Closed gusaus closed 3 years ago
majick777
commented
3 years ago OpenRadio is another good word combination to accentuate the open source side. I do like Radiopack, but it sounds like it will outgrow being a bundler so this could be limiting. What about something like RadioRack... (like an amp rack for radio) or RadioStack..? (software stack for radio development)
gusaus
commented
3 years ago Thanks for the input @majick777! OpenRadio is one we considered before... but if you do a Google search, you'll see the namespace is already a bit crowded. Your other suggestions may be worth exploring if I'm not able to make a strong case for keeping some variation of OpenProducer as the name.
As I'm talking to (hopefully) the product owners and project leads we need to make this decision together. We need to evaluate on a marketing/branding/revenue-generating level... also keeping in mind we're now 12 days out from having our fundraising block enabled (the page is already live https://fundoss.org/collective/openproducerplatform) and amplified for a two week period by several orgs and communities with a ton of reach (including Open Collective, Gitcoin, and even WordPress community or something like WPTavern if we work it).
Look over my personal motivations and goals https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-828256497 and you'll see I'm all over the latter. Not just this platform but any project OpenProducer (the service) is working with.
Hopefully, that provides a bit more context and clarity around some of the (often lingering, but now rapidly moving) parts.
@majick777 @tonyzeoli That all said, I'm going to close out this issue and ask you both to read over and comment on the related discussion in our channel on Open Collective's Slack. https://opencollective.slack.com/archives/C22E2D2F2/p1620351833399000
You'll see I've already provided more detail about the history of the project and explained there are already multiple flavors of OpenProducer which could be revived at some point.
We're actually about to hit the road on a camping trip with some good friends. One of 'em works at Amazon.com and has offered connections and AWS resources in the past... I've never really followed up because I never felt like there was a solid team... up until now!?! The other reason I'd like to centralize all non-project related discussions in our channel, is we already have folks from AzuraCast, LibreTime, and other related projects discussing collaboration in our issue queue and in our channel. Also lurking is my Amazon friend, an Aquia co-founder, Open Collective co-founder, KCRW DJ, and other music biz/music tech folks.
I'd like to keep our discussions limited to these on-topic threads (all pinned for easy access). I don't want to directly ping anyone (especially anyone not currently involved) but instead make sure that everybody is tracking threads relevant to them.
Ok - now I really need to close this and get packing for our trip. I'll be basically off the grid for the US holiday long weekend, but will be checking Slack periodically.
I'd like to finalize decisions on the name, ownership, project leads, moving this repo to Netmix no later than end of day Tuesday so we can focus on marketing, fundraising, and onboarding messaging for FundOSS and beyond. The latter is my focus on the OpenProducer project team. But it's important we strategize together.
Ok - now I'm talking in circles. See y'all on the Slack side. I'm wicked excited about actually working together on stuff in June!
majick777
commented
3 years ago @gusaus Ive managed to catch up on the Slack discussions but have not had time to get into any discussions there... Id personally rather answer to these specific issues as I have spare time (which isnt much since 99% of my time is spent on getting Pro ready to ship right now.)
So I know you want to move this discussion to Slack but feel its maybe a little premature to close this..? Id like to add some further thoughts on this front regarding repo ownership and names...
I think keeping this Open Producer platform repo as the combined result of multiple projects does kinda make sense, and creates a good space for discussions. I dont think either myself or Tony Z see ourselves as being able to commit as much regular time to these kind of discussions as you already do, so taking over this repo doesnt quite make sense on that front either.
As contrasted to a bundler/install plugin repo as discussed (assuming Netmix were to take care of that repo - I have yet to discuss with @tonyzeoli but I'm sure its a possibility under the caveat that it doesnt take away from Radio Station main product development) which could be made and kept separate... If we did do that, I think we'd need to have input on deciding the name so that it would be in line with Netmix goals/branding (even if simply because rebranding later is a pain!)
Because I can see the potential here for themes also... Newspack provides 5 child themes, there is no reason why as part of an overall bundle/project to think we wouldn't be adding to thise at some point... especially if a frontend dev comes on board and wants to design 1 or more radio-style themes. (Remembering of course Radio Station as a plugin is theme-agnostic, so this isnt Netmix's focus per se) There is room for another discussion around this aspect by itself of course, as it is not just about design (as is the common misconception when it comes to WordPress themes) but in terms of what the Newspack base theme as to offer in terms of integrated functionality and how that plays out in a child theme.
gusaus
commented
3 years ago @majick777 First off - I really appreciate your and @tonyzeoli's time and input here and the related Github issues and Slack discussions. I'm very aware of your priorities as Netmix and have some knowledge of your other work and personal commitments.
