let's all add proposals for the assets

[BielBdeLuna]

I propose:

• all "qer" textures (the textures for the map editor) doesn't need to be distributed I propose to create a "qer" folder outside of the texture folders where all the "qer" textures go, so when distributing the game/mod the developer can erase all those textures from the distributed content easily,
• let's not forget that the engine can tint a gray texture to achieve several coloured variations of the same texture, I distributed a set of "dev" textures with several coloured textures that could be achieved with a single gray texture and tinting via material tokens.
• in the light folder, let's separate the fog textures / falloff textures / projected textures in their respective folder, so it's not a mess
• let's try to achieve parity with names of textures with all the necessary textures following the same name convention
• let's create a base light shader that has the most added effects (the parameters dependant effects) so we can have the most complex light effects capability as a starting point)

[BielBdeLuna]

I would vote for an approximation first with some kind of heigh-map, and no LOD system, and then we could keep improving on it.

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna I already have heightmap data ready wiithin the terrain, it is generated through Blenders Geometry node. I can render a 8192x8192 heightmap and export it to Targa RAW for you if you would like. How will we add foliage within radiant?

[BielBdeLuna]

no, I think we are not in that stage yet

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna No problem, let me know when the time comes, it gives me some time to finish the terrain file.

[ghost]

The map i'm making is almost done including the assets, just need to finish unwrapping the UV's and the textures, the map consists of the following rooms for testing features:

Material Room Weapons Room Particle Room NPC/AI Room Gravity Room Physics Room Audio Room Multiplayer Room Spawn Area

I've made some sounds for the map as well. Still need to finish the weapons and player rigging as well as the animations. I've left out the terrain area for now, but have included to doors leading out to the space.

[kortemik]

@Yetta1 are you using our base/ from cegui_assets branch for creating those? Would be cool if you did so it wont have any other assets than free ones

[ghost]

@kortemik No, I haven't downloaded from cegui_assets. All assets i'm making is from scratch and of my own designs, i'm releasing it free for the OTE project.

[kortemik]

@Yetta1 you can use them as in addition, they are free too, in case you need.

Awesome progress you are making, thank you!!

[ghost]

@kortemik Will use it, I seem to have overlooked it as I was working from the RBDoom3bfg branch and haven't moved to the OTE branch folders. I'm just concerned about collision and physics as most of my map is made up of static meshes with cut areas in parts of the meshes unseen by the player.

I'm thinking of creating a ArchVis map later on to showcase architectural rendering through OTE, only problem is measurements as I haven't seen support in Radiant for scaling metric/imperial scaled models, I use metric.

[ghost]

@kortemik downloading the updated base package.

[kortemik]

Radiant uses only Doom Units without any snap kind of snapping elements to each other, can't really say I like it.

My idea is that when we have CEGUI at decent level working, we should migrate from Radiant to in-game editor, because radiant is not supported well, uses old renderer, is not nice to use and more over doesn't give the same feeling as in-game one does. I just didn't state this previously because it's not atm in the scope of the release number one

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Yetta1 notifications@github.com wrote:

@kortemik https://github.com/kortemik downloading the updated base package.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenTechEngine/OpenTechBFG/issues/17#issuecomment-118621940 .

[ghost]

@kortemik Didn't know there was an in-game editor, any way to start using it or is it in development? I'm merging the assets with mine. test.map seems to have issues with draw distance in the viewport on Dark Radiant, demo.map works fine.

[kortemik]

There is not yet, it's only there as an IDEA, but I see no reason why not to create one.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 11:16 PM, Yetta1 notifications@github.com wrote:

@kortemik https://github.com/kortemik Didn't know there was an in-game editor, any way to start using it or is it in development? I'm merging the assets with mine. test.map seems to have issues with draw distance in the viewport on Dark Radiant, demo.map works fine.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenTechEngine/OpenTechBFG/issues/17#issuecomment-118624172 .

[ghost]

It will be a great addition, especially with multiplayer based editing for teams.

I've created consoles in my maps rooms to call the particles, models, audio, NPC's etc in order to cycles through the content and test it, i'll leave it to you guys to code the functionality. The gravity room is there for testing things like rigidbodies, softbodies, particles, weapons in zero gravity as well as wall/ceiling walking.

[ghost]

I ran into some problems with the models due to my failure in setting up a proper grid system ( thank you Kortemik for the mention ) in Blender to match with Radiant, luckily I found the Katsbits tutorial, so I'm rescaling all the models to fit on Radiants grid system.

I'm thinking of using OTE for my indie game to showcase the engine as well, however I understand that there are still many things to do for the engine, so I might have to stick to Unity 5 for now and maybe release the sequel on OTE.

[BielBdeLuna]

the model exporter has a scale value which helps you to re-scale the model at export time, you might not need to redo your work

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna I know, but I'm modelling the map in Blender as well, which I'm exporting to the .map format, the snapping from the previous attempt seemed off. I had to export the model to Blender 2.49 as 2.7+ doesn't seem to have a working .map exporter anymore. I'm using a Quake 3 map to D3 map convertor as well.

[BielBdeLuna]

why are you modelling the map in Blender? why not using Darkradiant?

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna Texturing and baking reasons, it's easier for me to work with UV's and create not repetitive textures using multiple layers before the bakes, only a small amount of the level is done using the BSP brushes. For example mimicking a plastered wall with paint, having the imperfections of the plaster scrapes and the paint brush strokes without having it repeat on another surface. Some of the textures are aided by procedural textures/masks in Blender to break up the repeats, it also bakes out to the normals. It just adds a level of realism.

