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OpenProducer / newspack-platform

Newspack is an open-source publishing platform built on WordPress for small to medium sized news organizations. It is an “opinionated” platform that stakes out clear, best-practice positions on technology, design, and business practice for news publishers.
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Scope out an MVP for the Radio and podcast platform #11

Closed gusaus closed 3 years ago

gusaus commented 7 years ago

The purpose of this task is to determine a base set of features and functionality we should include in an offering to small broadcasters, podcasters, and internet stations.

We're also working out a base set of features in this doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UYP6OfxlTn6WqcxycZ2RqGBHMcngBayDVe-ksAGxd5g/edit?usp=sharing

Features

We'll update this summary as the feature list evolves...

Complete

Plugins

Newspack plugins

The following plugins ship with Newspack - as Newspack is a dependency of this platform, all of these plugins are supported by the Newspack team.

Required plugins

The following plugins ship with Newspack - as Newspack is a dependency of this platform, all of these plugins are supported by the Newspack team.

Recommended plugins

Newspack has a list of recommended plugins that have been thoroughly reviewed for features, quality, and code. We will include or recommend any of these as we get a better sense of requirements.

Unsupported plugins

The following plugins are not yet supported or recommended by Newspack. We should work with plugin developers to ensure each is compatible and then see if Newspack can recommend.

Development priorities

The following are not requirements for a MVP. We will support based on needs and available resources.

gusaus commented 6 years ago

@trevortwining Do you have a template or process for completing this task? I wonder if we can use what @zirafa initially put together for Pushtape for inspiration? https://www.drupal.org/node/1398262

Similarly, our own product dev variation of @rickmanelius estimator and project reference guide could be super useful? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SQHyn1Q-thseklq8h8FLriNGXjpFnoqEohwZGggjYcU/edit#gid=0

https://www.drud.com/workflow/the-practicality-of-project-reference-guides/

As we're product developing in the open, we should be as transparent and collabative wherever we can.

I can plug in details once we sort out a process.

gusaus commented 6 years ago

Taking a fresh look at our gitlab repo, it's improved quite a bit since the project stalled. Possibly we 'should' use that for our main repo. Mirror here and drupal.org... however that works.

What do you think? https://gitlab.com/openproducer/openproducer

gusaus commented 4 years ago

@tonyzeoli I added you to this GitHub org and will give you access to the doc referenced in this poorly written description. Please feel free to ask questions, make revisions, or just wipe everything and replace with features/functionality you've already included in your client sites!

The copy and features have some Drupal references http://www.getopenproducer.com/

I 'think' we could probably take out all references to a particular CMS the platform is built on.

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

For DanceGruv, which is going to use LibreTime as it's automation software in place of AirTime, I have set up a system with WordPress that helps the station both broadcast its shows using LibreTime podcasting and set the show archive in WordPress as a post with WordPress plugin, Blubrry PowerPress as the Podcast generator, which provides the feed for people to sub to the podcast either in WordPress or through any podcast aggregator (iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, etc)

In WordPress, we already restrict DJs/Hosts (and now Producers) to only be able to add/edit a show page and add a Post to append to the Show page using the blog and a meta box with the show page assignment tool. So, when someone posts the podcast, the feed pushes the audio content to its show schedule into LibreTime, while leaving it in WordPress as an archive post.

The only issue is publishing the post, but hiding it from the site until after the show airs, so that the archive doesn't appear online BEFORE the show airs. That would defeat the purpose of the live show to begin with.

To do this now, we're using the OnAir2 theme on DanceGruv, which sets up a Podcast "post type" or "CCK" in Drupal. But, we can build a theme which includes Radio Station and PowerPress to enable these functions. So, the radio station would get a pre-built theme with it scheduling software, archive/podcast ability, and push into LibreTime via the podcast feed URL created in Blubrry for each show. Blubrry has taxonomy and post type podcasting - so you use Taxonomy and then create a feed link for each show.

Could you integrate all this into a theme? Sure, but that's a lot of custom programming and truth be told, most stations that already have a theme they are using may not want to change their theme for a vareity of reasons. They may want us to improve upon what they have, but not replace it. Which is the realm of plugins - to enhance and not replace the station's current theme.

