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Revising road classifications (was: Reclassify Philippine roads) #38

Closed TagaSanPedroAko closed 4 years ago

TagaSanPedroAko commented 6 years ago

As part of a proposed revision of Philippine road classification system ([further details at this WikiProject Philippines subpage on the OSM Wiki), I already started reclassification of many sub-national roads in parts of the Philippines, starting in La Union and Batangas.

The quick guide for classification is:

The new classification system ("Philippines v2") will now consider official designation as the factor, but other factors, particularly usage/importance and physical features will remain part of the possible road class to select. Consistency must be also considered in classifying roads. and proportionality must be considered also when selection the best classification.

This planned road reclassification will be mostly prioritized on provinces (or areas of) where the road system is badly mapped.

govvin commented 6 years ago

I suggest that you give the community a chance to discuss your proposal, before applying changes to any area. Road tagging needs to be consistent throughout all jurisdictions, and acceptable to local mappers.

govvin commented 6 years ago

I also suggest that with re-opening any discussion about this should include the feasibility of improving harmonization between local tagging conventions, and the governments', especially with major roads. Local OSM tagging for tertiary and unclassified road tags could be enhanced to reflect local level usage and traffic patterns.

Paverne commented 6 years ago

How does this relate to: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Mapping_conventions which I have been using as a guide. Rightly or wrongly I've been using Service Road quit a bit in the province (farm roads, ...more than a track), but this isn't mentioned in the suggested classifications?

govvin commented 6 years ago

@Paverne if any proposed changes are found acceptable by the community, then it becomes the accepted convention.

Right now, it's considered a proposal. I hope that discussions will commence about the merits of the proposal, which hopes to improve road tagging consistency between urban and rural areas.

seav commented 6 years ago

Just a side comment: I would like for us to use designation=* to record the actual legal classification of a road such as National Road (primary, secondary, tertiary), Provincial Road, City Road, Municipal Road, and Barangay Road. Maybe the following would be good:

Paverne commented 6 years ago

OK I'll provide some comment (as a form of positive contribution) but have to point out I'm standing on a very small soap box without a lot of OSM experiance and not even being from the Philippines. But, commenting strictly on what I can see.....

The proposal could do with some cleaning up. It's a bit hard to compare with the existing system. All information for the proposal may be better understood if it were in one place (e.g. the spreadsheet). An easy comparison of the existing and proposed wording can then be made i.e. the wording in the PH row of the spreadsheet should better reflect what is on the Wiki. At the moment the proposed wording is different in Github vs. the spreadsheet and the “PH” wording in the spreadsheet is not an accurate reflection of what is in the Wiki.

Some other comments: Tertiary The wording “other public-access thoroughfares with 2 or more lanes” could describe an unclassified road?

Unclassified Be careful with terms like “low importance roads” as they are very important to the people that use them! Will the naming of roads actually change their status on the map? What if they are unnamed?

Residential Road Wording “a road generally used only by people that live on that road or roads that branch off it” is perhaps too loose – could describe any road. Could also be applied to a lot of rural roads that would otherwise fall under unclassified. Suggest retain the original wording. There are many rural roads that lead to 1-5 residences that I wouldn’t think of as “residential roads” as they are in a farming area, not really a residential area. The use of “residential road” for these also makes the road seem quite significant on the map, yet they are typically only one step up from a track – hence I’ve been tagging them as Service Roads “Narrow single-track Farm-Access Roads “ as they look more appropriate on the map.

Service Road The existing definition includes the option for agricultural type single lane roads in this category, and I see a lot of them in the area I’ve been working in – more than a track, not residential, and less than an unclassified. From what I can see this shouldn’t be changed.

Cheers

govvin commented 6 years ago

Thank you for sharing @Paverne

The reason the two (wiki vs spreadsheet) are different is that they were being developed independent of each other. I'm the author of the spreadsheet, and it's really a rough draft of what I eventually wanted to propose to the community. The other day @TagaSanPedroAko posted his proposals, I decided to share what I already am working on so that we can harmonize proposals to start discussions.

