Closed AlexHgO closed 2 years ago
Fengchao: I think other things (like uncheck ‘protein level summary’ box) will not work for him. We need to pass him pre-release of FragPipe with min prob option in Percolator (set to 0.5 or even higher for that much data).
Alex: you would only need to rerun from Validation step, so it should be fast compared to the search step. And we do recommend Percolator with MSFragger-DIA (assuming this is what you run in DIA_SpecLib_Quant)
Best Alexey
From: Alexander Hogrebe @.> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 6:24 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Subscribed @.***> Subject: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
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Hi FragPipe Team,
As pointed out in my Twitter threadhttps://twitter.com/AlexHgO/status/1476273931094921221 that you kindly answered to, I am contacting you because the largest FragPipe analysis I am trying to run so far ran out of memory during the Philosopher filter step. The analysis consists of:
It would probably work with better data filtering (e.g. the Percolator min setting pointed out in this threadhttps://github.com/Nesvilab/FragPipe/issues/538, which I do not have access to though). I tried using localization filtering via PTMprophet, but it significantly increased processing time and I think also storage space needed.
I have already successfully analyzed the data with the DDA files for library generation only, but was hoping that using the DIA files as well would give me a boost for IDs and quants. I would be curious for your suggestions, or if this is just a bit too ambitious.
Thanks a lot in advance for your help, very much appreciate this great program! Best, Alex
log_2021-12-29_13-13-17.ziphttps://github.com/Nesvilab/FragPipe/files/7790896/log_2021-12-29_13-13-17.zip
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Right, need to use the pre-released version.
Hi @AlexHgO , can you try the version from https://www.dropbox.com/s/kewu5bscaqq6awv/FragPipe-17.2-build7.zip?dl=1 ? As Alexey suggested, you can disable all steps before FDR Filter and Report
step to save some time.
Best,
Fengchao
I think he will need to rerun with Percolator and higher min probability like 0.7 Just retuning from filter will not make any difference?
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From: Fengchao @.> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 9:07:05 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Nesvizhskii, Alexey @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
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Right, need to use the pre-released version.
Hi @AlexHgOhttps://github.com/AlexHgO , can you try the version from https://www.dropbox.com/s/kewu5bscaqq6awv/FragPipe-17.2-build7.zip?dl=1 ? As Alexey suggested, you can disable all steps before FDR Filter and Report step to save some time.
Best,
Fengchao
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Oh, right. Need to rerun from Percolator.
Best,
Fengchao
Actually, need to re-run from MSBooster, otherwise, FragPipe won't give the edited pin files to Percolator.
Best,
Fengchao
Awesome, thank you both so much. I'll try it out and report back
Happy new year everyone! As promised I'm reporting back, and unfortunately it still fails. I reran the whole dataset but with these changes:
But yeah, it again crashed at the Philosopher Filter step: runtime: VirtualAlloc of 16384 bytes failed with errno=1455 fatal error: out of memory
Do you have any other ideas I could try? I'm only interested in peptide-level phospho analysis, maybe there's options to deactivate? Otherwise I guess I'll just have to split up the dataset. Thanks again for all the help! Best, Alex
How much RAM do you have on your computer? You can try to increase Percolator min 0.7 to 0.9. I was able to run larger datasets but I have more memory, like 128Gb Alexey
From: Alexander Hogrebe @.> Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:01 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Nesvizhskii, Alexey @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
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Happy new year everyone! As promised I'm reporting back, and unfortunately it still fails. I reran the whole dataset but with these changes:
But yeah, it again crashed at the Philosopher Filter step: runtime: VirtualAlloc of 16384 bytes failed with errno=1455 fatal error: out of memory
Do you have any other ideas I could try? I'm only interested in peptide-level phospho analysis, maybe there's options to deactivate? Otherwise I guess I'll just have to split up the dataset. Thanks again for all the help! Best, Alex
log_2022-01-05_08-46-36.ziphttps://github.com/Nesvilab/FragPipe/files/7816507/log_2022-01-05_08-46-36.zip
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I am afraid that other than increasing the min probability
from 0.7 to, say, 0.8 or even 0.9, in Percolator panel, there is no other way. The Philosopher filter is the step performing FDR filtering, which cannot be bypassed.
BTW, I see that you enabled PTMProphet but disabled MSBooster. I think you need to enable MSBooster but disable PTMProphet because we don't use the localization probability in the spectral library generation.