In this world, people tie themselves to themes like one would tie themselves to a sports team. There are "Yankee" fans and there are "Red Sox" fans. So, if you came to them with it in mind that they should "change their theme to one we created" they might say absolutely not. And even more so today, because page builders like Divi and Elementor are all the rage. And by giving someone a theme that doesn't have page builder tools, you'd be regressing and not progressing.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

@tonyzeoli Thanks for this comment https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-543871398 Feels like we’ve had this discussion in LibreTime and Twitter and agree on the ‘decouple from theme’ approach.

It’s similar to how we’d build on Drupal.

Speaking of which…. would you be interested/able to PM on OpenProducer projects built on Drupal?

The customer/client-facing features would be pretty much the same - little different machinery under the hood.

As far as developing features and functionality that does not yet exist or needs to be improved… each could be a separate campaign or subproject on the OpenProducer collective https://opencollective.com/openproducer

That should include LibreTime, Radio Station, Open Collective integration, etc.

Would be great to loop @robbt into this discussion since his station uses LibreTime + Drupal. For a Drupal 8 version of OpenProducer, we’d probably want to refactor what inspired the Radio Station plugin https://www.drupal.org/project/station/issues/2608594#comment-10795670

Robbt commented 4 years ago

I'm not sure how much Drupal development I plan on doing in the future. I haven't really gotten into Drupal 8. Time will see but I don't know if there is a future here. Focusing on platform agnostic widgets probably makes the most sense. Most of the station module plumbing could be replaced by LibreTime widgets. I'll have to check out what Tony is working on in Word Press.

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

@robbt https:// wordpress.org/plugins/radio-station

On our roadmap we’re building an API for products like LibreTime to connect and publish show and playlist content into WordPress. We want to help stations automate show info so no one has to login to WordPress if the data is coming from LibreTime. It eliminates duplicate efforts and ensures data accuracy.

Robbt commented 4 years ago

Thanks for the info. From an engineering perspective it might make more sense to build API calls that exposes this information in LibreTime and then there could be a synchronization script that runs and translates between the two APIs. Or even just have the WordPress plugin pull the info from the LibreTime API (which doesn't currently exist). I guess the question is whether there are other automation systems that you are planning on being interoperable with and what their API compatibility is. Thanks for sharing.

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Yes, that’s one way I’ve been thinking about this but knowing that LibreTime doesn’t get an api, we’re kind of stuck in the water.

There are others but this is all new and since I was originally working on getting DanceGruv working with LibreTime podcasting, I was introduced to all of you and thought it made sense to pursue this path given that LibreTime is open source.

And while I have your ear, I’m frustrated by the fact that LibreTime kicks back a Blubrry PowerPress feed and will only validate that feed if I run I run it through Feedburner first. That’s something we don’t want to do for DanceGruv. The feeds validate with iTunes so I don’t know why they won’t in the Podcast section of LibreTime. I prefer not to burn the feeds as that’s an extra step and if feedburner ever goes a way like it was supposed to, we’re back to square one.

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 8:55 AM Robb notifications@github.com wrote:

Thanks for the info. From an engineering perspective it might make more sense to build API calls that exposes this information in LibreTime and then there could be a synchronization script that runs and translates between the two APIs. Or even just have the WordPress plugin pull the info from the LibreTime API (which doesn't currently exist). I guess the question is whether there are other automation systems that you are planning on being interoperable with and what their API compatibility is. Thanks for sharing.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2?email_source=notifications&email_token=AA65WO4HMHLU5AFOGOML6NTQPL7THA5CNFSM4DT3MM2KYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEBXO36I#issuecomment-544140793, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA65WOZCLXNKBAUMO32ID33QPL7THANCNFSM4DT3MM2A .

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Robbt commented 4 years ago

Well LibreTime has an undocumented API, one of the next steps in LibreTime development is to spec out an API. We are actually discussing it in the developers channel of chat.libretime.org - the plan is at some point to create a new API for the next version of LibreTime.

As far as the podcast issue goes I'd suggest a good first step would be to open up an issue on github. I searched for podcast and did not see it, make sure you include a link to a feed that doesn't work and a feedburner version of the same feed. I don't know if anyone will step up and fix your problem but this will at least make it easier for someone to do so. If you already did this send me the link.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

So the high-level goal is to provide stations/users with something they can configure and manage themselves. I'm less familiar with WordPress, but there are already a couple stable, well funded Drupal distributions that can be used as a base for this type of radio station and podcasting platform.