I also recognize Open Collective (providing tools to sustain) and OpenProducer (providing people to help develop, maintain, & sustain projects like Radio Station https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-828246719 and this platform https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-834863193) seem more like hard to grasp concepts, rather than real things that could alleviate Netmix from providing all the resources (funds and people).
If we're clear on needs beforehand (again see https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4) we're just nine days out from putting these concepts to the test https://fundoss.org/collective/openproducerplatform
Couple follow-up thoughts to your points above https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/23#issuecomment-850986043
I think keeping this Open Producer platform repo as the combined result of multiple projects does kinda make sense, and creates a good space for discussions. I dont think either myself or Tony Z see ourselves as being able to commit as much regular time to these kind of discussions as you already do, so taking over this repo doesnt quite make sense on that front either.
We'd keep this repo intact (https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/) but would make it function like a proper, well-defined/organized release... including clear install instructions on the readme and whatnot. I'm not a project manager, but assuming we should create issues for all release ready tasks.
When I'm suggesting Netmix own it or move this or really all related repos under https://github.com/netmix, I'm not implying you and Tony should make any long term commitment to support and maintain OR that Netmix should be the business entity on the hook for sponsoring the following project(s). Once we define our process for crowdfunding features and projects (a top priority task for me this week https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/13) we'll start using these collectives to sustain the project independently of Netmix. https://opencollective.com/openproducerplatform https://opencollective.com/radio-station
That said, I am recommending you and Tony come aboard as OpenProducer platform leads and either do whatever is needed create a proper release (including the bundler plugin) or at least provide guidance (probably in the form of well defined feature request(s)) to whoever we may need to complete the task(s). Just having you both (and ideally Netmix as the Github org) front and center will allow me to focus on engage the WordPress community for the FundOSS duration. In addition to making it much more likely that we can raise the necessary funds to cover your time spent on OpenProducer platform. As a dependecy, you also can amplify and direct funds towards https://opencollective.com/radio-station (and the PRO plugin/service if launched in that window).
As contrasted to a bundler/install plugin repo as discussed (assuming Netmix were to take care of that repo - I have yet to discuss with @tonyzeoli but I'm sure its a possibility under the caveat that it doesnt take away from Radio Station main product development) which could be made and kept separate... If we did do that, I think we'd need to have input on deciding the name so that it would be in line with Netmix goals/branding (even if simply because rebranding later is a pain!)
@majick777 Again I totally agree - except for maybe, I'm the only one suggesting that all related repos be under the same org. Hopefully I've clarified that this doesn't mean that Netmix invest any additional resources (time or funds) - it's a way to bring additional resources (marketing and funds) towards your current project and business priorities. @tonyzeoli has access to the repo with the on-topic issue https://github.com/OpenProducer/internal/issues/8 I've only left it private because It's more of Netmix business issue. I'd be happy to transfer that repo or issue over the Netmix Github org.
Let me close out this comment that's on/off taking me a good part of my day to write something clear. Our success in https://fundoss.org/ is dependant on decoupling the OpenProducer platform from the service (transferring platform related repos to Netmix will solve) AND removing any perception of me being the product manager or development lead. Adding you both to the OpenProducer platform (Github repo and collective) would allow me to fully focus on promotion and fundraising - I can do that with confidence knowing that actual WordPress professionals are at the helm. I can't be effective if I'm also the PM or lead dev imposter. We'd all lose out on potentially a nice chunk of funds funneling into our projects beginning in 8 days!