The "PH" reference in row 10, is the current Philippine road tagging convention. And not a reference to the proposal by @TagaSanPedroAko.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@govvin @seav

This discussion seemed to have stalled a year ago. I just have been blocked for a day due to an edit war with user "rjamz26" regarding road classes around northwestern Laguna (from San Pedro to Los Baños), but I see it as time to start a full discussion and reach a consensus.

The newer updated proposal (see also on the OSM Wiki) is:

Motorway (controlled-access roads, usually tolled): expressways Trunk (national backbone routes): DPWH primary (1 to 2-digit) national roads, and some secondary (3-digit) national roads linking major regional towns (with over 100,000 people). Roads in the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao which fills the gaps on Routes 1 and 75. *Primary (major national roads complementing the backbone network. Connects major towns and are typically slower routes) All other DPWH secondary national roads DPWH tertiary national roads, where they serve as a major artery * Some major interurban roads not maintained by the DPWH (e.g. C-5 Road Extension, C6 Road, Daang Hari) Secondary (roads functioning as minor arteries, serving smaller towns and barangays in rural areas and barangays in urban areas) DPWH tertiary national roads serving the function of a secondary road, as defined above Roads in the Autonomous Region in Muslim Mindanao which connects major municipalities. Usually an extension of DPWH secondary national roads. Major city/municipal roads Major public through roads in private urban developments *Tertiary (road between the secondary and unclassified categories. Includes most collector roads in barangays) * Major barangay roads Unclassified (minor roads that are not residential roads) Other barangay-maintained non-residential roads that does not fit the definition of tertiary Other roads in industrial parks Roads in central business districts or commercial areas in ''poblacion'' areas.

How to classify bypasses and diversion roads might also need some further discussion.

woodpeck commented 4 years ago

See https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2019-October/006478.html for a mailing list post I made about an edit war involving this reclassification project.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

To begin the discussion, we might need to review the existing convention that has been agreed upon by the Philippines OSM community:

Since DPWH introduced the Route Numbering System in 2014, there have been a change to the official sub-classifications of national roads. Now, there are primary (1 to 2-digit, backbone network), secondary (3-digit, complementary network), and tertiary (local roads maintained by the DPWH). One possible correspondence to the 2014 national road sub-classifications is: Trunk - Primary Primary - Secondary *Secondary - Tertiary ...unfortunately, that proposal are fairly not very logical.

@govvin : I see that your proposal to match gov't designations with the OSM classifications seems like this: Motorway - expressways Trunk - national roads Primary - provincial roads Secondary - city/municipal roads *Tertiary - barangay roads

but I really show concern because it will result in a monotonous road map. What seems to be a better approach is based on importance and traffic usage, which can be:

Trunk - national importance, backbone routes, non-expressway. Connects major cities and regional towns, with at least 100,000 inhabitants. (This can correspond to much of the primary national road network, and parts of the secondary network) Primary - regional importance, roads that complement the backbone network. Secondary - minor arteries Tertiary - collector roads *Unclassified - minor importance, mixed-use non-residential

Expressways are already fine, and will always be tagged as motorway.

Bypass and diversion roads is an area that may need further discussion.

Any comments needed.

govvin commented 4 years ago

@TagaSanPedroAko Any discussions related to this should also include the protocol for adding proposed, planned, and roads under construction. We've already observing growing contributions of roads still in planning stages but being added on the map.

DP24PH commented 4 years ago

@TagaSanPedroAko In this case, the part of EDSA Extension is not under DPWH Maintenance Jurisdiction, hence the downgrade to highway=primary tag must require a huddle/poll.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@DearPaulPH That seems to be a vetting process, which take account for numerous factors, which we are discussing here

Looking back on the 2014 official designations (plus route number allocations) by DPWH, we get:

Expressway - limited to controlled-access roads, usually grade separated and tolled. Numbered E[number]. National primary roads - backbone network, connecting major cities (with population of 100,000+). Routes 1-49 - Major trunklines, connects 3 or more large cities Routes 50-99 - All other routes connecting two cities National secondary roads - complementary road network, connects all other cities and municipalities, as well as major ports and airports, tourism centers, and other national infrastructure National tertiary roads - maintained by DPWH, but local in importance. Provincial roads - connects cities and towns without using national roads, and feeds traffic from rural barangays to national roads. Maintained by provincial governments. City/municipal roads - roads in the poblacion areas, and roads that connect barangays without using provincial roads. *Barangay roads - all other public roads inside barangays

There is not much meaningful descriptions for each classification, but they provide functional types that is the first of our criteria. The DPWH Highway Safety Design Standards Part 1: Road Safety Design Manual provides more detail about the general characteristics of each designation:

Expressways - intercity, high traffic usage, no driveways, grade separation, limited number of intersections, no parking or stopping (except during emergencies) National roads - intercity and national importance, continuous routes, limited driveways, minimal number of intersections, intersections with other lower-class roads channelized whenever possible, no parking Provincial roads - provincial importance, limited driveways/property access, at-grade intersections, separated turning lanes, sidewalks and dedicated bike lanes, and designated pedestrian crossings City/municipal road - local traffic usage, lower speeds, narrower road widths, meandering alignments, parking permitted, sharing with foot and bicycle traffic *Barangay road - minor importance (low traffic volumes), more meandering alignments, dead ends possible, narrow road width, parking permitted

From those, we get into these possible criteria:

Official designation: expressway, national road, provincial road, city/municipal road, barangay road Traffic volume and usage: high (through routes), low (local usage) Usage: roads between cities and municipalities/towns, roads between barangays, minor roads Access control: no driveways at all, limited number or driveways, direct property access allowed Size: two-lane, multi-lane, divided (dual-carriageway) Alignment characteristics: straight/continuous, meandering

Comments? Ideas?

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@govvin For roads still in the planning stage, they generally get highway=proposed plus proposed=*.

Continuing from my last comments, I have been thinking about having both urban and rural distinctions for road classifications. I'm very critical about the existing system, not only for being outdated since route numbering is introduced, but also for not distinguishing between urban and rural roads.

A possible proposal will be: *Motorway* - expressways Trunk (rural) national roads that connect cities and municipalities with over 100,000 people, and usually primary or secondary. Examples are: Daang Maharlika, Manila North Road, Manila East Road, Natalio Bacalso Avenue (Route 8), Route 9 (the road between Butuan, Cagayan de Oro, Iligan and Pagadian). (urban) major non-expressway through routes, usually multilane, divided and a primary or secondary national road (e.g. EDSA, C-5 Road, Roxas Boulevard) Primary (rural) all other roads of the numbered national road network that do not qualify for trunk status, (urban) major arteries, usually belonging to the numbered network Secondary (rural) road that connects to smaller town centers, and is outside the numbered network (i.e. designated as national tertiary or provincial) (urban) minor arteries, roads that connects barangays or districts but is not a primary or secondary national road (i.e. designated national tertiary and below) Tertiary - (rural) roads that connect barangays to a secondary road and higher (urban) collector roads, usually serving the center of a barangay Unclassified** - local roads that is neither tertiary nor residential, e.g. mixed-use local roads, industrial park roads, roads that provides the only access to a remote sitio or purok

Opinions? What about classifying bypasses or diversion roads?

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

Two days since attempting to restart discussions, it looks like there haven't been any reply.

DP24PH commented 4 years ago

@TagaSanPedroAko Bypasses and Diversions connecting the main trunk roads might have to follow the similar principles for mapping as the national secondary road (with 3-digit RNS). I.e. Tiaong and Candelaria Bypass Roads in Quezon Province tagged by DPWH as National Secondary. For Cavite Province, Silang Bypass road is not numbered on some cases per DPWH GIS Portal. Hopefully, there would have further discussions on DPWH GIS Portal as basis on RNS and highway properties (including trunk roads per law).

maning commented 4 years ago

Two days since attempting to restart discussions, it looks like there haven't been any reply.

Let us not rush this conversation and allow more people to digest your proposals. This is not new and have been discussed on several occasions in the mailinglist in the past. I think its better to get this right this time.

