25 BTC block reward + 100% of the transaction fees included in the block, for every block they mine.

that's awesome. I didn't realize that. all this time i thought i was capped out at 10% no matter what happens on-chain.

i will have to use what i've learned in my promotions of nebl then. tell them they earn 10% + whatever tx gas fees they earn in a block. All this time i've been telling people they could only earn 10%.

You should do a youtube video clarifying this and pin it. it would promote it more because i don't think i've heard a single other person talk of nebl mention this.. so i think the world doesn't know.

[RasmonT]

I really like the EIP-1559 ETH update, the burn mechanism they made it's really good and thanks to it, it also deflated currency.

About treasury from the fee, I would split it like 30% to the treasury and 70% to the burn address. Question is, if we really want to increase or rather said create some sort of base FEE like on ETH. I can imagine that base fee on NEBL ex. 0.005 Neblio at price of 100$ this fee would cost 0,5$, Neblio at price 1000$ this fee would cost 5$ (current ETH based fee +-)

I definitely agree with this idea and would vote Yes for it, but we need to think about the base fee and how to split it between treasury and burn mechanism. So I'm open for further discussion as I would like to support a idea of this mechanism on the Neblio network.