Without going too much into the technical weeds, a major benefit of creating a child distribution is we can collaborate with existing teams and partners to extend 'their' product. If the base distribution/product was on Open Collective, there could be a campaign or subcollective/subproject for our product + any features/functionality not included in the base distribution. For a variety of reasons, at this moment in time Acquia's Lightning may be better suited than Burda Magazine's Thunder as both a base distribution and partner.

Considering Radio Station is based on Drupal Station module, possibly there's an opportunity for Tony to assume the product manager role that Dan was going to take on? The functional requirements are similar https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-544139885 and a variation of what I was riffing on in this crowdfunding idea would provide funds to kick start development for the same partner I was referencing https://github.com/AMTVDigital/soundsandcolorsradio/issues/1

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Here are a couple more examples of radio/podcast services that are extended by their own site builder and/or integration -

We'd like to include similar features in our site builder.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

the plan is at some point to create a new API for the next version of LibreTime

We should include this in the MVP and develop any needed functionality as part of our beta. Probably could start by making sure all features are scoped out in the issue queue? https://github.com/LibreTime/libretime/issues

This comment is related - https://discourse.libretime.org/t/any-interest-in-libretime-available-as-a-saas-with-hosting-and-support/121/23

gusaus commented 4 years ago

@tonyzeoli As (one of many things) mentioned in Slack

Could https://netmix.com/ provide this type of SaaS radio + site builder + custom services offering? https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-544848054

If so, OpenProducer could focus on developing, maintaining and funding the OSS product (and underlying projects). Netmix could be a primary service partner.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

https://www.basswise.com/ is one of the best LibreTime powered sites I’ve come across. I really like how they’re scheduling, distributing and promoting DJ submitted shows. https://www.basswise.com/join

@James built it with Ruby on Rails, deployed using Dokku. The Framework is using Bootstrap 4 for the grid and custom CSS across the site.

Curious what it would take to build something like this on WordPress or Drupal.

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Right now, I'm building out DanceGruv, a DJ culture site in Raleigh, NC. On the dev server, we've got WordPress integrated with Digital Ocean Spaces using a plugin for that specific purpose, so that all uploads go to DO Spaces and not to the server hosting WordPress itself. The site is using Blubrry PowerPress as the feed generator that builds the feed based on Podcasts created in WordPress. The feed is passed to Feedburner, because PowerPress feeds are not being accepted by LibreTime. So, it's burned as a Feedburner feed and then passed into LibreTime Podcasting. The smart block is assigned to a sheduled show which pulls the playist created by the Podcast. We are using the scheduling tool in AirTime WordPress theme and setting some modifications and restrictions on when a DJ can add a file to WordPress and schedule that file as a Show (has to be 60 minutes before air time so LibreTime can check the feed for new shows.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Quick followup on https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-544854222 and related discussions about LibreTime priorities https://github.com/LibreTime/libretime/issues/935#issuecomment-571835302

@paddatrapper @Robbt @tonyzeoli Would it be possible to collaborate on project scope for the LibreTime API? If so, where should we move that part of the discussion?

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Would it be possible to collaborate on project scope for the LibreTime API? If so, where should we move that part of the discussion?

Thanks @tonyzeoli for posting WP requirements https://discourse.libretime.org/t/planning-out-an-api/341/7?u=gusaus

I'd like to include this functionality in the MVP.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Could we integrate MetaBrainz projects for stuff like

Robbt commented 4 years ago

Using MetaBrainz is certainly a good idea, but to do so would require someone to get to know their API etc and see how to access the information and integrate it, and to also identify where it would be useful to connect it etc.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

to do so would require someone to get to know their API etc and see how to access the information and integrate it, and to also identify where it would be useful to connect it etc.

@tonyzeoli Are you integrating MetaBrainz/MusicBrainz into Radio Station plugin and/or any of the WordPress/LibreTime sites?

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Not at this time, but it might make sense to do so to match data with music played. It could be a useful feature, but it's not on our roadmap. It would really be a playlist function pulling data from that service into the playlist and using it in some way. We're not going to "feature" artists. Just have playlists and maybe picking the songs from the MuiscBrainz instead of typing them in creates some value add experience for radio stations.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Curious what it would take to build something like this on WordPress

In addition to the website builder, Radio.co provides some great examples for functionality we might want to build into LibreTime.