In the meantime, let's all stop reverting/reclassifying any edits until this discussed have come to consensus.

woodpeck commented 4 years ago

I agree - for a project that seems to aim at reclassifying thousands of roads all over the country, making a ticket on GitHub and waiting a couple of days for replies is certainly not sufficient. This needs a few people saying "yes, this is a good idea, let's do it" - not just the absence of protest - to go ahead.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

This is better discussed in a thread in the talk-ph mailing list, but this ticket can remain open though, especially to handle tasks on reclassifications after a decision has been reached.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@govvin @maning

I have opened a new discussion thread at talk-ph, originally named "Revisiting road classifications", but I renamed it "Redefining road classifications", since I looked back at the pre-2014 road classifications, I misinterpreted the "North-South Backbone", "East-West Laterals" and "Other Roads of Strategic Importance" as to mean all the national roads (they are rather the subclasses of the national primary roads before the Route Numbering System is introduced), that let me assume trunk means all national roads as designated by the DPWH.

Here is a quick rundown of the proposed redefined road classifications I posted on talk-ph:

By official designation (not in the talk-ph thread):

Expressway - motorway National primary major routes (Routes 1-11) - trunk other routes (Routes 51-70; 73-79; 81, and 82) - trunk; primary (Routes 51-53, 59, 60, 62-67, 73, 74, 81, and 82) National secondary - primary National tertiary - secondary or lower (as judged by mapper) Provincial roads - secondary or lower (as judged by mapper) City/municipal roads - secondary or lower (as judged by mapper) *Barangay roads - tertiary, unclassified, and residential (as judged by mapper)

By OSM road classification:

Motorway - expressways Trunk - major primary national roads (includes all the backbone routes numbered 1 to 11, and the others numbered 51 to 82, with exceptions that must be tagged as primary), not included sections that are superseded by a bypass (e.g. Route 1/Daang Maharlika through the poblacion of Davao City) Primary - non-major primary national roads (i.e. Routes 51, 52, 53, 59, 60, 62, 64, 65, 66, 73, 74, 81, and 82); the secondary national roads (with possible exceptions, e.g. Route 156 or T.M. Kalaw Avenue, Route 181 or San Marcelino Street, and Route 182 or Romualdez Street, which are better tagged as secondary) Secondary - urban arteries that is not a numbered national road, and connects 3+ barangays or districts; provincial roads that connect cities, towns and other barangays with the primary and trunk networks Tertiary - collector roads in a barangay or city district; other roads that connect barangays with the secondary network Unclassified - minor roads outside residential areas in rural areas; other non-residential or mixed-use roads in urban areas *Residential - residential streets

I am considering also removing the "living street" classifications, as there is no legal equivalent in Philippine traffic law, and retagging them based on the mapper's judgment (i.e. residential if it can allow a car, and path/footway if it is a narrow alley, or eskinita, not passable to any cars, except perhaps for motorcycles).

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

This discussion seems to be going to nowhere. Now I published my proposal on talk-ph, we should be discussing this matter already, and reach a consensus.

ralleon commented 4 years ago

DPWH provides some good weight whether we should classify a particular road as trunk, but I share the same view as Eugene "that National Road does not mean that the road is functionally important but rather it only means that DPWH is the government agency in charge of maintaining such roads as opposed to LGUs."

Same opinion is supported in an old JICA report, year 1991 Page E-12 _"Road classification by DPWH is based mainly on the administrative responsibilities and jurisdiction of the agencies concerned in the funding, planning, construction/improvement and maintenance, rather than functions of roads. National and provincial roads or provincial roads are often indististinguishable..." "For planning and developing an efficient road network, functional classification is essential."_

Over the years, many have seen on the field a good number of National Roads that looked the same as any provincial roads & major city roads; and also could look like any urban collector roads or ordinary streets (in terms of volume of vehicle per day, width, or road surface quality).

