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Docker Workshop Technical Details #34

Closed davehun closed 8 years ago

davehun commented 8 years ago

I have some matterial for docker for a docker workshop. How about a date ~ 16th of june to co incide with dockercon?

davehun commented 8 years ago

Need a location with good public wifi.

glynhudson commented 8 years ago

Need a location with good public wifi.

Surprisingly hard to find! We could use large meeting room in Intec a few doors down from my office. Could share our very fast WiFi. I will find out the cost

davehun commented 8 years ago

whats it like for out of hours ?

On 11 May 2016, at 16:51, Glyn Hudson notifications@github.com wrote:

Need a location with good public wifi.

Surprisingly hard to find! We could use large meeting room in Intec a few doors down from my office. Could share our very fast WiFi. I will find out the cost

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/NorthWalesTech/NorthWalesTech/issues/34#issuecomment-218502463

glynhudson commented 8 years ago

Cost of using the big Intec meeting room is £23 for me and we can use it after hours if I take responsibility for you hooligans :-)

On 11 May 2016 at 16:55, David Hunninsett notifications@github.com wrote:

whats it like for out of hours ?

On 11 May 2016, at 16:51, Glyn Hudson notifications@github.com wrote:

Need a location with good public wifi.

Surprisingly hard to find! We could use large meeting room in Intec a few doors down from my office. Could share our very fast WiFi. I will find out the cost

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub < https://github.com/NorthWalesTech/NorthWalesTech/issues/34#issuecomment-218502463

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/NorthWalesTech/NorthWalesTech/issues/34#issuecomment-218503770

Glyn Hudson

http://megni.co.uk http://adventuresplusnorthwales.blogspot.com

robshep commented 8 years ago

I'm sure we can get Intec for free as Gwynedd Council own it and they are keen to support us.
Ty menai is also suitable.

16th is a Thursday, and i'm not sure what the take up will be midweek. Better on a Saturday?

Either way it's only a month away and we should advertise it on Thursday evening.

carwyn commented 8 years ago

We're aiming for 19th to 21st in line with DockerCon. Twitter poll favoured Monday, Facebook Sunday and Tuesday. CoWork in Pontio is available, need to test the "TheCloud" wifi for suitability. Temporary accounts may be possible for small numbers should TheCloud not work.

Can someone comment on Ty Menai and Intec wifi and internet capabilities?

This must have either bomb-proof wifi with good back-haul internet or a local docker image cache which we pre-seed. It needs to handle concurrent downloads of hundreds of MB. Poll figures suggest numbers of up to a dozen. Even this many can push a low grade WiFi access point and would need at least FTTC bandwidth minimum.

Has anyone done a timed run through the material?

glynhudson commented 8 years ago

If we used the room in Intec we can use my office WiFi which is plugged into Intec's network which is direct into Fibre Speed network. We easily get 30/40Mbps up/down during the day (probably more in the evening). It's not a problem for us to cover the (token) £23 charge.

16th, 19th or 21st would be good with me.

On 16 May 2016 at 12:35, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

We're aiming for 19th to 21st in line with DockerCon. Twitter poll favoured Monday, Facebook Sunday and Tuesday. CoWork in Pontio is available, need to test the "TheCloud" wifi for suitability. Temporary accounts may be possible for small numbers should TheCloud not work.

Can someone comment on Ty Menai and Intec wifi and internet capabilities?

This must have either bomb-proof wifi with good back-haul internet or a local docker image cache which we pre-seed. It needs to handle concurrent downloads of hundreds of MB. Poll figures suggest numbers of up to a dozen. Even this many can push a low grade WiFi access point and would need at least FTTC bandwidth minimum.

Has anyone done a timed run through the material?

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/NorthWalesTech/NorthWalesTech/issues/34#issuecomment-219405458

Glyn Hudson

http://megni.co.uk http://adventuresplusnorthwales.blogspot.com

carwyn commented 8 years ago

We've not been to Intec yet and as @robshep says it would be good to call on Gwynedd Council's offer.

Announcing a date would be enough on Thursday, I'd prefer the 19th or 21st as they align with DockerCon, we can put up stuff from their event at ours that way.

@glynhudson is there any difference between Sunday afternoon and Tuesday evening from an Intec perspective?

carwyn commented 8 years ago

@davehun what's the situation with Ty Menai Wifi and internet?

Note that we'd have to buy food on the Sunday or drinks on the Tuesday to get the room for free.

davehun commented 8 years ago

internet is stable an lots of AP not desperately fast but very solid. Might be faster out of hours.