Slightly related, but relevant to me being focused and effective. I'm obviously not a PM or requirements writer guy - I'm not a WordPress (or Drupal developer) - OpenProducer (the service - https://github.com/OpenProducer/community) can be tasked with bringing in people who do these things well. If we can clarify any people needs (again you can both help by reading over and comment on this one issue https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4) and incorporating into our FundOSS messaging, I'm confident we'll find the long term contributors all our related projects need. This was my last attempt at identifying common needs based on feedback in that issue https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-828256497
On a personal note (but very relevant what I can effectively focus and do in the short term) - I'm currently taking a good bit of upfront time and risk trying to get multiple projects ready for this fundraiser. As the ONLY WordPress participant, OpenProducer could receive a ton of buzz and attention from the WordPress community. I'm ready to fully immerse myself in multiple communities (including WordPress and Open Collective) and see if we can get sites like WP Tavern to amplify. If you check out all the Open Collective related posts they've done in the past (again Open Collective is one of the FundOSS partners) it doesn't seem like a stretch to get our participation featured https://wptavern.com/?s=open+collective
That I can do with you both and Netmix as the visible leads and Github org. I simply don't have the skills, confidence or headspace to do everything alone... that was a fact going into the long weekend. Even moreso now that my father died over Memorial day. Without oversharing, I'll just say myself and my immediate family will come out ok (unfortunately this is not the first time I've lost a parent or sibling) - we won't have to fly cross country to Boston until probably July - it does mean that family issues will be competing for my time/headspace in the short term. I'll be able to balance both if I'm only focusing on the promotion and fundraising.
My dad was a pretty motivated/successful business guy - I wanna kick ass this entire month in his honor!!
tonyzeoli
commented
3 years ago @gusaus @majick777 Let me refocus the discussion here on the initial concept.
First, Radio Station is a plugin only and does not have a related theme. @majick777 has thrown around the idea of having a complimentary theme to go with Radio Station at some point in the future.
On my side, my intent was to really focus on building an amazing plugin and leaving theming to others. However, having a complimentary theme is probably a good idea - at some point.
@gusaus and I have been talking about the OpenProducer platform being a gateway to having a development side of Netmix. That he would bring in radio stations and we could help them build their station websites on OpenProducer + Radio Station + Azuracast. Not a bad idea and another source of revenue. Gus would do "biz dev" and sell the idea to stations. We would then bring in the project and manage it with my India team and Tony just overseeing some of the technical aspects, but not getting deeply involved in the day to day.
These development projects would be priced at $7K to $10k with user experience design being done by my designer for Digital Strategy Works, most of the implementation done by India, with me and my India PM handling the development aspects.
But now we are at a point where Gus wants to get funding to develop OpenProducer as a WordPress project from the FundOSS group. Gus is seeking @majick777 and myself to lead the project. Conceptually, I get that and if we can just pitch the project and get funding, then there will be resources to share to build out this idea.
That then gives Netmix a full-on package to offer to stations behind the scenes.
QUESTION FOR @gusaus: Does the project need to actually be live and usable for FundOSS to fund it, or can it be just the concept outlined and funding helps start the project?
In terms of Newspace, i got an email back from the CEO. He said that we can discuss the integration of Newspack into OpenPRoducer and have it continue to be supported by the Newspack team for a price per install. So, everytime we sell OpenProducer to a radio station, we then pay a license fee to Newpack for upgrades and yearly support most likely at a discounted price.
What I'm not sure about is whether Newspack is truly available as an open-source project that we can get updates from. It's supposed to under the GPL I thought, so I don't know why we would pay for a support license other than it's just a good idea to have one and turn to them to support their product. I don't think that's a bad idea, either, if it's per install and we can get the station on a yearly renewal for support that includes that fee.
tonyzeoli
commented
3 years ago Oh, wow...I'm so sorry I didn't read the last two paragraphs. That is sad news. I'm sorry for your loss and wish your family peace and comfort during this difficult time.
I could possibly be in Boston myself sometime in July. I do not know. While you have pressing family matters, it would be a coincidence to be in Boston at the same time, but possibly meet in person briefly. Please keep me apprised of your schedule.
On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 8:13 PM Gus Austin @.***> wrote:
@majick777 https://github.com/majick777 First off - I really appreciate your and @tonyzeoli https://github.com/tonyzeoli's time and input here and the related Github issues and Slack discussions. I'm very aware of your priorities as Netmix and have some knowledge of your other work and personal commitments.
I also recognize Open Collective https://opencollective.com/ (providing tools to sustain) and OpenProducer https://www.openproducer.org/ (providing people to help develop, maintain, & sustain projects like Radio Station OpenProducer/community#4 (comment) https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-828246719 and this platform OpenProducer/community#4 (comment) https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-834863193) seem more like hard to grasp concepts, rather than real things that could alleviate Netmix from providing all the resources (funds and people).
If we're clear on needs beforehand (again see OpenProducer/community#4 https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4) we're just nine days out from putting these concepts to the test https://fundoss.org/collective/openproducerplatform
Couple follow-up thoughts to your points above OpenProducer/openproducer-platform#23 (comment) https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/23#issuecomment-850986043
I think keeping this Open Producer platform repo as the combined result of multiple projects does kinda make sense, and creates a good space for discussions. I dont think either myself or Tony Z see ourselves as being able to commit as much regular time to these kind of discussions as you already do, so taking over this repo doesnt quite make sense on that front either.