Byahero-Trader Test: A good understanding and actual observation of the roads with highest Freight Traffic by the big truckers and the small logistics providers, as well as the regional movers of people (big buses) as compared to nearby primary roads in the same province or region is essential. Those are usually very good indicators if a said primary route is the 'de facto' Trunk Road. These to me is what JICA referred to as "Efficient Road Network" in terms of cost-effective movements of goods and people on the roads as dictated by the market and user behavior with a slight nudge (thru infra and info) from the road planners and the mappers. Not the other way around: "what the DPWH said"

The trunk road should also pass the 'Scissor Test', by theoretically cutting one of the primary road in the province. If as a result of cutting, the regional or provincial trade grinds to a halt and the impact is severe - then it's most likely the trunk road. It's the equivalent of closing the major port of an isolated island during a crisis; or like cutting the trunk of a tree (versus merely cutting a branch) that may result in death (or near death) of that tree. However, if by cutting the primary road, the economy of the entire province (or region) is not that much affected (eg. only the town), then it's just an ordinary primary road,

As to the 'names & length' of trunk: a series (or system) of roads 'need not have the same name', as long as they are contiguously "forming the spine/backbone" of the entire region or huge provinces - that leads to and cross the border to another region (or mega city), passing through their main trading zones and/or capital; or terminates near an airport or major seaport.

ralleon commented 4 years ago

(Art) The fuzzy way of determining of making an opinion if road is a trunk or just a primary

Grey Area: Let's look at Route 54 (Kennon Road portion). For decades, there was no alternative as it was only cost-effective route from NCR to Baguio. It was natural for DPWH to tag it as Primary Road (currently a trunk road in OSM because of DPWH as well as its Heritage status). In fact to this day, the Kennon Route is still considered the "Manila-Baguio Priority Corridor" by DPWH

Long time ago, being prone to landslide and closures, the gov't decided to build an alternative diversion road to Baguio via 'Pugo-Rosario Road' (Route N209) (tagged as Primary Road), turning right at Palispis Highway (Route N208) (tagged as Trunk Road). This route is longer but safer than Kennon and less prone to landslide closures. Truckers and Buses are forced to use this route.

Image

Lets do the TESTS: The Scissor Test (actual): Baguio survives without Kennon in the numerous times it was closed indefinitely (for repair). Goods and People flow up and down Baguio freely (as long as N208 & N209 remains passable). Else use Quirino Hway (Route N54) to Bauang, La Union (no problem). While Kennon is very much part of Baguio's heritage, it failed the Scissor Test, and obviously not functioning as a trunk. But nobody wants to be that bad guy to downgrade Kennon. Not me :-)

The Sentimental Test: Combined Routes of N209 & N208 appear to have higher 'Freight & Bus traffic' (compared to all other routes going up Baguio). So this are are practically the de facto trunk to Baguio (from La Union). Yet N209's road class still remains tagged as 'primary' in spite the critical function. Why? because the impression of the mappers are that N209 connects two-towns only (Pugo & Rosario) and cannot be promoted; and failed to see that this short route is part of a system (unofficial Manila-Baguio Priority Corridor).

"Bakit mo nga naman ipagpapalit ang N209 bilang trunk (eh wala naman lamang official name) kumpara sa Kennon Road (N54), mahaba ang history, na kahit matanda na may pinagsamahan pa rin, nadaanan mo sa mahabang pananon! tapos ganun na lang!" haha ;-)

