Review on removal of bicycle lane and parking restriction data - Washington Place, Dasmarinas City, Cavite

[DP24PH]

Description of the issue

A case of bicycle lane and parking restriction-related removal by non-resident mapper has been identified by the resident mapper DEARPAUL24 (@DearPaulPH) in OSMCha investigation (https://osmcha.org/changesets/82595489 - marked as bad edit) wherein several protected attachments of 2018 Mapillary imagery have proven the verifiability of the existing bicycle lanes.

Proofs of evidences

1. Existing Bicycle Lane Based on figures 1 and 2 below, bicycle lanes and sidewalks are considered a high-priority corridors for cyclists and pedestrians. Hence, it is considered unlawful for anyone to obstruct those bicycle lanes and sidewalks under BP 344, RA 4136, RA 7277, RA 9442, RA 9514, RA 9994, RA 10754, and the local Dasmarinas City Ordinance 2016-02. Figure 1. Unmarked sedan on straight-thru traffic as the sedan is exiting the roundabout and the electric tricycle is on the approach to the roundabout. Image courtesy of DEARPAUL24 Media/Mapillary Figure 2. Unmarked sedan on straight-thru traffic on the approach to Phase 1 proper. Image courtesy of DEARPAUL24 Media/Mapillary

2. Parking restrictions due to Bicycle Lane markings Based on figure 3 below, there are certain sections that are equipped with fire hydrant, hence it is automatically a fire zone under BP 344, RA 4136, RA 9514, and the local Dasmarinas City Ordinance 2016-02. Figure 3. Unmarked sedan have spotted bicycle lane and sidewalk incursions (marked with an X). Image courtesy of DEARPAUL24 Media/Mapillary

Recommendations:

• [x] Restoration of available bicycle lanes and parking restriction data to OSM as per local ordinances [Changesets TBA 83989096]
• [x] Frequent monitoring against unwanted changes to bicycle lane data via OSMCha
• [ ] Community mapping collaboration with the OpenStreetMap Philippines and the concerned WPHOAI (after the Community Quarantine)
• [ ] Sensitivity training to all homeowners and mappers (some residents and/or mappers may have a non-apparent disability)
• [ ] Seminars on Mapillary imagery by @DearPaulPH, et. al.

Sources

• DEARPAUL24 Media
• Mapillary
• Maxar Technologies

[TagaSanPedroAko]

@DearPaulPH

I'm fine with marking parking restrictions if indicated by anything such as markings, but I don't think you should be tagging all of them because that's what national law or local ordinance says. If you have images other mappers can use to prove bike lanes exist, go for it, but avoid the tendency within you to add excessive stuff, which are either redundant (can be implied already by one tag) or hardly verifiable on the ground. If there's a bike lane, assume you can't park there.

Remember what I've said about your editing habits on one private email about the information overload that shows on your many edits.

I'm seeing again things like the "WP1", but just like parking restrictions, if that's only used for internal reference by the developer/HOA and there are no signs out there, don't tag it.

At last, don't think like you "own" your home area from the way you say my edits are "unauthorized", but if you think I'm mistaken about that given I'm not a local of your area, I'm concerned about your edits, and I hardly use Mapillary images, I'll try to help.

Again, what sources do you refer to if you say "DEARPAUL24 Media/Research"? That's where I'm getting concerned about the sources of your edits, especially those causing the overload situations that annoys me (and to other mappers as well).

If you think a mapping issue can be fixed by yourself, I think you shouldn't be raising it up here.

[TagaSanPedroAko]

I'll go to sleep 🛌, so I'll ask @govvin to share his points about this.

[TagaSanPedroAko]

@DearPaulPH Waiting for the reply of @govvin and @maning, I've cleaned up again your latest edit provided my concerns above.

Again, don't get into the habit of adding anything redundant or verifiable, to the annoyance of other mappers. I'm still seeing you adding completely redundant lanes:forward/backward tags on every road you edit, which I think should be used if the road has a odd number of lanes (ex. 3 lanes).

I'm convinced it's not advisable to tag something related to laws if its not marked, just like what you're doing here. This might also go with speed limits, though I still believe we should be tagging them for use by routing apps.

Also, better provide more specific sources that we know where do you exactly get the info you added.

Stay home, stay safe. Ingat!

[maning]

@DearPaulPH @TagaSanPedroAko Please stop editing/reverting each other's this edit for now. Let's discuss, I'm willing to discuss this either in chat or voice if you are OK with it. Writing in English may come as abrasive for non-native speakers (like me).