We'd keep this repo intact ( https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/) but would make it function like a proper, well-defined/organized release... including clear install instructions on the readme and whatnot. I'm not a project manager, but assuming we should create issues for all release ready tasks.
When I'm suggesting Netmix own it or move this or really all related repos under https://github.com/netmix, I'm not implying you and Tony should make any long term commitment to support and maintain OR that Netmix should be the business entity on the hook for sponsoring the following project(s). Once we define our process for crowdfunding features and projects (a top priority task for me this week OpenProducer/community#13 https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/13) we'll start using these collectives to sustain the project independently of Netmix. https://opencollective.com/openproducerplatform https://opencollective.com/radio-station
That said, I am recommending you and Tony come aboard as OpenProducer platform leads and either do whatever is needed create a proper release (including the bundler plugin) or at least provide guidance (probably in the form of well defined feature request(s)) to whoever we may need to complete the task(s). Just having you both (and ideally Netmix as the Github org) front and center will allow me to focus on engage the WordPress community for the FundOSS duration https://fundoss.org/. In addition to making it much more likely that we can raise the necessary funds to cover your time spent on OpenProducer platform. As a dependecy, you also can amplify and direct funds towards https://opencollective.com/radio-station (and the PRO plugin/service if launched in that window).
As contrasted to a bundler/install plugin repo as discussed (assuming Netmix were to take care of that repo - I have yet to discuss with @tonyzeoli https://github.com/tonyzeoli but I'm sure its a possibility under the caveat that it doesnt take away from Radio Station main product development) which could be made and kept separate... If we did do that, I think we'd need to have input on deciding the name so that it would be in line with Netmix goals/branding (even if simply because rebranding later is a pain!)
@majick777 https://github.com/majick777 Again I totally agree - except for maybe, I'm the only one suggesting that all related repos be under the same org. Hopefully I've clarified that this doesn't mean that Netmix invest any additional resources (time or funds) - it's a way to bring additional resources (marketing and funds) towards your current project and business priorities. @tonyzeoli https://github.com/tonyzeoli has access to the repo with the on-topic issue OpenProducer/internal#8 https://github.com/OpenProducer/internal/issues/8 I've only left it private because It's more of Netmix business issue. I'd be happy to transfer that repo or issue over the Netmix Github org.
Let me close out this comment that's on/off taking me a good part of my day to write something clear. Our success in https://fundoss.org/ is dependant on decoupling the OpenProducer platform from the service (transferring platform related repos to Netmix will solve) AND removing any perception of me being the product manager or development lead. Adding you both to the OpenProducer platform (Github repo and collective) would allow me to fully focus on promotion and fundraising - I can do that with confidence knowing that actual WordPress professionals are at the helm. I can't be effective if I'm also the PM or lead dev imposter. We'd all lose out on potentially a nice chunk of funds funneling into our projects beginning in 8 days!
Slightly related, but relevant to me being focused and effective. I'm obviously not a PM or requirements writer guy - I'm not a WordPress (or Drupal developer) - OpenProducer (the service - https://github.com/OpenProducer/community) can be tasked with bringing in people who do these things well. If we can clarify any people needs (again you can both help by reading over and comment on this one issue OpenProducer/community#4 https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4) and incorporating into our FundOSS messaging, I'm confident we'll find the long term contributors all our related projects need. This was my last attempt at identifying common needs based on feedback in that issue OpenProducer/community#4 (comment) https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/4#issuecomment-828256497
On a personal note (but very relevant what I can effectively focus and do in the short term) - I'm currently taking a good bit of upfront time and risk trying to get multiple projects ready for this fundraiser. As the ONLY WordPress participant, OpenProducer could receive a ton of buzz and attention from the WordPress community. I'm ready to fully immerse myself in multiple communities (including WordPress and Open Collective) and see if we can get sites like WP Tavern to amplify. If you check out all the Open Collective related posts they've done in the past (again Open Collective is one of the FundOSS partners) it doesn't seem like a stretch to get our participation featured https://wptavern.com/?s=open+collective
That I can do with you both and Netmix as the visible leads and Github org. I simply don't have the skills, confidence or headspace to do everything alone... that was a fact going into the long weekend. Even moreso now that my father died over Memorial day. Without oversharing, I'll just say myself and my immediate family will come out ok (unfortunately this is not the first time I've lost a parent or sibling) - we won't have to fly cross country to Boston until probably July - it does mean that family issues will be competing for my time/headspace in the short term. I'll be able to balance both if I'm only focusing on the promotion and fundraising.