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

Same opinion is supported in an old JICA report, year 1991 Page E-12 "Road classification by DPWH is based mainly on the administrative responsibilities and jurisdiction of the agencies concerned in the funding, planning, construction/improvement and maintenance, rather than functions of roads. National and provincial roads or provincial roads are often indististinguishable..." "For planning and developing an efficient road network, functional classification is essential." Over the years, many have seen on the field a good number of National Roads that looked the same as any provincial roads & major city roads; and also could look like any urban collector roads or ordinary streets (in terms of volume of vehicle per day, width, or road surface quality). Byahero-Trader Test: A good understanding and actual observation of the roads with highest Freight Traffic by the big truckers and the small logistics providers, as well as the regional movers of people (big buses) as compared to nearby primary roads in the same province or region is essential. Those are usually very good indicators if a said primary route is the 'de facto' Trunk Road. These to me is what JICA referred to as "Efficient Road Network" in terms of cost-effective movements of goods and people on the roads as dictated by the market and user behavior with a slight nudge (thru infra and info) from the road planners and the mappers. Not the other way around: "what the DPWH said" The trunk road should also pass the 'Scissor Test', by theoretically cutting one of the primary road in the province. If as a result of cutting, the regional or provincial trade grinds to a halt and the impact is severe - then it's most likely the trunk road. It's the equivalent of closing the major port of an isolated island during a crisis; or like cutting the trunk of a tree (versus merely cutting a branch) that may result in death (or near death) of that tree. However, if by cutting the primary road, the economy of the entire province (or region) is not that much affected (eg. only the town), then it's just an ordinary primary road, As to the 'names & length' of trunk: a series (or system) of roads 'need not have the same name', as long as they are contiguously "forming the spine/backbone" of the entire region or huge provinces - that leads to and cross the border to another region (or mega city), passing through their main trading zones and/or capital; or terminates near an airport or major seaport. (Art) The fuzzy way of determining of making an opinion if road is a trunk or just a primary Grey Area: Let's look at Route 54 (Kennon Road portion). For decades, there was no alternative as it was only cost-effective route from NCR to Baguio. It was natural for DPWH to tag it as Primary Road (currently a trunk road in OSM because of DPWH as well as its Heritage status). In fact to this day, the Kennon Route is still considered the "Manila-Baguio Priority Corridor" by DPWH Long time ago, being prone to landslide and closures, the gov't decided to build an alternative diversion road to Baguio via 'Pugo-Rosario Road' (Route N209) (tagged as Primary Road), turning right at Palispis Highway (Route N208) (tagged as Trunk Road). This route is longer but safer than Kennon and less prone to landslide closures. Truckers and Buses are forced to use this route. Lets do the TESTS: The Scissor Test (actual): Baguio survives without Kennon in the numerous times it was closed indefinitely (for repair). Goods and People flow up and down Baguio freely (as long as N208 & N209 remains passable). Else use Quirino Hway (Route N54) to Bauang, La Union (no problem). While Kennon is very much part of Baguio's heritage, it failed the Scissor Test, and obviously not functioning as a trunk. But nobody wants to be that bad guy to downgrade Kennon. Not me :-) The Sentimental Test: Combined Routes of N209 & N208 appear to have higher 'Freight & Bus traffic' (compared to all other routes going up Baguio). So this are are practically the de facto trunk to Baguio (from La Union). Yet N209's road class still remains tagged as 'primary' in spite the critical function. Why? because the impression of the mappers are that N209 connects two-towns only (Pugo & Rosario) and cannot be promoted; and failed to see that this short route is part of a system (unofficial Manila-Baguio Priority Corridor). "Bakit mo nga naman ipagpapalit ang N209 bilang trunk (eh wala naman lamang official name) kumpara sa Kennon Road (N54), mahaba ang history, na kahit matanda na may pinagsamahan pa rin, nadaanan mo sa mahabang pananon! tapos ganun na lang!" haha ;-)

@ralleon

I also share your first point. Yes, the Philippines did not have a road classification system that corresponds with their function, unlike many other countries, but we could still say the official classification can still have bearing how we should treat them.

Now, there's a route numbering system, and there are also improvements in how road are classified by the DPWH to have a functional component, but we can still see we should be classifying roads in OSM by how they are used. It leads us back on what @govvin has been proposing, which I strongly disagree:

How to imagine how trade movements between provinces and large cities will be affected (i.e. the scissors test) when a highway gets closed is a good point to how we can determine roads whether a highway should be trunk or primary in OSM, but I have my opinions and counterarguments:

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@ralleon

I think this should be the functional descriptions of each type, and distinguish between urban and rural areas. This is largely from what seems to be an urban bias on the present road classification (especially on secondary and tertiary).

