OCNS / SoftwareWG

The primary housekeeping repository for the INCF/OCNS Software Working Group, and the sources for the web site.
https://ocns.github.io/SoftwareWG/
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RFC: WG presence at CNS 2023 #125

Closed sanjayankur31 closed 9 months ago

sanjayankur31 commented 1 year ago

Hi @OCNS/software-wg

This is a follow up from the initial discussion at the January meeting.

The question is: what, if anything, do we do at CNS 2023.

Context

We did a whole week of satellite tutorials at CNS 2022 last year. These were free to register for, and open to everyone. Organising them did take a little bit of work---communicating with tutors, scheduling them, announcing them, setting up all the meetings etc. We had great registration numbers: >250 registrants, but we had low turnout: ~10 per session.

The low turnout could've been for a number of reasons---lack of daily reminders is one, zoom fatigue is another, availability of lots of documentation and video tutorials that users can follow in their own time is another. We sent a short survey to all registrants and got very few responses (a subset of attendees), but those that did respond generally indicated that they'd be happy to pay a small registratin fee.

So, we, as the WG need to decide if we'll do another round of satellite tutorials this year. If we do, the plan is to make a few tweaks to learn from our experience last year:

The larger question is: are online tutorials, and a full week of them covering lots of tools, still relevant/useful to the community? A general feeling does seem to be that because we're all working hard at writing good documentation and tutorials (often video based), users are happier using these resources when they need them (on-demand) rather than sitting through a whole week learning lots of tools that they may or may not need in the short-term future. There are also initiatives like NeuroMatch Academy that are solely focused on training and do a much better job than what we can manage---although, they're not software specific from what I know.

Alternatives

If we think such a week of tutorials is not the way to go, do we want to do something else? If yes, what?

Initial ideas (in no particular order):

So, please comment here with your views. We'd like to make a decision and get started with the necessary organisation ASAP. Please also share this with your labs/colleagues---all input is welcome.

brenthuisman commented 1 year ago

Thanks for bringing the discussion on the usefulness up, @sanjayankur31. First off: the satellite sessions, are they in addition to the tutorials and workshops I received an invite for yesterday? I was under the impression those will be in person. If they are in addition, given the low turnout of online sessions, I'm tending to foregoing them.

Setting up the infrastructure of an event like previous years sound like too much effort for the outcome to me. Without an idea for getting the attendance up, I wouldn't do that. Ideally something more workshoppy/hackathony would be nice, but my experience is also that these workshop mostly attract new students, of which at least half has no significant programming experience. That means coding is off the table (my own sessions were designed to be interactive, but they never are). Do others experience a similar ratio?

sanjayankur31 commented 1 year ago

Thanks for bringing the discussion on the usefulness up, @sanjayankur31. First off: the satellite sessions, are they in addition to the tutorials and workshops I received an invite for yesterday? I was under the impression those will be in person. If they are in addition, given the low turnout of online sessions, I'm tending to foregoing them.

Yes, these are in addition to the in-person sessions, since the in-person sessions are limited to those that are able to attend the conference.

Setting up the infrastructure of an event like previous years sound like too much effort for the outcome to me. Without an idea for getting the attendance up, I wouldn't do that. Ideally something more workshoppy/hackathony would be nice, but my experience is also that these workshop mostly attract new students, of which at least half has no significant programming experience. That means coding is off the table (my own sessions were designed to be interactive, but they never are). Do others experience a similar ratio?

We used Jupyter notebooks over OSB for our NeuroML sessions. They were meant to be interactive, and I think a few folks did follow along but yeh, something workshoppy/hackathony would be nice. I'm wondering if reproducing models using our tools would attract more folks, but then, that's quite a bit of work.

mstimberg commented 1 year ago

I agree with @brenthuisman here that setting up a full set of online tutorials is probably too much work for too little outcome, in particular given that some of us will be involved in an in-person workshop/tutorial (more so than last year when CNS was in Australia).

Reproduction projects sound nice, but also not sure how feasible with limited time/resources (and possibly student skill).

From my point of view, two things could be feasible/interesting to do:

Actually, we might consider proposing the first option as an official workshop for CNS? But for staying in line with the principles of the WG, we'd need to somehow negotiate to make it hybrid and open to people who did not register for CNS, not sure whether that's feasible.

sanjayankur31 commented 1 year ago

The general feeling at the meeting was to not do satellite tutorials, and instead continue with dev sessions/high lights and the sort. I expect the different simulator communities will do their tutorials/workshops at CNS in person this year, so we leave that bit at that.