My dad was a pretty motivated/successful business guy - I wanna kick ass this entire month in his honor!!
— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/23#issuecomment-852582592, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA65WO7GDLWLM7CWKDDAGBDTQVZRHANCNFSM45V64PSQ .
gusaus
commented
3 years ago Thanks @tonyzeoli - I tried to freeform answers to https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/23#issuecomment-852680281 in a Slack DM. Below is another round of followups to your points
First, Radio Station is a plugin only and does not have a related theme. @majick777 has thrown around the idea of having a complementary theme to go with Radio Station at some point in the future. On my side, my intent was to really focus on building an amazing plugin and leaving theming to others. However, having a complimentary theme is probably a good idea - at some point.
Makes total sense... I think we can again look at Newspack as a model (and maybe even use the same Newspack theme as a base for OpenProducer children) https://newspack.pub/support/themes/ ?
@gusaus and I have been talking about the OpenProducer platform being a gateway to having a development side of Netmix. That he would bring in radio stations and we could help them build their station websites on OpenProducer + Radio Station + Azuracast. Not a bad idea and another source of revenue. Gus would do "biz dev" and sell the idea to stations. We would then bring in the project and manage it with my India team and Tony just overseeing some of the technical aspects, but not getting deeply involved in the day to day. These development projects would be priced at $7K to $10k with user experience design being done by my designer for Digital Strategy Works, most of the implementation done by India, with me and my India PM handling the development aspects.
We've kicked around the idea of Netmix providing bespoke and SaaS of OpenProducer https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/17 and potentially stand-alone SaaS for AzuraCast https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/16 and eventually LibreTime. https://github.com/OpenProducer/internal/issues/7 is also related. In addition to me doing biz dev as part of the Netmix team... there are also potential additional team members, partners, and advisors already present in #openproducer...this includes the co-founder of Acquia https://github.com/AzuraCast/AzuraCast/discussions/3994#discussioncomment-725397
Next step I'd suggest... assuming you're deciding to explore what makes good business sense for Netmix, is to centralize all related issues and discussions in the Netmix Github org and Slack. We can use #openproducer to onboard and collaborate with additional team members and partners. Figuring out the business plan and strategy should probably reside in the Netmix house.
That all said, I don't know the ETA for Radio Station PRO...I've been assuming additional services like this would follow. Just being able to announce/amplify any service during FundOSS should grow the customer and contributor base.
But now we are at a point where Gus wants to get funding to develop OpenProducer as a WordPress project from the FundOSS group. Gus is seeking @majick777 and myself to lead the project. Conceptually, I get that and if we can just pitch the project and get funding, then there will be resources to share to build out this idea.
I'm sensing some murkiness on the FundOSS part. Rather than me trying to explain, I'd suggest you both do a quick scan over stuff accessible via the main menu - https://fundoss.org/ https://fundoss.org/blog/faq/ https://fundoss.org/democratic-funding https://fundoss.org/blog/
It's up to the individual participants to engage their communities - FundOSS, Open Collective and Gitcoin are mainly providing the platform and fundraising tools....and yes, they're going to promote and amplify all participants for a two week duration over a pretty massive social media network. All this is something myself and OpenProducer will coordinate on behalf of participating projects. Still working out the details... but just know it's a burning, resolve this week priority https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/13
QUESTION FOR @gusaus: Does the project need to actually be live and usable for FundOSS to fund it, or can it be just the concept outlined and funding helps start the project?
Think I addressed this in my last answer (and links I referenced). It's basically up to participating projects to identify their goals, needs, and how they want to present themselves. In our case I think it's essential we follow through with some of the todos and action items presented here https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/23#issuecomment-852582592
In terms of Newspack, i got an email back from the CEO. He said that we can discuss the integration of Newspack into OpenPRoducer and have it continue to be supported by the Newspack team for a price per install. So, everytime we sell OpenProducer to a radio station, we then pay a license fee to Newpack for upgrades and yearly support most likely at a discounted price. What I'm not sure about is whether Newspack is truly available as an open-source project that we can get updates from. It's supposed to under the GPL I thought, so I don't know why we would pay for a support license other than it's just a good idea to have one and turn to them to support their product. I don't think that's a bad idea, either, if it's per install and we can get the station on a yearly renewal for support that includes that fee.