As national primary roads function as major intercity routes and national secondary as roads complementing the backbone, linking other cities and towns to the primary network, we can get this natural correspondences

National primary = trunk National secondary = primary

...but we can make room for exceptions. Some national primary roads are or regional importance or have been superseded by a non-expressway bypass, therefore some will be tagged as primary; the same also goes with some routes designated the national secondary.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

It's another week, and there seems to be still no comments, but I still think road classifications for the Philippines need to be changed due to these possible points:

I came by this possible final proposal, with details about function, importance, typical speeds, and general official classification. Feel free to comment about possible refinements or improved definitions

DP24PH commented 4 years ago

@TagaSanPedroAko For addendum:

Main Residential Roadways must be ranged into 20-30 km/h due to some subdivisions increasing the speed limit to boost travel times (especially if with sidewalks)

Service roads must be always 20 km/h (in case of PH-120's Service Roadway)

Likewise, parking lot roads must be 10-15 km/h

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@DearPaulPH Here is the improved definition of residential

Service roads must be always 20 km/h (in case of PH-120's Service Roadway)

Likewise, parking lot roads must be 10-15 km/h

I would better say roads with "service road" in their name may be better tagged according to their actual use. This is particularly true for those used as frontage access along expressways or a dual carriageway, where they may serve as a minor artery (e.g. the East and West Service Roads of SLEX).

I would better say highway=service should be used on unnamed access roads around buildings or private property, parking lot roads, driveways, alleys, and drive-thru lanes of fast-food restaurants.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

Here is a map of national roads that would correspond to trunk. Further comments/input needed.

philippines osm trunk routes

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

Given the last inputs by @DearPaulPH, I get into this possible proposal. Not final yet, but the proposal seems to be already fine. I may also need comments from experienced mappers such as @maning, @ianlopez1115, @seav, @ralleon, and @govvin, which have contributed much of the present classifications.

I came by this possible factors when considering change in road classifications. Some factors may be more important than others, but :

I also presented in this proposal a plan to eliminate the living_street classification as there is no equivalent term under Philippine law, but there have been no comments about it so far.

woodpeck commented 4 years ago

I know nothing about the country but I would like to suggest a few general points:

DP24PH commented 4 years ago

@TagaSanPedroAko For service roadways (particularly driveways), the speed limit may range from 5-20 km/h where some factories will limit to brisk walking speed for additional safety reasons (like in Yazaki-EMI in Imus City), and for drive-thru on a fast-food, it will be always a one-way toll (due to the way it may involve transaction that requires either cash, card, or RFID). Likewise, Service Road on PH-61/R-1/PMRB[1] from Redemptorist Junction to PH-155/TMKA[2] will be at 20 km/h as set by MMDA.

For East and West Service Roads along E2/R-3/Skyway at-grade, the highway=service will be ignored, thus it is on higher highway=* category, and thank you for your clarification.

1 - President Manuel Roxas Boulevard 2 - T.M. Kalaw Avenue

govvin commented 4 years ago

The current convention for living_street is used to tag (often) narrow residential roads where there are no sidewalks, or sidewalks are occupied by street merchants, or not wide enough to allow smooth, two-way car traffic -- and tolerated by local authorities. IMO, it's not necessary to drop this, although it could improve on elaboration, since this practically convey what's on the ground, versus what the "official" record says about the particular highway..

OpenStreetMap doesn't always follow "official" conventions, as pointed out by woodpeck, and as can be gleaned from the current mapping convention.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@govvin Since there have been many road clearing projects being done since Duterte's order to "reclaim the roads" within 60 days in 2019, I really consider dropping the living street tag. In my own experience, I generally avoid using the living street tag, better tagging them as highway=residential (if the street allows car traffic) or highway=pedestrian (if it only allows pedestrians, and bikes and motorcycles).