Robbt commented 4 years ago

So a MVP is by definition the minimum viable product, what would make sense is to figure out the least amount required to make something useful for radio stations vs. the laundry list of potential features etc that we have been putting together. What is the bare minimum to have something that would be useful for stations. All of these features are great but they would require a substantial amount of developer time and if the goal is to have something that is useful for stations we should figure out what is the most essential. It's possible the wordpress station plugin & libretime together with some basic documentation might be sufficient for a lot of people. The challenge with Drupal is that the station module (which the station plugin is inspired by) has not been updated for a long time and is unlikely to be doing anything. If we had a functional core then it would make sense for my station to switch to using it from what we have now. It also would make sense to figure out why the podcasts aren't processed correctly by LibreTime but someone could open an issue on the LibreTime git for that.

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

We’re burning the feeds in feedburner and passing that URL into LibreTime, so it’s processing correctly based on what’s coming out of Feedburner. The issue is the feed URLs coming out of Blubrry PowePress.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:37 AM Robb notifications@github.com wrote:

So a MVP is by definition the minimum viable product, what would make sense is to figure out the least amount required to make something useful for radio stations vs. the laundry list of potential features etc that we have been putting together. What is the bare minimum to have something that would be useful for stations. All of these features are great but they would require a substantial amount of developer time and if the goal is to have something that is useful for stations we should figure out what is the most essential. It's possible the wordpress station plugin & libretime together with some basic documentation might be sufficient for a lot of people. The challenge with Drupal is that the station module (which the station plugin is inspired by) has not been updated for a long time and is unlikely to be doing anything. If we had a functional core then it would make sense for my station to switch to using it from what we have now. It also would make sense to figure out why the podcasts aren't processed correctly by LibreTime but someone could open an issue on the LibreTime git for that.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2?email_source=notifications&email_token=AA65WO7ONRNEABFYTNK2MITQ6MO23A5CNFSM4DT3MM2KYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEJJ24HQ#issuecomment-575909406, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA65WO7AGW5YEDFV6XO4T4LQ6MO23ANCNFSM4DT3MM2A .

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gusaus commented 4 years ago

MVP is by definition the minimum viable product, what would make sense is to figure out the least amount required to make something useful for radio stations vs. the laundry list of potential features etc that we have been putting together.

Agreed - the radio.co features referenced in https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-575824770 would most likely be future functionality built into LibreTime. For 'this' MVP, it would great to include LibreTime 3.0 + API https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-544854222.

The challenge with Drupal is that the station module (which the station plugin is inspired by) has not been updated for a long time and is unlikely to be doing anything. If we had a functional core then it would make sense for my station to switch to using it from what we have now.

As mentioned in https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-544203268, we could pick up on the previous plan to crowdfund if stations like yours could allocate some resources (funds and/or development time) towards the development of a functional MVP. We've also been talking to NFCB about providing sites and services to their member stations (https://nfcb.org/map/).

Having an experienced PM to define this is key. Since @tonyzeoli has already defined the MVP for WordPress, would it be possible to do the same for Drupal? Could Netmix be the service provider for WordPress and Drupal powered sites? https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-557756879 Could Netmix be the company behind the MVP we're defining in this task? https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issue-244538415

Would be great if we could clarify our goals/needs for an MVP and unify around a plan to market to stations.

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Gus,

It is in my plan to provide WordPress web development services to radio stations as part of the offering of products and services under the Netmix brand. My first focus is to develop Netmix Radio Station into a freemium plugin with a free and PRO tier. We are working on that now. But, we have a skilled team of developers and UX designers that can take on the necessary design, configuration, and development of websites for stations that need that service. I have yet to include web development services on the Netmix website, but I operate Digital Strategy Works as well, which is my WordPress consulting company that provides these services to small businesses. However, having that be a focus on Netmix on our site would be to Netmix's obvious advantage. That begets the question - should Netmix build a generalized theme for radio station that syncs with our plugin that we can offer as an all in one solution. But, I didn't want to get into theming, because Radio Station is a plugin that allows a station to be theme agnostic - they can use any theme they want. Lastly, with WordPress adopting blocks, we are starting to see themes that only use WordPress block or 3rd party blocks and ignore page builders, because blocks are the root of page builders anyway. So, a theme coming out of Radio Station that stations could adopt would be cool, but there's the issue of current themes and page builders in use already by these stations.