Best,
Fengchao
As a note, PTM-Prophet may relocalize some sites (not many, probably), but yes the localization probability is not propagated in the library files. But in one analysis, we used the localization probability from the PSM.tsv files to annotate entries in the DIA-NN output files that corresponded to peptides with localized sites (from the library building stage). This is not the same as localization purely from the DIA data, but at least something.
From: Fengchao @.> Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:16 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Nesvizhskii, Alexey @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
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I am afraid that other than increasing the min probability from 0.7 to, say, 0.8 or even 0.9, in Percolator panel, there is no other way. The Philosopher filter is the step performing FDR filtering, which cannot be bypassed.
BTW, I see that you enabled PTMProphet but disabled MSBooster. I think you need to enable MSBooster but disable PTMProphet because we don't use the localization probability in the spectral library generation.
Best,
Fengchao
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Hi Alexey and Fengchao, Our computer has 128GB RAM and I'm not going to have more than that any time soon haha. Oh no, I didn't catch that MSBooster was deactivated - thanks for pointing that out! My hope with running PTMprophet min 0.5 was that it would kick out peptides below that cutoff (thus reducing search results) - but I guess that is not the case? It also takes very long (~2 days out of the 6 it's been running), so I'm happy to deactivate it. For DIA PTM localization I'm using DIANN command line options, so that's not a problem.
I guess I'll try to rerun it with a higher cutoff then, and if that still does not work will split up the dataset instead. Thanks again for the tips and quick replies! Really appreciate your work.
I see you have ton of PSMs above 0.7
INFO[06:43:30] 1+ Charge profile decoy=13074 target=122448 INFO[06:43:51] 2+ Charge profile decoy=240634 target=9663097 INFO[06:43:56] 3+ Charge profile decoy=378259 target=27006336 INFO[06:43:58] 4+ Charge profile decoy=216231 target=28671829 INFO[06:43:59] 5+ Charge profile decoy=456 target=16297 INFO[06:44:00] 6+ Charge profile decoy=20 target=354
I would go to 0.9 or even 0.99… Try with 0.99 first
We will also start looking into how to deal with it better in philosopher …
Alexey
From: Alexander Hogrebe @.> Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:37 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Nesvizhskii, Alexey @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
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Hi Alexey and Fengchao, Our computer has 128GB RAM and I'm not going to have more than that any time soon haha. Oh no, I didn't catch that MSBooster was deactivated - thanks for pointing that out! My hope with running PTMprophet min 0.5 was that it would kick out peptides below that cutoff (thus reducing search results) - but I guess that is not the case? It also takes very long (~2 days out of the 6 it's been running), so I'm happy to deactivate it. For DIA PTM localization I'm using DIANN command line options, so that's not a problem.
I guess I'll try to rerun it with a higher cutoff then, and if that still does not work will split up the dataset instead. Thanks again for the tips and quick replies! Really appreciate your work.
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@AlexHgO you can also consider increasing the swap size to be used as the RAM runs out of space. https://superuser.com/questions/793304/how-to-increase-swap-memory-in-windows Ref: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/33716#issuecomment-582193124
I don't think it helps much. Philosopher also already takes lots of disk space: https://twitter.com/AlexHgO/status/1476273931094921221?s=20 . And it would be super slow.
Best.
Fengchao
Hi again, So, I set Percolator min to 0.99, activated MSBooster, deactivated PTMprophet and increased virtual memory to 32-64GB. But unfortunately it crashed again... I guess I'll have to split the dataset up right?
I am afraid so. BTW, the out-of-memory error message seems from different places:
C:\Software\FragPipe-17.0\tools\philosopher\philosopher.exe filter --picked --prot 0.01 --tag rev_ --pepxml E:\Alex\MSF_output --protxml E:\Alex\MSF_output\combined.prot.xml --razor
INFO[03:30:07] Executing Filter v4.1.0
INFO[03:30:07] Processing peptide identification files
runtime: VirtualAlloc of 96747618304 bytes failed with errno=1455
fatal error: out of memory
Last time, it was from
C:\Software\FragPipe-17.0\tools\philosopher\philosopher.exe filter --picked --prot 0.01 --tag rev_ --pepxml E:\Alex\MSF_output --protxml E:\Alex\MSF_output\combined.prot.xml --razor
INFO[04:58:12] Executing Filter v4.1.0
INFO[04:58:12] Processing peptide identification files
INFO[06:43:30] 1+ Charge profile decoy=13074 target=122448
INFO[06:43:51] 2+ Charge profile decoy=240634 target=9663097
INFO[06:43:56] 3+ Charge profile decoy=378259 target=27006336
INFO[06:43:58] 4+ Charge profile decoy=216231 target=28671829
INFO[06:43:59] 5+ Charge profile decoy=456 target=16297
INFO[06:44:00] 6+ Charge profile decoy=20 target=354
runtime: VirtualAlloc of 16384 bytes failed with errno=1455
fatal error: out of memory
At any rate, I think we should discuss internally how to solve this issue.