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

Bumping this up for further comments:

  • Motorway -- Controlled-access highways, mostly paved, divided, and tolled. -- Speeds: 60-100 kph. -- Corresponds to expressways, unless they are not built to standards and/or traffic restrictions under the Limited Access Highway Act do not apply,
  • Trunk -- Major national highways that connect major cities, and expressway sections which are not completely grade separated, and/or legal traffic restrictions do not apply (e.g. SLEX between Magallanes and Nichols). -- Speeds: 80 kph in rural areas, and 60 kph in urban areas -- Corresponds to the majority of the DPWH national primary roads (1-2 digit routes), with exceptions noted at Primary below. -- Not applicable to sections superseded by a bypass route (e.g. Route 1/Daang Maharlika through the poblacion of Davao City, where trunk must be assigned to Route 931/Carlos P. Garcia Highway which bypasses the route to the northwest)
  • Primary --Roads of regional importance, that connects large municipalities and other cities with the trunk network. Major arteries in urban areas. --Generally correspond to most national secondary roads (3-digit routes), and some national primary roads that do not serve the purpose of trunk, i.e. Routes 52, 53, 59, 60, 62-67, 73-74, 81, and 82. -- Speeds: 80 kph in rural areas, and 40-60 kph in urban areas
  • Secondary -- Roads connecting smaller municipalities not served by the primary network. In urban areas, they would be minor arteries, connecting 3 or more barangays or districts. --Generally a road officially classified as national tertiary road and lower, (and not numbered). --Speeds: around 60 kph in rural areas, and 40 kph in urban areas
  • Tertiary - -- Roads connecting barangays and other local infrastructure in rural areas. Collector roads in urban areas, which are usually within one or between two barangays or districts, and are less important through roads. -- Usually have winding alignments and traffic calming to discourage through traffic -- Speeds: 40 kph in rural areas, 30 kph in urban areas -- If a tertiary road is wide (around 4 lanes or more) or divided for a significant distance, consider promoting it to secondary.
  • Unclassified - -- Minor roads in rural areas. Mixed-use and/or non-residential roads in urban areas. -- Speeds: around 20-30 kph.
  • Residential -- Roads whose main purpose is for accessing houses. -- Speed: 20-30 kph. -- May or may not have a sidewalk.
  • Service --Unnamed roads around buildings and commercial areas, parking lot roads, alleys, emergency access, and drive-thru lanes in fast food restaurants --Speeds: 10-20 kph

I came by this possible factors when considering change in road classifications. Some factors may be more important than others, [depending on context]:

  • Function
  • Official designation
  • Surface (roads in the Philippines are assumed to be paved, but in some places, especially in poorer regions or provinces, can be badly rutted or unpaved at all)
  • Speed
  • Size, lane count, road width (generally useful when to retag a road from tertiary to secondary, or unclassified to tertiary)
DP24PH commented 4 years ago

@TagaSanPedroAko Re-submission of previous reply: For service roadways (particularly driveways), the speed limit may range from 5-20 km/h where some factories will limit to brisk walking speed for additional safety reasons (like in Yazaki-EMI in Imus City), and for drive-thru on a fast-food, it will be always a one-way toll (due to the way it may involve transaction that requires either cash, card, or RFID). Likewise, Service Road on PH-61/R-1/PMRB[1] from Redemptorist Junction to PH-155/TMKA[2] will be at 20 km/h as set by MMDA.

For East and West Service Roads along E2/R-3/Skyway at-grade, the highway=service will be ignored, thus it is on higher highway=* category, and thank you for your clarification.

1 - President Manuel Roxas Boulevard 2 - T.M. Kalaw Avenue

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@DearPaulPH I have already included your points on the detailed proposal I quoted. We should be considering if this is already final and can be documented on the wiki, or be brought up to talk-ph for further comments and discussion.

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

@govvin

Returning to the question on living street, I think we narrow this class down to narrow streets (roughly 2-3m) where traffic cannot flow smoothly and have no sidewalks, no longer roads where jaywalking or roadside vendors are being tolerated by LGUs (considering the ongoing clearing operations in many places, continuing from the 60-day ultimatum given by Duterte to LGUs to "reclaim the roads").

TagaSanPedroAko commented 4 years ago

I'll move further discussions into the mailing list, and I'll keep a rough draft in the wiki for this time.