On 16 May 2016, at 16:10, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

@davehun https://github.com/davehun what's the situation with Ty Menai Wifi and internet?

Note that we'd have to buy food on the Sunday or drinks on the Tuesday to get the room for free.

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carwyn commented 8 years ago

@davehun PSK or batch of user accounts?

davehun commented 8 years ago

?

On 16 May 2016, at 16:20, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

@davehun https://github.com/davehun PSK or batch of user accounts?

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carwyn commented 8 years ago

Single Pre Shared Key (PSK) or WPA2 Enterprise (per user account)

davehun commented 8 years ago

PSK

On 16 May 2016, at 16:24, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

Single Pre Shared Key (PSK) or WPA2 Enterprise (per user account)

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davehun commented 8 years ago

i assume you mean Ty Menai

On 16 May 2016, at 16:24, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

Single Pre Shared Key (PSK) or WPA2 Enterprise (per user account)

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robshep commented 8 years ago

Re: Ty Menai if it is a contender: we also have the option of running long Ethernet cables from a meeting room cabinet (assuming one of the rooms in software hotel wing) which will provide significantly better throughput.

I used to do this for anyone one mentioned booking keywords such as "youtube, live demo, skype etc"

I used to just run a huge heap of 20 meter cables, and arrange the desks along a wall/divider if possible. Worked great. Easily fast enough.

Like all shared office environments, during the day the wifi is congested due to the number of APs all self-managing on a very selected number of 802.11 channels.

I think Lee is still doing network technician duties there so I can just tell him what to do

glynhudson commented 8 years ago

is there any difference between Sunday afternoon and Tuesday evening from an Intec perspective?

Just sent an email to ask the fascility manger John Johns. Should have a answer tomorrow. Should be fine.

davehun commented 8 years ago

No self managed Aps any more (in theory)

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Mai 2016, at 16:43, robshep notifications@github.com wrote:

Re: Ty Menai if it is a contender: we also have the option of running long Ethernet cables from a meeting room cabinet (assuming one of the rooms in software hotel wing) which will provide significantly better throughput.

I used to do this for anyone one mentioned booking keywords such as "youtube, live demo, skype etc"

I used to just run a huge heap of 20 meter cables, and arrange the desks along a wall/divider if possible. Worked great. Easily fast enough.

Like all shared office environments, during the day the wifi is congested due to the number of APs all self-managing on a very selected number of 802.11 channels.

I think Lee is still doing network technician duties there so I can just tell him what to do

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub

glynhudson commented 8 years ago

Meeting rooms in Intec are week days only. I can't use them at the weekend apparently..

No self managed Aps any more (in theory)

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Mai 2016, at 16:43, robshep notifications@github.com wrote:

Re: Ty Menai if it is a contender: we also have the option of running long Ethernet cables from a meeting room cabinet (assuming one of the rooms in software hotel wing) which will provide significantly better throughput.

I used to do this for anyone one mentioned booking keywords such as "youtube, live demo, skype etc"

I used to just run a huge heap of 20 meter cables, and arrange the desks along a wall/divider if possible. Worked great. Easily fast enough.

Like all shared office environments, during the day the wifi is congested due to the number of APs all self-managing on a very selected number of 802.11 channels.

I think Lee is still doing network technician duties there so I can just tell him what to do

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/NorthWalesTech/NorthWalesTech/issues/34#issuecomment-219477061

carwyn commented 8 years ago

We need to be sure of both of these things:

  1. Are we allowed to connect our own access points to the Ty Menai cabinets.
  2. If not is the public Wifi present and usable?

We need to test this before the evening with enough time to change venue if it doesn't work. On more than one occasion I've seen adding kit to a network nuke it completely: IP clashes, rogue DHCP, rogue RIP, Cisco VTP takover. In the latter case every switch on the host network had to be rebooted. Some of the commercial kit will also signal jam rogue APs to make them unusable.

I tested "The Cloud" on a laptop in Pontio and can get consistent 2Mbit with no interruptions as long as you stay in one place and keep your laptop on. Any disconnection will often force you back to the captive portal. The main issue is that throughput at 2Mbit is only 100KBps, this is throttled at the Wifi controller level.

Once fabFriday members have logins they will have 20Mbps WPA2 Enterprise which actually works :) At least concurrency isn't an issue there. Most consumer grade kit conks out pretty quickly with more than a handful of heavy users, either CPU limited or things like dnsmasq default config limited to very small default address pool size.