I think I can help clarify questions/concerns by looking over your current correspondence w/ Newspack CEO (either just forwarding the emails or pasting the convos here or in Slack. We're modeling our bundler plugin after Newspack (right?) which is licensed under GNU General Public License v2 (or later). The dependencies and recommendations (see https://newspack.pub/support/plugins/) all have the same or similar license.
So I don't get the license fee - the codebase here https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform is just a combo of plugins https://newspack.pub/support/plugins/ and it seems to work well on even crappy old Bluehost. Maybe the licensing has more to do if we'd want to build on and extend their WordPress.com service? Maybe we could do that too - but we certainly want this codebase to work on any WordPress hosting.
Ok - I'm talking in circles again - hopefully, we can at least reach a consensus around the business benefits we'd get from adding y'all to the team and moving all related projects, issues, and tasks to Netmix.
Are we sorta on the same page with decoupling and transferring over to to Netmix repo? Would be great if we could fiture that out.
majick777
commented
3 years ago First, Radio Station is a plugin only and does not have a related theme. @majick777 has thrown around the idea of having a complementary theme to go with Radio Station at some point in the future. On my side, my intent was to really focus on building an amazing plugin and leaving theming to others. However, having a complimentary theme is probably a good idea - at some point.
Makes total sense... I think we can again look at Newspack as a model (and maybe even use the same Newspack theme as a base for OpenProducer children) https://newspack.pub/support/themes/ ?
It somewhat hard to say whether these more article-oriented themes would really suit a Radio Station, but seems like they would still work fine until we come up with something else, whether that is another Newspack child theme or not... One concern I would bring up though that we have yet to discuss is te block-based (Gutenberg) editing focus of Newspack, and that Radio Station has yet to support blocks. It still has shortcodes and widets like most plugins, and though these can be used within blocks, it would be better to have dedicated blocks as a controller for these. While we do have an issue for this and have it slated for the Pro version, this could actually be a good candidate for assigning funding to and including in Free instead.
@gusaus and I have been talking about the OpenProducer platform being a gateway to having a development side of Netmix. That he would bring in radio stations and we could help them build their station websites on OpenProducer + Radio Station + Azuracast. Not a bad idea and another source of revenue. Gus would do "biz dev" and sell the idea to stations. We would then bring in the project and manage it with my India team and Tony just overseeing some of the technical aspects, but not getting deeply involved in the day to day. These development projects would be priced at $7K to $10k with user experience design being done by my designer for Digital Strategy Works, most of the implementation done by India, with me and my India PM handling the development aspects.
We've kicked around the idea of Netmix providing bespoke and SaaS of OpenProducer OpenProducer/community#17 and potentially stand-alone SaaS for AzuraCast OpenProducer/community#16 and eventually LibreTime. OpenProducer/internal#7 is also related. In addition to me doing biz dev as part of the Netmix team... there are also potential additional team members, partners, and advisors already present in #openproducer...this includes the co-founder of Acquia AzuraCast/AzuraCast#3994 (comment)
Next step I'd suggest... assuming you're deciding to explore what makes good business sense for Netmix, is to centralize all related issues and discussions in the Netmix Github org and Slack. We can use #openproducer to onboard and collaborate with additional team members and partners. Figuring out the business plan and strategy should probably reside in the Netmix house.
There is certainly potential there to have a SaaS product based on what we come up with for this platform... I feel like if/when that went ahead there would be enough revenue and work there to hire a full time PM/WP Dev with agency experience to handle that side of the business so that it can scale without myself and Tony Z getting too distracted from Netmix's core projects by individual site builds (we both know how easily this can happen!)
That all said, I don't know the ETA for Radio Station PRO...I've been assuming additional services like this would follow. Just being able to announce/amplify any service during FundOSS should grow the customer and contributor base.
We have enough Pro features to launch (not adding more until after launch) and are doing some further beta testing and bugfixing while working on the launch marketing strategy. So if we can incorporate the FundOSS project it would naturally complement those goals. Again so long as we can define some scope of the actual project a little more fine grained. I know the main thrust of a lot of this has been you defining the overall scope for an MVP, but from a project management point of view, I think its important we wrangle out what "fits" in the first phase of development that the funds are to cover.Isn't describing that all we really need to move forward? Because if we have that, the pitch and the marketing of it become clearer.