How about:

The first one only materialises if folks are up for it, of course, since we'll need instructors. Thoughts?

Note: workshop submission deadline: 15th of April, 2023; tutorial submission deadline: April 22, 2023 (11:59 EST)

appukuttan-shailesh commented 1 year ago

I have sent an email to the OCNS board inquiring about the tutorials and workshops under consideration for CNS*2023. Hopefully we will have some info to discuss at the next WG meeting (in the third week of April).

sanjayankur31 commented 1 year ago

PSA: Any WG members that need visas to travel to Germany should apply ASAP. Here in London, there are no application appointments available till the end of may at all, and they haven't released appointments for June yet. :roll_eyes:

appukuttan-shailesh commented 1 year ago

Haven't received any update regarding the workshops and tutorials at CNS*2023 yet. There have been inquiries from others too more recently. Might take a bit longer to have some news on this.

mstimberg commented 1 year ago

This issue has been quiet for a while, but I think we agreed to 1) not do any workshop/tutorial and 2) to meet in some informal way at CNS.

Maybe everyone from the @OCNS/software-wg could briefly comment in this issue whether they will be present at the CNS meeting and if yes, whether they are presenting anything (preferably with links to the sched.com instance)

mstimberg commented 1 year ago

I'll start :blush: I will be at CNS (for tutorials and main meeting, but not for the workshops), and I'll present a tutorial (together with @mpgl and @spirosChv) and a poster. Looking forward to seeing you there :beers: !

Sched links:

ree-gupta commented 1 year ago

Hey all! I will be at CNS (for tutorials, main meeting and most of the workshops) and will be presenting part of a tutorial and a poster.

Sched links:

Looking forward! 😄

cmahapatra97 commented 1 year ago

Dear all,

I will also be at CNS 2023 from 15th July to 18th July for both tutorial and poster.

See you all in Leipzig.

Chitaranjan

Chitaranjan Mohapatra

On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 12:51 PM Reema Gupta @.***> wrote:

Hey all! I will be at CNS (for tutorials, main meeting and most of the workshops) and will be presenting part of a tutorial and a poster.

Sched links:

Looking forward! 😄

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/OCNS/SoftwareWG/issues/125#issuecomment-1620018486, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AHBXYIUO7QTSLW5V5RXNN6TXOPYS7ANCNFSM6AAAAAAUNT5GP4 . You are receiving this because you are on a team that was mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

sanjayankur31 commented 1 year ago

I'll make it to CNS this year too (Padraig will also be there). We've got a few posters this time and will be attending the various tutorials/workshops to see where NeuroML and OSB can fit in (as usual :))

(I somehow have two profiles on Sched, and these are linked to the unclaimed profile. I've requested the webmaster to merge them if possible)

clinssen commented 1 year ago

Hi, me and several colleagues will be presenting a full-day NEST Simulator tutorial. Please see here for details: https://cns2023.sched.com/event/1NCc8/t02-from-single-cell-modeling-to-large-scale-network-dynamics-with-nest-simulator

sanjayankur31 commented 12 months ago

Great to see so many of you coming.

Should we get together towards the end of the welcome reception on Saturday evening, at 8PM, and we can see if we want to go for dinner/drinks or something after? We can also then discuss what else we want to do formally/informally at the conference and in the future?

https://sched.co/1Kd5x

cmahapatra97 commented 12 months ago

Fine, I am in.

Best, Chitaranjan

Chitaranjan Mohapatra

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 3:10 PM Ankur Sinha @.***> wrote:

Great to see so many of you coming.

Should we get together towards the end of the welcome reception on Saturday evening, at 8PM, and we can see if we want to go for dinner/drinks or something after? We can also then discuss what else we want to do formally/informally at the conference and in the future?

https://sched.co/1Kd5x

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/OCNS/SoftwareWG/issues/125#issuecomment-1632501777, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AHBXYIXHUYNEFLCELSWVXJDXP2O2RANCNFSM6AAAAAAUNT5GP4 . You are receiving this because you are on a team that was mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

sanjayankur31 commented 12 months ago

I'll have the element app on my phone (also just runs in the browser on the phone), so can communicate over that. E-mail and GitHub issues work too, of course.

See you all there.