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Adding more heat terms #1254

Closed Alex2448 closed 1 year ago

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

Description of the issue

In general, we should introduce more terms about heat, since over 50% of end energy usage is used for heat. In the current implementation, concepts of thermal energy are mixed with electric energy which leads to some confusion. Therefore, I propose to introduce some heat concepts: @OpenEnergyPlatform/oeo-domain-expert-energy-modelling

Ideas of solution

General:

Solar heat:

Geothermal:

There are several technologies which use different depth level of geothermal heat. The deeper you drill, the hotter it is and you can get more heat but there are also higher risks and costs. In general, we distinguish between 2 layers of depth:

Downhole heat exchanger and geothermal collector and geothermal wells are used in near-surface geothermal depth. For hydrothermal geometrie, drillings are carried out in deep geothermal depth and water (with high temperatur) from high depths is transported to the surface. This is quite similar to geothermal wells except that the wells are in near-surface geothermal depth. So to distinguish these two kinds of technology, introducing different depth level is conveniant.

The difference between petrothermal geothermal (like downhole heat exchanger and geothermal collector) and hydrothermal geothermal is that hydrothermal geothermal get the thermal energy from water which is already in the crust and petrothermal geothermal, water is pressed in the drills. So distinguishing between different media is also conveniant to describe the technologies.

This may need some discussion on how to introduce these concepts and terminologies.

But first, there are some terminologies which are quite clear:

Workflow checklist

I am aware that

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

There is a problem that combined heat and power generating unit and combined heat and power generation also have co-generating power unit or co-generation as alternative label. Since we want to add cogeneration plant, these have to be changed.

We can define CHPPs as a subclass of cogeneration plant or the other way around: cogeneration plant as alternative label of CHPPs and heat and power plant as the parent class. But then, we have to change several definitions in the ontology accordingly, like combined heat and power generation.

Which way do you think makes more sense? @OpenEnergyPlatform/oeo-domain-expert-energy-modelling

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

@OpenEnergyPlatform/oeo-domain-expert-energy-modelling:

What do you think so far about the definitions: heat transfer unit, heat exchanger, heat plant (the top four defintions, in General) as well as the definitions of Solar heat so far?

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 2 years ago

Heat Transfer Unit

A heat transfer unit is a energy transformation unit that contains a heat exchanger among other parts.

What's the point of "among other parts"? Are they relevant? Are they secret and can't be detailed? I suspect this got copied over from power generating unit. We should loose it there, too, as it is irrelevant. #1258

Heat Plant Are all heat plants connected to a heating grid, no matter how short?

A heat plant is an energy transformation unit consisting of heat transfer units and a grid component that feeds thermal energy into a heating grid.

So is on-site heat production in industry considered to have a very small heating grid? (I'm neither here nor there, it's just something about which we should make up our minds.)

Solar Heat

A solar heat unit is a heat transfer unit using solar heat.

  1. There's no solar heat class.
  2. That would make it an energy transformation unit that contains a heat exchanger using solar heat. That is not how solar thermal works. It converts radiation into thermal energy, and not by a heat exchanger.

See solar thermal energy transformation.

Co-generation

The definition of combined heat and power plant is redundant.

A combined heat and power plant (CHPP) is a cogeneration plant that has combined heat and power generating units as parts.

A cogeneration plant is an energy transformation unit consisting of combined heat and power generating units and

I'd opt for using co-generation as an alternative term for CHP. There's also tri-generation out there (electricity, heat, and cooling; or electricity, heat, and desalinated water, depending on who tries to sell it) and there might be somebody with a process that does either electricity and desalinated water or electricity and carbon removal (using off-heat to regenerate their scrubbers) and call that co-generation. If somebody wants to annotate that with the ontology, it will have to be adapted and alternative terms are easier to shuffle than definitions, I feel.

l-emele commented 2 years ago

This issue covers a lot of topics. I think, it makes sense to discuss these on one of our next OEO dev meetings.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

Heat Transfer Unit You are right, I tried to stay consistent and formulate definitions similar to their energy counterpart, so I copied the definition from power generating unit. So as discussed in #1258, I would also remove the "among other parts" part and the new formulation would be:

A heat transfer unit is a energy transformation unit that contains a heat exchanger.

Heat Plant I think considering different lengths of heating grid would maybe be overthinking and overengineering and complicate things unnecessarily. So I would keep things similar to power plants and stay with my proposed definition.