Best,
Fengchao
@AlexHgO Can you tell me how many pep.xml files you have, and their average size? Also, it doesn't look like you're following Alexey's suggestions to keep only the top scoring identifications, so I suggest you start by testing that.
Hi Felipe @prvst ,
I think I can clarify something for him. There should be 550 * 5
pep.xml files. He is following our suggestion to set min probability
to a large value for Percolator. He set it to 0.99, which is very stringent to me, but there are still not enough memory for Philosopher to continue.
Best,
Fengchao
Does that mean the lowest probability in the pep.xml is also 0.99?
@prvst thanks for your comment! I have 2204 .pep.xml files (1 per DDA, 3 per DIA-GPF and 5 per DIA) with a total size of 37.5 GB. Average file size is roughly (!) 10-50MB, depending on type and rank. This is after setting Percolator threshold to min 0.99. Sorry, I don't think I understand the "keep only the top scoring identifications" - maybe I missed that in Alexey's messages after rereading them?? I'm still pretty new to FragPipe so sorry if I missed something obvious.
Does that mean the lowest probability in the pep.xml is also 0.99?
@prvst Correct.
@AlexHgO How much RAM you have available?
128 GB RAM + 32-64 GB virtual RAM
@AlexHgO Alexey suggested ignoring everything else that has a probability score lower than 0.99, we do that by adding the flag --pepProb 0.99
. However, if the files are filtered already, then you have two options; 1) You separate your data into smaller sets, and filter them separately or 2) find a computer with more RAM.
There's not much one can do with so much data like that, the program will have to load everything in memory, and still allocate extra space for its data structures and processing. I believe that your analysis is still doable, you might just need to brake the files into smaller groups.
@AlexHgO Alexey suggested ignoring everything else that has a probability score lower than 0.99, we do that by adding the flag
--pepProb 0.99
. However, if the files are filtered already, then you have two options; 1) You separate your data into smaller sets, and filter them separately or 2) find a computer with more RAM.
Felipe @prvst , do you mean that by adding --pepProb 0.99
to the Philosopher filter command, it will skip the PSMs with probability < 0.99 when loading the interact.pep.xml?
If so, should it be --psmProb
rather than --pepProb
because that is the PSM-level probability?
I also see that in Philosopher wiki (https://github.com/Nesvilab/philosopher/wiki/Filter), it says "top peptide probability threshold for the FDR filtering (default 0.7)". Does it mean that Philosopher always filter out PSMs with probability < 0.7 by default?
If so, we should set the default value of min prob
to 0.7 for PeptideProphet and Percolator since Philosopher will filter them out in any way.
Thanks,
Fengchao
Felipe @prvst , do you mean that by adding --pepProb 0.99 to the Philosopher filter command, it will skip the PSMs with probability < 0.99 when loading the interact.pep.xml?
The program reads the xml file, and maps the data into an internal data structure. Identifications that fall under the thresholds are just ignored.
If so, should it be --psmProb rather than --pepProb because that is the PSM-level probability?
In theory yes. It's called like that for historical reasons, we implemented it as it is focusing only on the PeptideProphet probability. I have no objections in changing it, it's up to Alexey, I guess.
I also see that in Philosopher wiki (https://github.com/Nesvilab/philosopher/wiki/Filter), it says "top peptide probability threshold for the FDR filtering (default 0.7)". Does it mean that Philosopher always filter out PSMs with probability < 0.7 by default?
Yes. 0.7 is the baseline threshold.
Hi Felipe @prvst ,
Thanks for the clarification.
The program reads the xml file, and maps the data into an internal data structure. Identifications that fall under the thresholds are just ignored.
Does it means that the program reads in everything, then filters out low probability PSMs?