In terms of Newspack, i got an email back from the CEO. He said that we can discuss the integration of Newspack into OpenPRoducer and have it continue to be supported by the Newspack team for a price per install. So, everytime we sell OpenProducer to a radio station, we then pay a license fee to Newpack for upgrades and yearly support most likely at a discounted price. What I'm not sure about is whether Newspack is truly available as an open-source project that we can get updates from. It's supposed to under the GPL I thought, so I don't know why we would pay for a support license other than it's just a good idea to have one and turn to them to support their product. I don't think that's a bad idea, either, if it's per install and we can get the station on a yearly renewal for support that includes that fee.
I think I can help clarify questions/concerns by looking over your current correspondence w/ Newspack CEO (either just forwarding the emails or pasting the convos here or in Slack. We're modeling our bundler plugin after Newspack (right?) which is licensed under GNU General Public License v2 (or later). The dependencies and recommendations (see https://newspack.pub/support/plugins/) all have the same or similar license. So I don't get the license fee - the codebase here https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform is just a combo of plugins https://newspack.pub/support/plugins/ and it seems to work well on even crappy old Bluehost. Maybe the licensing has more to do if we'd want to build on and extend their WordPress.com service? Maybe we could do that too - but we certainly want this codebase to work on any WordPress hosting.
I think if we have a SaaS (which is basically parallel to how Newspack makes their money, it seems like a niche offshoot to WP VIP) then it would be fair to contribute back to Newspack in terms of a yearly support license - easily covered by part of the monthly costs for the SaaS along with hosting and maintainence and any other license fees (eg. Radio Station Pro etc.) Not that we or the users would be paying for updates as such - since the updates themselves are open source.
Ok - I'm talking in circles again - hopefully, we can at least reach a consensus around the business benefits we'd get from adding y'all to the team and moving all related projects, issues, and tasks to Netmix. Are we sorta on the same page with decoupling and transferring over to to Netmix repo? Would be great if we could figure that out.
Coming full circle to my suggestion again, what I think would realistically work given the short timeframe and availability up to the FundOSS round.
Of course at the end we can add a z"contact us and we can set it all up for you" pitch for the SaaS if/when we are ready to do that... but the main thing is we are still emphasizing that they can do it themselves. It being "our" stack then naturally we are the experts to go to for the SaaS (again, parallel of Newspack strategy.)
gusaus
commented
3 years ago @majick777 I ended up turning your action items from https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/13 into a checklist for this repurposed and reopened Get ready for FundOSS issue. Then I started adding additional action items for 'all' related projects participating (directly or as a dependency or integration) in FundOSS.
Most of what I'm adding are OpenProducer (the service) tasks... hence several issues are linking back to the community repo https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues
I'd like to suggest we transfer 'this' issue to the community repo instead of sending it over to Netmix along with the OpenProducer platform repo. With regards to pre-launch decisions and tasks specific to OpenProducer platform, we should pull out anything in this meta-discussion and roll into new or existing issues.
@tonyzeoli Similar thing for anything related to a Netmix service offering - we should move those tasks and discussions to the appropriate place under the Netmix roof https://github.com/netmix
I'm going to go back and associate issues w/ action items. Most of what we've been talking about here already has an issue. So probably less need to continue the meta discussion here.
gusaus
commented
3 years ago @tonyzeoli @majick777 As new team members you may have missed this recent explainer of FundOSS - https://fundoss.org/blog/how-to-fundoss/
Join us for Chill n Shill on 11th June at 4pm UTC If you're inspired, excited or just curious to find out more join us for our 'Chill n Shill' launch event at 4pm UTC on Friday 11th June where you can find out a little more about FundOSS and hear from participating projects
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for DJ TonyZ to speak about OpenProducer, Radio Station (as a dependency), and maybe even announce some related product launches or service offerings... while spinning some tunes of course.
We can do this!
majick777
commented
3 years ago Funding Aims and Goals
So we have a clearer idea of what will be involved - what are we wanting to "fund" in this FundOSS round and why? I believe that exploring this question will naturally leads to what we can say in further copy/messaging about the project in various places (https://github.com/netmix/openproducer-platform/issues/27)
I've taken this short list of items from the action priority list for "During FundOSS" (@gusaus You may wish to update the list here from https://github.com/orgs/netmix/teams/internal-team/discussions/1 - see my additional note there) but since the main work will be done on these after there is funding to support them, this is really more of a project management sketch on what will be involved, making identifying specific needs and possibilities that could be funded a clearer goal here.