Solar heat:

  1. As discussed in the last developer meeting, not every word of the defintion needs to be already defined in the ontology and have a class. So I think having a solar heat class may be unnecessary but I can exchange it with solar thermal energy which is already defined and the new defintion would be:

    A solar heat unit is a heat transfer unit using solar thermal energy.
  2. The definition of heat exchanger is:

     A heat exchanger is an component converting device that is used for a heat transfer process.

And for the heat transfer:

    Heat transfer is an energy transfer with thermal energy as the only input and thermal energy as the only output.

So I do not think there is much of a problem for the definitions. But I can see that in reality, a heat exchanger is often not really the part of a solar thermal power plant. So one proposal to define a solar thermal unit which is not a subclass of heat transfer unit and has as parent class energy transformation unit although this might be a bit confusing:

    A solar thermal unit is a energy transformation unit that converts solar energy into thermal energy.

Co-generation:

I think maybe the motivation why we want to introduce a separate parent class is a bit unclear.

There already exists combined heat and power generation, combined heat and power plant and combined heat and power generation unit. The combined heat and power plant has as alternative label CHPP, the combined heat and power generation has as alternative label CHP but the combined heat and power generation unit has as alternative label co-generating power unit which might be a bit confusing.

combined heat and power generation is defined as:

    Combined heat and power generation (CHP) is an energy transformation that converts energy simultaneously to electrical energy and thermal energy.

So to include things like tri-generation and other cases, we still have to adapt the definition of f.e. combined heat and power generation too.

The goal with my proposed definition is to make more clear what we define as CHPs and co-generations and do it consistently and also be more open for other generations of heat and power which might not be simultaneously.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

@OpenEnergyPlatform/oeo-domain-expert-energy-modelling In oeo dev 42, we discussed that Near-surface geothermal depth (up to 500m) and Deep geothermal depth (1500m - 4500m) of geothermal energy can be similar described like sector division: So the proposal in this meeting was: Creating a new subclasss of sector division: 'crust depth division'. The problem is that I cannot find any suitable destinction (besides hard numbers in meter or temperature in °C) of the crust, since we still drill in the crust and not in the mantle.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

As discussed in OEO Dev 42, I would like to introduce these classes additionally to my suggestion:

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 2 years ago

A heat plant is a combined heat and power plant consisting of heat transfer units or a heater and a grid component that feeds thermal energy into a heating grid.

Don't you think this to be confusing? Common usage would see heating plants as distinct from combined heat and power plants, in so far as they don't produce any power (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heating_plant).

l-emele commented 2 years ago

Common usage would see heating plant as distinct from combined heat and power plants, in so far as they don't produce any power

I agree.

carstenhoyerklick commented 2 years ago

I agree that may be confusing, as I think what has been meant here is the heating part of the CHP System as a heat plant. Splitting this suggests that the heat and power production can be separated, which I am not shure if this is the case.

I think the main principle of a combined heat and power plant is, that the incoming energy carrier cannot be converted into electricy completely. In the conversion process from the incoming energy carrier there will always be some heat as part of the process which is used in the CHP plant to increase the overall efficiency.

Therefore I would not create subprocess of CHP of power and heat, as this is an integrated process anyway. This would make this type of heat plant obsolete.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

I agree with @0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q that heating plants are not a part of CHPs which produce mainly electricity. Heat plant produce mainly heat. Do you think that both heat plant and combined heat and power plant should be a subclass of energy transformation unit (so the same level as power plant) and there should be no common parent class?

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

@l-emele @carstenhoyerklick Do you think that both heat plant and combined heat and power plant (currently implemented as a subclass of power plant) should be a subclass of energy transformation unit (so the same level as power plant) and there should be no common parent class? So all 3 plants existing in parallel as a subclass of energy transformation unit?

Also, in oeo dev 42, we discussed that Near-surface geothermal depth (up to 500m) and Deep geothermal depth (1500m - 4500m) of geothermal energy can be similar described like sector division. So the proposal in this meeting was: Creating a new subclasss of sector division: 'crust depth division'. The problem is that I cannot find any suitable destinction (besides hard numbers in meter or temperature in °C) of the crust, since we still drill in the crust and not in the mantle.