In my mind, I would love to access the API for LibreTime, so that stations can push schedules out of LibreTime and into WordPress Radio Station and/or sync between the two systems. That way, anyone who uses LibreTime will not have to manage two schedules, two sets of hosts/DJs, two sets of playlists, and some weird archives system where archives are only in WordPress but not in LibreTime or vice versa. Once this happens, it incentivizes radio station to choose LibreTime over other software-as a-service operators in the radio station automation space, becaue there is a fundamental connection with WordPress will be an attractive add-on ability to solve a problem that exists in the market today. I don't know that any radio station automation software publishes out to WordPress, Drupal, or any other open-source CMS, so it's a very attractive option and that's my immediate focus. Once this API happens, then we are going to create the add-on to plugin LibreTime into WordPress. That's our first order of business, so to speak.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

@tonyzeoli

I have yet to include web development services on the Netmix website, but I operate Digital Strategy Works

Sounds like Netmix and/or Digital Strategy Works could be OpenProducer's primary service provider/partner for this vertical. https://github.com/OpenProducer/administration/issues/3

Could Netmix be the company behind the MVP we're defining in this task https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issue-244538415? Could Netmix provide a SaaS offering?

If yes, what do you think about running with this type of plan? https://github.com/OpenProducer/administration/issues/5

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Could Netmix be the company behind the MVP we're defining in this task #2 (comment)? Could Netmix provide a SaaS offering?

https://discourse.libretime.org/t/libretime-services-and-other-ways-to-sustain-the-project/326/10?u=gusaus

Main decision here is whether or not LibreTime core team is interested or has the capacity to provide client-facing services. Similar to a LibreTime SaaS offering, this might be something core team members could collaborate on through a partner.

Could Netmix provide LibreTime services?

gusaus commented 4 years ago

If we had a functional core then it would make sense for my station to switch to using it from what we have now.

@Robbt What if the MVP was powered by WordPress. Would migrating http://wcrsfm.org/ be an option?

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Further followup to @Robbt's comment https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-575909406

What is the bare minimum to have something that would be useful for stations. All of these features are great but they would require a substantial amount of developer time and if the goal is to have something that is useful for stations we should figure out what is the most essential. It's possible the wordpress station plugin & libretime together with some basic documentation might be sufficient for a lot of people.

And some Slack discussion with @tonyzeoli

Theming is not a problem. We design and build on Divi, Elementor, Pro, Avada Fusion. It's the Radio Station stuff that they need from the plugin to run the website. You can see Radio Station working on https://www.ashevillefm.org/, just for a quick look at who's using it. We're releasing 2.3.0 next week, I think. Take a look at the 2.3.0 demo on https://radiostationdemo.com

After testing Radio Station plugin on WordPress (which I hadn't used in awhile), it certainly seems (to me at least) like WP already provides something that would be useful for stations. Has anyone done a feature comparison? If WP does provide a better solution out of the box, how complicated/time consuming would it be for stations stuck on Drupal 6 to migrate?

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Here's a good description of a Drupal distribution (the project type for a Drupal MVP) https://dri.es/distributions-remain-a-growing-opportunity-for-drupal

A Drupal distribution packages a set of contributed and custom modules together with Drupal core to optimize Drupal for a specific use case or industry. For example, Open Social is a free Drupal distribution for creating private social networks. Open Social was developed by GoalGorilla, a digital agency from the Netherlands. The United Nations is currently migrating many of their own social platforms to Open Social.

Is there a WordPress equivalent to this type of configuration and project type?

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

BuddyPress or Peepso

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Thanks for those examples -

Reminded me of another custom setup currently under development.

Considering many community/public radio stations have similar goals and needs, I'm wondering if there's an opportunity to use and/or contribute to similar features? The beta process we've been proposing https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-577343638 is actually similar to what they're doing. https://newspack.blog/newspack-faq/

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Little bit more on Newspack from their FAQ https://newspack.blog/newspack-faq/

Plugin

Newspack will be a plugin that selects, streamlines and simplifies the use of other plugins best suited to newsroom needs. It’s the maestro that will arrange and conduct an orchestra of plugins. And it eliminates most of publishers’ technology headaches and overhead.