Creating the bundler plugin itself is rather easy to do. The rough sketch of what it would do as mentioned is...
And in order to complete this of course we will need to "review further plugins that would complement/suit the Radio niche." (This doesn't have to be anything big of course, and we would do well to avoid being "too opinionated" on certain fronts where there are many options. Noting that Newspack itself is "intentionally opinionated" and we can review if those opinions align with our own also.) But none of that or the above above needs to take place during FundOSS. In fact it would be expected that time put into creating the bundler/wizard would be funded work.
Integration Task List
Instead, what sticks out to me as important to do "Before" and "During" is point 3, to identify any specific integration tasks we can put funding toward beside the bundling plugin so that we can present these as clear individual funding goals. These are those that have occurred to me, perhaps there are more to add, or perhaps these are sufficient:
So we can say, if we get 5000 in funding we can do feature X, another 5000 we can do feature Y etc. The amounts hopefully we can estimate on a feature by feature basis for the above list (and further breakdown into discovery/development/documentation tasks etc.) So if there are other items to add to this list, we need to identify these ASAP, as we will need to come up with an order of priority for these also...
Marketing Message
The main drive of a funding campaign is to reach those with funds interested in our collective project(s)... Perhaps this is a separate topic but for brevity we need to identify target market and marketing channels ASAP if this is going to be worth the work we are putting in here. But we need the basic project description ala https://github.com/netmix/openproducer-platform/issues/27 to build each of these particular marketing messages around.
What exactly is Open Producer - not to us, but to a newcomer? How would you/do you describe it to someone you meet in the street? I think this question could provide additional message that we want to convey as the product/project that we are funding here... and also in shaping this message to fit the different marketing channels.
Marketing Channels
This is a rough list of marketing channels we can hit up over the next 2 weeks, please feel free to add to it! Again though we need to add any new items ASAP so we can prioritize which to actually do, as time flows on and we may not have time for everything here by any means. (As we know, even writing copy for something simple can take more time than you'd think.)
Given we have 2 weeks to do this, I think the majority of our time spent on this project in that time should be focussed on the marketing so that we gather the funds needed to make things happen. With Radio Station Pro, we are moving from a product development phase to a marketing phase... Similarly here, we need to move to a marketing phase (hopefully in parallel) - the difference being of course that the development phase for these features will come after that.
gusaus
commented
3 years ago @majick777 One again, wonderful, spot on, timely feedback with https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/18#issuecomment-858328607
With the disclaimer, I get the all the communication channels are confusing (something we need to clarify post FundOSS launch), I'd make sure everything you just said above is noted in the Netmix discussion with the same title. Not saying it doesn't belong here (where OpenProducer Platform, AzuraCast, and Kendra.io are all participants in FundOSS), but it's best to centralize OpenProducer Platform's pre-FundOSS discussion in the repo and internal team in the Netmix Github org.
FundOSS pilot round starts in approximately 3.5 hours from the time I'm now writing this!
tonyzeoli
commented
3 years ago Thanks, @majick777 for this detailed breakdown. I'm on board with this overview.
gusaus
commented
3 years ago Closing this issue as we have a similar discussion in the Netmix repo and related issues here - I'll try to make sure all good points here are referenced elsewhere.
tonyzeoli
commented
3 years ago By the way, I add a “Discussion” channel to netmix/OpenProducer-platform, so that’s a better place for these discussion too.
On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 6:14 PM Gus Austin @.***> wrote:
Closing this issue as we have a similar discussion in the Netmix repo and related issues here - I'll try to make sure all good points here are referenced elsewhere.
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FundOSS is now just 7 days away so we need to figure out the most efficient way to prepare. That said, I've decided to rename and reopen this issue since it has evolved into a catch-all discussion on this topic.
Thanks @majick777 for summarizing action items in https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/23#issuecomment-853011229 - perfect source material for a checklist which I reordered and augmented a bit based on what I'd prioritize over the next few hours and days.
Maybe it's best to separate things we should do before, during, and after FundOSS. We can then shift things around or add additional todos based on further discussion in the comments.
Pre FundOSS
Things we should do before FundOSS goes live on June 10
During FundOSS
Things we should/could do during FundOSS (June 10 - June 24)
After FundOSS
Low priority things we could hold off doing until after FundOSS