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New terms for Carbon Capture and Sequestration, as well as related terms #863

Closed 0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q closed 3 years ago

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 3 years ago

Description of the issue

This originates from OEO Dev Meeting 24.

The concepts of Carbon Capture and Sequestration are not yet represented in the Ontology. This probably needs a lot of discussion to capture all aspects needed by different models (calling on @OpenEnergyPlatform/oeo-domain-expert-energy-modelling).

Ideas of solution

During the meeting, we identified four terms that will be needed:

Further suggestions and ideas for definitions are welcome.

Workflow checklist

I am aware that

l-emele commented 3 years ago

Some first proposals:

KaiSchnepf commented 3 years ago

I think, we should discuss whether to use storage or sequestration. @0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q is using sequestration and @l-emele is using both. I have little experience with domains so my logical solution would be that we prefer one term and use the other as an alternative term. I disagree with the definition of carbon sequestration because it does not include pyrogenic carbon which could be a useful fertiliser in future and is not stored in a geological formation. Another proposal for carbon sequestration: Carbon sequestration is a process that stores carbon dioxide.

Even with the proposed definitions, we have the problem from #866 that carbon is not precise. Probably, it is common sense that carbon capture means carbon dioxide capture.

l-emele commented 3 years ago

I think, we should discuss whether to use storage or sequestration. @0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q is using sequestration and @l-emele is using both. I have little experience with domains so my logical solution would be that we prefer one term and use the other as an alternative term.

That is a question of the proper label which we can solve at the very end.

I disagree with the definition of carbon sequestration because it does not include pyrogenic carbon which could be a useful fertiliser in future and is not stored in a geological formation.

This seems to be a different concept than what I described. Maybe we need a parent concept of carbon sequestration and then two more specific derived concepts.

Another proposal for carbon sequestration: Carbon sequestration is a process that stores carbon dioxide.

This could be a parent concept. So it could be:

@0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q : Any thoughts?

KaiSchnepf commented 3 years ago

Another proposal for carbon sequestration: Carbon sequestration is a process that stores carbon dioxide.

This could be a parent concept. So it could be:

  • Carbon sequestration is a process that stores carbon or carbon dioxide.

    • X is carbon sequestration that stores CO2 in a geological formation.
    • Y is carbon sequestration that stores pyrogenic carbon. (I am not very familiar with this concept, but I assume you mean this.)

Yes, I mean this concept. But this concept also includes the carbon capture which is not included in carbon sequestration. For this reason, we should perhaps also add pyrogenic carbon capture as a subclass of carbon capture. So we could call Y pyrogenic carbon storage. Or we just add a subclass of carbon capture and storage: pyrogenic carbon capture and storage Which fits better? Who has expert knowledge in this field?

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 3 years ago

I disagree with the definition of carbon sequestration because it does not include pyrogenic carbon which could be a useful fertiliser in future and is not stored in a geological formation.

This seems to be a different concept than what I described. Maybe we need a parent concept of carbon sequestration and then two more specific derived concepts.

I'm not sure pyrogenic carbon would be considerer CCS by everyone. I guess it carbon retention times are extremely dependent on land management practices and so forth. At least in the IAMC template, it would not count as CCS, but probably be lumped into afforestation.
Is there a use user of the ontology (@OpenEnergyPlatform/oeo-domain-expert-energy-modelling ) currently needing to represent this? If not, I would move to table this issue until a later time and get on with what we do need now.

l-emele commented 3 years ago

I am fine with leaving out pyrogenic carbon and focus on the current needs.

KaiSchnepf commented 3 years ago

So should we implement this:

  • Carbon capture is a process that captures carbon dioxide from a gas.
  • Direct ~carbon~ air capture is carbon capture from air.
  • Carbon sequestration is a process that stores CO2 in a geological formation.
  • Carbon capture and storage is a process that combines carbon capture and carbon sequestration.
l-emele commented 3 years ago

I am fine with either storage or sequestration. But we should be consistent, so use either carbon sequestration and carbon capture and sequestration or carbon storage and carbon capture and storage as labels. Anyway, we should include the respective other terms as alternative terms. And the abbreviations should be alternative terms, too.

@0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q and @stap-m : Any preferences for the labels?

l-emele commented 3 years ago

We also need to describe at least the relations between the processes and CO2.

0UmfHxcvx5J7JoaOhFSs5mncnisTJJ6q commented 3 years ago

Any preferences for the labels?

Nope.

l-emele commented 3 years ago

Okay, then I suggest that we use storage as main label, simply because it is a bit closes to the definition which contains the word stores.

Regarding:

Do we need the terms in oeo-shared or is oeo-physical enough?

It should be implemented in oeo-physical. If we see later that we need these classes in other modules, we still can shift them.

We also need to describe at least the relations between the processes and CO2.

'has physical input' some 'carbon dioxide' should be the right relation.

stap-m commented 3 years ago

Is this ready for implementation?

l-emele commented 3 years ago

I think so, I can do that.