Out of the box, Newspack should provide the following:

Included with Newspack are plugins for -

Theme

The Newspack theme will be based on the latest Gutenberg-era WordPress thinking, in line with the vision laid out here: one theme, many styles, blocks and templates. Newspack will not be about offering an unnecessary variety of themes. It will zero in on the precise visual needs of a newsroom, but still let publishers customize their site with a distinct look and layout.

As a new product in the post-Gutenberg-launch era, Newspack has the luxury to be a textbook application of Gutenberg concepts without significant backwards compatibility concerns. We hope to implement a modern hierarchy of blocks/themes/styles/templates, leveraging some of the most exciting work in the WordPress community, which will only grow more refined and powerful over time.

Could Newspack be a base for our MVP?

The plugin options for publishers are as follows -

  1. The most common and critical will be loaded by default when publishers create up or migrate their sites.
  2. Others will be offered to publishers during setup, depending on their preferences, such as whether they need advertising management tools.
  3. Other vetted and approved options will be listed in a directory.

Most online publishers incorporate media (photo galleries, videos, audio, etc.) so I'm assuming Newspack would include. Radio station plugin https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-544139885 may be able to provide the additional features public or community radio stations need. Offered during setup or a vetted and approved options.

I believe there's an opportunity to work with project owners and funders to include Radio station plugin and collaborate as a partner. https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/11

Thoughts?

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Sorry, you have to be a selected publisher to get into the Newspack program.

I would think Radio Station could be the Newspack of Radio, Internet Broadcasting, and Podcasting. That's where I intend to take this.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

From their FAQ https://newspack.blog/newspack-faq/

Newspack is still being developed and we plan a first-version release in March 2020, though an early version of the plugin is available now on our GitHub repo. As an open-source project, Newspack is also available to be downloaded and installed everywhere under the GPL v2.

I would think Radio Station could be the Newspack of Radio, Internet Broadcasting, and Podcasting. That's where I intend to take this.

I agree! Wouldn't it make sense to leverage a plugin, theme, and funded development team if it's providing what stations need?

Might be worth testing and hitting their issue queue - https://github.com/Automattic/newspack-plugin/issues https://github.com/Automattic/newspack-theme/issues

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Yes, Radio Station IS A PLUGIN.

Once we get to the PRO version, we'll think about a theme to wrap around the plugin. But inherently, you can use any theme you want with Radio Station. A plugin with the features of Radio Station should make it theme agnostic. However, to extend the brand and build a community, yes, I can see us building a theme in the future that is far simpler than OnAir2 theme and caters to broadcasters. But, you keep thinking that should be an aspect to this, when the reality is, you can use any theme. A theme is just a theme. A plugin does all the heavy lifting of extending the opportunity to do more.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

I understand Radio Station and Newspack are both plugins. The latter is actually a bunch of plugins + base theme.

Could Newspack be a base for our MVP?

The plugin options for publishers are as follows -

  1. The most common and critical will be loaded by default when publishers create up or migrate their sites.
  2. Others will be offered to publishers during setup, depending on their preferences, such as whether they need advertising management tools.
  3. Other vetted and approved options will be listed in a directory.

It still won't be stable enough to use for another month, but if you look over all the functionality Newspack will provide https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-584957211, you're pretty close to a complete solution if Radio Station is plugged in.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

I updated the features and related issues based on what Newspack provides out of the box. https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issue-244538415

As far as I can tell, https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/9 is the only functionality Newspack does 'not' include. This would be provided by Radio Station plugin.

Other than that, security updates, new functionality, themes (there are several subthemes already included https://github.com/Automattic/newspack-theme), would be self-contained in the Newspack and sustained by their development team and partners.

It would be great if everyone else could test and tell me what I'm missing. The instructions https://github.com/Automattic/newspack-plugin#how-to-install-newspack-on-your-site + https://github.com/Automattic/newspack-plugin/issues/312#issuecomment-557605909 before stepping through the setup wizard + demo content (you'll see that option during setup) should provide a base setup like this to test. https://live-newspack.pantheonsite.io/

Wouldn't it make sense to use Newspack as a base?

What else do stations need that isn't on the feature list?

gusaus commented 4 years ago

With their 1.0 release, Newspack includes most of the features listed in the summary https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issue-244538415

What other features/functionality do stations and podcasters need?