I'm probably being paranoid I know but we have people driving over from Prestatyn and Chester for it already :)

I'll see if I can book CoWork as a plan B on Tuesday. I have a "yes" in principle. I think Ty Menai is a better location if we can make sure it works though.

carwyn commented 8 years ago

From @robshep

The capacity of the current room (rm 102) varies by layout but 20-30 will be fine. But we can move to 105 where we were last time if needed.

I've requested a call with aytel, the IT provider, who should be calling me back to confirm details. I gave them loads of assistance setting up when they were handed the contract so they'll be helpful. There's feck all AUP or SLA but the raw wired connection will be fast enough after hours.

I'll sort a spare switch and a bunch of cables from the comms room so we can get everyone hooked up.

There certainly was no access control when I provided network access to the guest/event network as it was too much hassle. I'm going to double check that this hasn't changed and test it out in the next week or so.

My opinion is that limiting numbers to 20 + experts/organisers will make for a better event than having a larger number of participants all requiring assistance and bandwidth.

Q for @davehun Apparently we can run a registry as a pass-thru proxy? So if all the participants are going to be requesting the same images for the tutorial then that could be pre-seeded during the day?

carwyn commented 8 years ago

If we are going wired we'll need to remind people to bring their ethernet dongles.

Agreed with numbers, we can always run more workshops. To be honest a regular series would be quite cool.

I was thinking about the local registry/proxy idea too, a "Docker Workshop" in a box :)

carwyn commented 8 years ago

@davehun @robshep the Docker Workshop is now full with more people asking about places.

The biggest challenge I'm expecting is getting people up and running on docker, especially given the range of OSes involved. Virtualbox on Windows is a particular pain point, especially if they have HyperV or VMware installed. The state some people get OS X into may also cause problems. The main issues I've hit are left over cruft from previous hypervisor installs, usually network stuff.

Latest linux distros don't even need the toolbox installed, new enough versions are already in the package repos. These are probably preferable to adding extra apt/yum sources as they can cause issues with future distro upgrades.

jonbullock commented 8 years ago

For what it's worth I signed up for access to the Private Beta last week and I've already received my token to download it.

carwyn commented 8 years ago

@jonbullock I jumped ship to the beta as soon as I could too. Docker on HyperV is far more reliable than Virtualbox on Win 10 Preview (the other platform I have to work with :( ) but I'd not recommend it for RTM versions of Windows as it really is beta. On OS X is depends how well baked xhyve is?

The beta's not something we can depend on for the workshop that's for sure.

jonbullock commented 8 years ago

I never got as far as to actually install Toolbox on OS X and reading the comments I'm kinda glad I didn't. Does it matter for the workshop which version we go for?

carwyn commented 8 years ago

@jonbullock I've not tried Docker on OS X @davehun ?

davehun commented 8 years ago

The toolbox for me was fine apart from one occasion where a bug in my own virtual box install caused a day of pain. The beta has been ok for me one small bug where it consumed all my disk space. Defiantly not had any of the problems Carwyn is describing on windows.

On 1 Jun 2016, at 13:51, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

@jonbullock https://github.com/jonbullock I've not tried Docker on OS X @davehun https://github.com/davehun ?

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carwyn commented 8 years ago

@davehun "one small bug where it consumed all my disk space" is not a small bug. This is what I mean by beta.

carwyn commented 8 years ago

@davehun and "a bug in my own virtual box install caused a day of pain." is similar to what I had on Windows. Have you tried the xhyve version in anger yet?

davehun commented 8 years ago

yes its great so far. Switching was a pain and the disk eating bug was annoying but back to normal now.

On 1 Jun 2016, at 17:02, Carwyn Edwards notifications@github.com wrote:

@davehun https://github.com/davehun and "a bug in my own virtual box install caused a day of pain." is similar to what I had on Windows. Have you tried the xhyve version in anger yet?

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robshep commented 8 years ago
  1. FWIW, I had an existing VirtualBox install and installed docker toolbox the other day and it all "just works"

2a. I was contemplating that maybe there is a "live CD" linux image that will work for the purposes of the workshop as a fallback. (not looked into which one)

2b. If docker toolbox happens to be borked - will just running boot2docker in an existing working virtualisation envrionment be suitable?

carwyn commented 8 years ago

@robshep 2b: Yup Running any standard linux distro in any HyperVisor would be a good fallback. This avoids host to guest shared filesystem issues too. I'm hoping that most of the issues I've seen won't exist on most people's machines as they were mostly early Windows 10 and VirtualBox 5 problems. The toolbox in general has grown up a lot in the last few months.

I'm going to run through the full tutorial on Ubuntu and Windows 10 in the next week or so to see where it's at, not used Ubuntu in ages so will be good to see.