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Alcaeus and Sappho? #2682

Open lcerrato opened 1 year ago

lcerrato commented 1 year ago

Have they been on any pick lists? I cannot find them.

AlisonBabeu commented 1 year ago

hi @lcerrato for some reason when I was compiling our data entry list I mistakenly thought we had an edition of Sappho. There are three separate TLGs for their fragments, tlg0383 for Alcaeus, tlg0009 and then tlg1815 (for the two of them). Shall I add an edition to the First1K data entry picklist?

lcerrato commented 1 year ago

Sure! The Sappho edition linked in the catalog is far more conjecture than text when compared to other editions so I was surprised by how much of it was filled in without bracketing or other notation on the speculative parts. I'm not sure if there is a better one since those tend to be more modern.

AlisonBabeu commented 1 year ago

So @lcerrato there are a few different ones in the catalog including one or two SLUB editions, any recommendations as to which one should go on the picklist?

lcerrato commented 1 year ago

Not really, but perhaps: https://catalog.perseus.org/catalog/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0009.tlg001.opp-grc1

lmuellner commented 1 year ago

Hi Alison and Lisa,

The Sappho and Alcaeus texts with all the gaps filled in and without even brackets showing where — they’re not worth doing! They were left out of the 1st!K because it is restricted to texts preserved in mss., not fragments or papyri, I think because Neal and Chris didn’t want to deal with the problem of a text attested partly inside other texts (as quotations, like Sappho #1, in Longinus) as well as texts that are incomplete. I think that the CTS system has trouble with that, but I also think that they figured it out — Greg and dThomas K. will know. Anyhow, the best text of Sappho is the one by Eva Maria Vogt, and I may be wrong but I think it’s a Teubner. Worth checking. As for Alcaeus and other, there are Teubners that might be usable, like Anthologia Lyrica Graeca ed. E. Diehl, 1964. But I’m not sure what the rules are for them. Not sure this is helpful!!

Best, Lenny

PS Sorry for missing the meeting on Thursday — I just totally zoned out. Gotta get used to it again!!

On Dec 19, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Alison Babeu @.***> wrote:

There are a few different ones in the catalog including one or two SLUB editions, any recommendations as to which one should go on the picklist?

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenGreekAndLatin/First1KGreek/issues/2682#issuecomment-1358140226, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABQXABDLII5OIUWT3COFJJ3WOCYCTANCNFSM6AAAAAATCXFO7U. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.

lcerrato commented 1 year ago

Hi @lmuellner That's precisely the reason they are not in Perseus to begin with — too fragmentary. (I've been answering this question from the beginning of my time at Perseus!) I did a brief look at some of these and they do not do a good job of distinguishing the recreated text from the surviving text.

I'm not promoting inclusion if it means presenting a less than ideal text, but it's one of those things that comes up a lot. Quoted texts is another issue (see Monica with Athenaeus). We would not be equipped to fully mark up things in this way (yet) but complex texts are something we will want editors to work on.

We do have the Greek Anthology in Perseus for Epigrams but this is not broken down by author, so the original email correspondent would have no way of finding these.

I found nascent xml for all of the LCL Greek Lyric volumes but these were never published.

So in those files there are some elemenary tags for the testimonia — interesting —:

<div2 type="testimonium" n="1"><head lang="en"><bibl n="Pap. Oxy. 1800">P. Oxy. 1800</bibl> fr. 1<note n="1"/></head>

<div2 type="testimonium" n="7"><head lang="en"><bibl n="tlg-0099.001:13.2.3"><author>Str.</author> 13.2.3</bibl> (<bibl><biblScope>iii 65s.</biblScope> <editor>Kramer</editor></bibl>)</head>

lcerrato commented 1 year ago

@AlisonBabeu @lmuellner I should also add that this comes as OGL is adding lots of fragmentary stuff, such as the Euripides I just completed, where we have single word fragments. So it's hard to continue to exclude these other poets.

These are challenging files, though, so we may just have a very basic first pass.

Thanks for adding your comments!

AlisonBabeu commented 1 year ago

hi @lcerrato and @lcerrato , the Greek Anthology on Perseus has always bothered me because I have all of the individual author and work level metadata in the catalog, its always been a question of how to link them. So I guess my question at this point is should I add an edition to the data entry list or no? And if so which one? The Voigt edition of Sappho was published in 1971, but I just gave up using Worldcat to find an edition (they have changed the interface), the Diehl edition of Alcaeus is a reprint of a much earlier series that is in the Perseus Catalog.

lcerrato commented 1 year ago

Hi @AlisonBabeu At this point, I have the Lyric Poets LCL edition on hand, so that is the one I would add (for now).

I think it is this: https://archive.org/details/greeklyric0001unse/page/2/mode/2up

AlisonBabeu commented 1 year ago

Ok @lcerrato that is what I will put on the list.