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 2 years ago

@l-emele @carstenhoyerklick Do you think that both heat plant and combined heat and power plant (currently implemented as a subclass of power plant) should be a subclass of energy transformation unit (so the same level as power plant) and there should be no common parent class? So all 3 plants existing in parallel as a subclass of energy transformation unit?

We have:

A power plant is an energy transformation unit consisting of power generating units and a grid component that feeds electric energy into an electric grid.

I'd suggest:

A heat plant is an energy transformation unit consisting of heat generating units and a grid component that feeds thermal energy into a heating grid.

A heat generating unit is an energy transformation unit that contains a heat exchanger.

(Analogous to power generating unit containing a generator.)

A combined heat and power plant is an energy transformation unit consisting of power generating units, heat generating units, a grid component that feeds electric energy into an electric grid, and a grid component that feeds thermal energy into a heating grid.

I don't see a point in a common parent class between the plants and energy transformation unit. The only feasible axioms for it would be has some energy transformation unit (parent of power generating unit and heat generating unit) and has some grid component. What's the point in having this class if we don't use it for anything?

l-emele commented 2 years ago

I agree on the following definition proposals:

I suggest to extend the following definition:

I don't see a clear reason yet why to change the existing classes combined heat and power plant and combined heat and power generating unit.

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 2 years ago

I'm puzzled.

  • A heat transfer unit is an energy transformation unit that can contain a heater or a heat exchanger.

Heat transfer currently is defined as energy transfer with both inputs and outputs of thermal energy. Should a heat transfer unit implement heat transfer? What's the heater doing there?

  • A heat generating unit is an energy transformation unit that contains a heat exchanger or heater.

Good point.

I don't see a clear reason yet why to change the existing classes combined heat and power plant and combined heat and power generating unit.

Some measure of orthogonality between power, heat, and combined heat and power plants. But it's not necessary.

l-emele commented 2 years ago

Seems, I read over the a heater or part in heat transfer unit. Of course, that should be deleted. Anyway, we should make heat transfer unit a subclass of heat generating unit. Something like: A heat transfer unit is an heat generating unit that contains a heat exchanger. Axioms:

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

To summarize the discussion: you think I should rename heat transfer unit to heat generating unit to distinguish from heat transfer process, as far as I understand it. Then we will not need heat transfer unit anymore I think, @l-emele.

l-emele commented 2 years ago

If heat transfer unit is not needed anymore we do not need to include this.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

To summarize the discussion:

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

I discussed it with Christoph and Beneharo, and we decided to implement it like you suggested @l-emele, with both heat transfer unit and heat generating unit.

Further, since there is no consensus about the geothermal issue, I will open a new issue about that and implement the rest of this issue.

l-emele commented 2 years ago

I am okay if you implement both heat generating unit and heat transfer unit.

Some suggestions and comments regarding your geothermal concepts:

[^1]: Geothermal energy is thermal energy that is released from within the earth's crust. [^2]: Ambient thermal energy is thermal energy that is stored in the ambient air, beneath the surface of solid earth or in surface water. It is captured by heat pumps.

Regarding the solar concepts:

While talking about solar, I am thinking of the existing solar thermal collector class: A solar thermal collector is a heater that ~absorbs solar radiation to convert it into heat~ converts solar energy to solar thermal energy.

Sorry, this comment has gotten a bit long...

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

@l-emele thanks for the comments and suggestions!

I agree with the rest of your suggestions.

l-emele commented 2 years ago

The only difference is the depth on where this is installed and I do not quite know how to model depth devision since everything is still in the crust and we should avoid hard numbers. (I explained it better in some comments above in this issue and also in the initial description of the issue).

If we are not able to differentiate it from an other class, than we should not include it.

A solar heat plant is a heat plant that has solar heat units as parts and consists of solar thermal collectors.

The solar unit heat has solar thermal collectors as parts. The solar heat plant has solar heat units as parts. Therefore, every solar heat plant has also solar thermal collectors as parts. We don't need to repeat that in the definition.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

Currently, the PR#1360 does not implement the geothermal well system, geothermal collector and downhole heat exchanger. For these, see Issue#1361.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

I opened a new discussion on solar thermal power plant in Issue#1378 and do not implement this in PR#1360.

Alex2448 commented 2 years ago

I opened a new discussion on solar thermal power plant in Issue#1378 and do not implement this in PR#1360.

I added solar heat plant and solar heat unit now in PR#1360.