That said, without any local knowledge about this specific situation, here are my thoughts.

At last, don't think like you "own" your home area from the way you say my edits are "unauthorized",

Agree, no one owns a place in OSM, but we should respect local knowledge. In this case, Paul seems to live in the area, I assume he knows the area well more than other mappers.

I fixed the title.

That's where I'm getting concerned about the sources of your edits, especially those causing the overload situations that annoys me (and to other mappers as well).

Is the data wrong though? While I partly agree that some of the edits are "excessive stuff" and can be implied with other tags, as long as its not vandalism or wrong information, I don't think we should limit mappers with what they want to add in the map.

It looks like there is a difference with both your mapping approach, I'm not saying one is wrong than the other. Let's discuss more, again I'm willing to do this via chat or voice, lmk.

[TagaSanPedroAko]

@DearPaulPH @TagaSanPedroAko Please stop editing/reverting each other's this edit for now. Let's discuss, I'm willing to discuss this either in chat or voice if you are OK with it. Writing in English may come as abrasive for non-native speakers (like me). That said, without any local knowledge about this specific situation, here are my thoughts.

At last, don't think like you "own" your home area from the way you say my edits are "unauthorized",

Agree, no one owns a place in OSM, but we should respect local knowledge. In this case, Paul seems to live in the area, I assume he knows the area well more than other mappers. I fixed the title.

That's where I'm getting concerned about the sources of your edits, especially those causing the overload situations that annoys me (and to other mappers as well).

Is the data wrong though? While I partly agree that some of the edits are "excessive stuff" and can be implied with other tags, as long as its not vandalism or wrong information, I don't think we should limit mappers with what they want to add in the map. It looks like there is a difference with both your mapping approach, I'm not saying one is wrong than the other. Let's discuss more, again I'm willing to do this via chat or voice, lmk.

I see we're much used to use English at OSM, but I'll try to continue this in Tagalog, even if we're aware Paul is more inclined to write in English.

---

@maning

Walang problema, pero sa opinyon ko, mabuti pa rin kung konti lang ang tag na ginagamit niya, na hindi ako nahihirapang mag-edit. Mabuti rin namang kung iminamapa nating ang no parking malapit sa bike lane o hydrant doon sa kanyang tinitirhan, pero kung ipasok natin sa usapan ang tungkol sa verifiability -- kung makikita iyon sa aktwal or -- mas mabuti pa rin ang imapa lang yon kung may nakapaskil na karatula or may pintura sa gutter. Pag wala, mas mabuti na hayaan niya na lang yung kalsadang ineedit niya: wag na lang imapa yon.

Naiintindihan ko maraming tag ang ginagamit ni @DearPaulPH, pero kung sasabihin ko ang posisyon ko tungkol sa ilang mga edit niya, tingin ko may duda ako kung saan niya nakukuha ang ilang minamapa niya. Tama lang namang sabihin "overload" ang ilan sa kanyang mga minamapa, dahil sobra-sobra ang detalye at minsan, kaduda-duda ang source ng impormasyong minamapa niya (tulang ng mga edit na may source na sinasabi: "[DEARPAUL24] Research").

Ilan sa kanyang mga edit na pinagdududahan ko ay ang tungkol sa paglipat ng mga provincial bus na papasok ng Maynila sa tatlong mga bagong terminal: ang PITX, SRITT, at Valenzuela Gateway Complex. Sa totoo, may ilang bus company ang naglipat na ng operasyon sa mga terminal na iyon (base sa plano ng LTFRB at MMDA), pero sa nakita ko sa pag-uwi ko noong 2019, ang karamihan ng mga ruta ay nagteterminal pa rin sa sa Cubao, Pasay Rotonda, Buendia, at sa iba pang lugar, at sa huling balita tungkol doon, karamihan sa mga bus company ay kumokontra sa paglipat. Inaayos ko na ang ilan sa mga rutang inimapa niya para magterminal sa alinman sa mga terminal na iyon, at minessage ko rin si Paul na masyado pang maaga para gawin iyon base sa nakita ko sa aktwal.

[TagaSanPedroAko]

@maning Can we close this now? @DearPaulPH I think you better learn from this, as well as from my comments and messages regarding your edits. Nakakaubos ng pasensya ang ilang edit mo, pero, please, baguhin mo ang style ng pagmamapa mo. Better sick on ground truth. Stay safe everyone.