Thanks,
Fengchao
The XML is loaded into memory, but soon after, discarded
Does it load all xml files and then discards all? If so, we can discard after the file is processed, and move to next If one by one already, then the memory issue is at a later stage. Then the only solution is to store less info in the data structures. But hard for me to weight here as non-expert
From: Felipe da Veiga Leprevost @.> Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:37 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Nesvizhskii, Alexey @.>; Comment @.> Subject: Re: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
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The XML is loaded into memory, but soon after, discarded
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It reads one by one
Hi Alex, I don’t think you really need so many files. Do you have many replicates? How about using less data? The alternative is to annotate files into experiments. Say 4. First 500 in experiment A, second 500 in B, etc. Then EasyPQP will build 4 separate libraries for each set. It will use combined.proot.xml for each set, so the protein inference will eb done consistently still. Then you can merge the libraries. However, some peptides will be in multiple libraries (so several times in the merged library). Not sure how it will affect the results in DIA-NN Alexey
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@prvsthttps://github.com/prvst thanks for your comment! I have 2204 .pep.xml files (1 per DDA, 3 per DIA-GPF and 5 per DIA) with a total size of 37.5 GB. Average file size is roughly (!) 10-50MB, depending on type and rank. This is after setting Percolator threshold to min 0.99. Sorry, I don't think I understand the "keep only the top scoring identifications" - maybe I missed that in Alexey's messages after rereading them?? I'm still pretty new to FragPipe so sorry if I missed something obvious.
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Alternatively, instead of merging the libraries, you can actually pass multiple libraries to DAI-NN.
From: Nesvizhskii, Alexey Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 5:06 PM To: Nesvilab/FragPipe @.>; Nesvilab/FragPipe @.> Cc: Comment @.***> Subject: RE: [Nesvilab/FragPipe] Philosopher filter step fatal error: out of memory (Issue #569)
Hi Alex, I don’t think you really need so many files. Do you have many replicates? How about using less data? The alternative is to annotate files into experiments. Say 4. First 500 in experiment A, second 500 in B, etc. Then EasyPQP will build 4 separate libraries for each set. It will use combined.proot.xml for each set, so the protein inference will eb done consistently still. Then you can merge the libraries. However, some peptides will be in multiple libraries (so several times in the merged library). Not sure how it will affect the results in DIA-NN Alexey
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@prvsthttps://github.com/prvst thanks for your comment! I have 2204 .pep.xml files (1 per DDA, 3 per DIA-GPF and 5 per DIA) with a total size of 37.5 GB. Average file size is roughly (!) 10-50MB, depending on type and rank. This is after setting Percolator threshold to min 0.99. Sorry, I don't think I understand the "keep only the top scoring identifications" - maybe I missed that in Alexey's messages after rereading them?? I'm still pretty new to FragPipe so sorry if I missed something obvious.
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Just an update, reducing the number of DIA input files from 389 to 177 still causes 100% Ram usage, but allows the filter step to finish successfully - but then philosopher.exe report crashes due to out of memory... (I have already deactivated all summary report options except the actual filter settings)
@prvst Adding the --pepProb 0.99 to filter does not seem to make a difference (exactly same number of PSMs reported by filter). I assume because the Percolator min 0.99 threshold already does the same thing? Please let me know if I'm missing something here.
@anesvi I have 5 replicates per condition, thought of using all to get a very comprehensive library. But yeah, I'll just reduce it further until I arrive at a situation where I can pass through. I like the idea of creating separate libraries and using them together in DIANN. If that does not mess with FDR, I'll try that next
(Caveat: I tested the above using the original all files combined.prot.xml file (but removed the .pep.xml files), so I could immediately restart at the filter step)
@AlexHgO Can you post the log for the philosopher.exe report
crash too?
That is correct. If you are already increasing the Percolator threshold, then the filter threshold won't do any difference.
@guoci I'm so sorry, I can't find that log anymore!
I ended up generating 4 separate libraries and merge them with DIANN. Working with that data for now. Thanks again for all the support!
Ok, and let us know the results look at the end! We will work on the crash issue. Alexey
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@guocihttps://github.com/guoci I'm so sorry, I can't find that log anymore!
I ended up generating 4 separate libraries and merge them with DIANN. Working with that data for now. Thanks again for all the support!
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@AlexHgO the memory usage issue should be resolved in the latest release, if you are interested. https://github.com/Nesvilab/philosopher/releases/tag/v4.2.1
Hi FragPipe Team,
As pointed out in my Twitter thread that you kindly answered to, I am contacting you because the largest FragPipe analysis I am trying to run so far ran out of memory during the Philosopher filter step. The analysis consists of:
It would probably work with better data filtering (e.g. the Percolator min setting pointed out in this thread, which I do not have access to though). I tried using localization filtering via PTMprophet, but it significantly increased processing time and I think also storage space needed.
I have already successfully analyzed the data with the DDA files for library generation only, but was hoping that using the DIA files as well would give me a boost for IDs and quants. I would be curious for your suggestions, or if this is just a bit too ambitious.
Thanks a lot in advance for your help, very much appreciate this great program! Best, Alex
log_2021-12-29_13-13-17.zip