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

I disagree. I've been looking at the Newspack FAQ and I now better understand all this and what is offered. Newspack is offering specific, free WordPress themes that are already available in the theme library on WordPress.org. The thing about this initiative is that it's really a private initiative from Google and WordPress to support news organizations that need to generate revenue and providing.a suite of services for a few on WordPress VIP. There are many plugins they recommend that are not included in Newspack.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

The feature list in the description needs an update, but all the issues here labeled with Newspack exist upon installation and can be easily accessed and configured via a Dashboard - Dashboard ‹ Newspack — WordPress 2020-03-04 16-47-25

Newspack is offering specific, free WordPress themes that are already available in the theme library on WordPress.org.

As noted in https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-584957211 they provide a theme + plugin that extends two other dependencies. It's all easily installed and configurable via their setup wizard and dashboard.

The thing about this initiative is that it's really a private initiative from Google and WordPress to support news organizations that need to generate revenue and providing a suite of services for a few on WordPress VIP.

Not sure that's an accurate interpretation when all the code is freely available and licensed under GNU General Public License v2 and they provide instructions on how to self host https://github.com/Automattic/newspack-plugin#how-to-install-newspack-on-your-site

tonyzeoli commented 4 years ago

Yes, sure you can do it yourself, but to connect to WordAds, you must be a WordPress.com publisher. You cannot earn revenue from WordAds if you're not hosting on WordPress.com, or at least I don't think you can.

The benefit to being a Newspack publisher is that you're invited to the party. You can use the themes provided with Newspack and some of the functionality, but at the end of the day, being part of their network is what they're looking for.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Yes, sure you can do it yourself, but to connect to WordAds, you must be a WordPress.com publisher. You cannot earn revenue from WordAds if you're not hosting on WordPress.com, or at least I don't think you can.

Good example of functionality included with Newspack but had not yet been documented https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/6#issuecomment-595131889. We do have some extendable options for radio stations and podcasters participating in a beta. https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/11

gusaus commented 4 years ago

@tonyzeoli https://newspack.blog/support/plugins/ should provide some context/clarity to what we've discussing. Most (all?) of the recommended plugins can be downloaded and installed via the Setup wizard and/or Dashboard (see https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/2#issuecomment-594980098).

With Newspack launching their service this month, you'd expect functionality for events https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer/issues/17 and even audio/podcast to be included or recommended since many publishers have these needs.

Packaging everything together so a station or podcaster can DIY will require more research and discussion.

For a service provider (most publishers or radio stations still need some type of support), most of the ingredients are ready to mix. If we can get Radio Station plug-in to a point where it works well with Netmix, then possibly they could recommend or include down the line.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

Not sure I'm adhering to proper git flow... or how a WordPress codebase is usually released, but https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/tree/master is an upstream of what we're developing and testing on Pantheon.

We need a proper development and release flow (do we have a PM who can take the lead?), but https://live-openproducer-platform.pantheonsite.io/ is basically Newspack with demo content enabled.

There are a few plugins that are not included or supported by Newspack (see the wiki for what's included). We should work with plugin developers to ensure each is compatible and then see if Newspack can recommend.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

With the release of Radio Station 2.3, our main need for this MVP is to ensure it works with Newspack upon enabling. OpenProducer/newspack-platform#6

Once we solidify process/pricing/service levels for a paid beta https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/11, we 'should' be able direct resources (development and funds) towards features that still need work + integrations such as LibreTime and AzuraCast.

Just between users of Radio Station, LibreTime and AzuraCast, there should be a lot of good candidates for a paid beta and/or related services.

gusaus commented 4 years ago

I added Radio Station OpenProducer/newspack-platform#6 and The Events Calander OpenProducer/newspack-platform#15 plugins to https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/tree/master after getting them to work with Newspack.

The platform isn't DIY ready, but we have all the source material in the repo to build sites for stations/podcasters/publishers as part of a paid beta, hackathon, or as part of a service.

Newspack again has provided inspiration for the latter https://github.com/OpenProducer/openproducer-platform/issues/11#issuecomment-614960582

gusaus commented 4 years ago

We have feature requests for AzuraCast OpenProducer/newspack-platform#8 and LibreTime integration OpenProducer/newspack-platform#9 into Radio Station plugin.

While the former is more advanced since there's already an API, the combo of LibreTime & Radio Station plugin would better serve the needs of stations with multiple DJs and shows.

We could fine-tune requirements by building solutions for users of each. https://github.com/OpenProducer/community/issues/11