[BielBdeLuna]

but then how would you do this texturing work in OTE? you will bake this texturing work in single big textures?

Also keep in mind that most of the UV work will have to conform to IdTech3 and IdtechX UV standards.

I guess, in the future, we could work on a megatexture for everything (like rage) tech (in a long future, because it would need a lot of work) and in the nearer future we could work out a Blender to IdTechX exporter (allowing for a greater UV control in the process) specially with RobertBeckebans new map standard.

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna I'm baking with UV layers onto a large atlas, some UV's contain only normal map data, while others has dirt/oil data. The final bake is to a large texture atlas on one UV, some texture blending will be done through the shader script for the dirt/oil.

Rage was a beautiful game, the only things which upset me was the weird black spotty noise texture from the megatextures when looking at a surface up close, not sure if it was some sort of detail map or ambient occlusion map. The texture pop-ins was also a bit frustrating, but I fixed that by editing the games config files to better match my system, the pop-ins only appeared for the first few seconds when a area was loaded.

I'm designing the level in this way to see how it would look with this technique to create realistic looking visuals that would look good even on a low spec system as I'm taking into consideration that many people out there still have low end hardware especially in countries like mine where people struggle and can't really afford the latest and greatest.

I just bought "The evil within" as I read it was made on IdTech 5 and was impressed with the visual astetics of the games environment I saw on a youtube vid. Didn't really see if there was mega textures used. I'll let you know what I see on the game.

[BielBdeLuna]

but we won't be able to see this level in-game, we currently don't have any atlas system for textures, and if you add also the normal maps and other maps in there it gets even worse, we don't have a way to mix parts of an atlas texture with other parts

[Wintch]

Also keep in mind that this theoretically increases light count. Can't find the link right now, but i'm sure that when the engine splits your model, you always end up with more polygons than if you were making the map with editor brushes. Another thing to notice is the texture compression, i am currently using this table: 1024>2.0 - 0.5 - 1.0 512>1.0 - 0.25 - 0.5 And so on. This means that for 1024px textures i am reducing the size in the editor at 2.0 for roof (far from player), 0.5 for walls (you can get close), and 1.0 for floor (it is close, but not too much). For other resolutions is just twice or half to maintain uniform texture quality. This will not be possible with UV wrapped maps as you are always getting the same resolution. Compressing with DDS is one way, but normal maps are still there as uncompressed TGA

[BielBdeLuna]

the engine doesn't split the models, the engine importer (dmap) splits the brushes, but this is actually good, splits the brushes but respects the UV mapping (unless there is some error, but then it is a bug)

so technically if his UV mapping is accepted it should be kept, but then again, it depends on what can be exported to quake 3 (which is quake3 UV system) which in terms is the same Quake1's (albeit the map description changed in between Quake3 and Doom3, the UV system is the same expressed differently) it all depends on brushes (which are the expression of infinite surfaces that intersect in-between them forming a cuboid) the UVmapping is related to those surfaces taking a point in 3D space (usually the centre of the world) as a point (0, 0, 0) and from there the texture is moved, rotated and scaled as needed.

As you see this system is quite archaic, as in doesn't deal in UV points individually which means it can do a pretty restrictive UV work. most of the UV work is not done in the UV per se but on the actual surfaces via nurb surfaces, which speaks volumes on the texturing control of the engine. remember all the blood stains in Doom3 made and distorted via nurbs surfaces? IdTech5 made away with all of this (it might had it's troubles, but it allowed a world filled with stuff) if we could have both we could have IdTechX's simpleness of texturing as well as the richness of IdTech5 surfaces,

even we could have a mix of the two, and have the mapper implement the textures as in Darkraidant with an ease due the simple system, and then have a "world dresser" whose position would be to fill the world with stamped textures, adding dirtiness, and other effects, attaining a unique texture per surface.

[ghost]

I understand what you guys mean. The major problem I have with the method I'm using is that surface materials can't be changed in different regions as everything end up being seen as one material, which means that the texture region has to be changed manually again in Blender and rebaked.

I'm going to recreate the mesh based map in Dark radiant using the bsp brushes and use the traditional texturing method so that there is at least a compatible working map to test with, i'll keep the mesh based map as a seperate map for experimentation. Both versions can also serve as a before and after to compare the differences.

Is it possible to blend multiple normal/dirt/spec maps with masks through the material scripts? For example have several normal maps to create various stroke, paint droplets, streaks and plaster decay alongside diffuse, spec, oil/dirt.

[DanielGibson]

@Yetta1: regarding MD5 export in newer Blender versions, which plugin did you try?

I think http://www.katsbits.com/smforum/index.php?topic=404.0 is the most recent

[ghost]

@DanielGibson I got the addons from katsbits, the 2.63+ versions written by Ali Scissons, Bob Holcomb and Thomas "der_ton" Hutter, version 0.1.0. I'm going to try the addons from the forum link you have provided.

The error I received in Blenders console trying to import player.md5 gives this message after hundreds of "Eeek!" errors related to vertex info and armature bone names:

Traceback (most rcent call last): File "C:\Users...............\scripts\addons\io_import_md5.py", line 455, in execute load_md5(self.filepath) File "C:\Users...............\scripts\addons\io_import_md5.py", line 350, in load_md5 blender_mesh.faces.add(len(mesh.tris)) AttributeError: 'Mesh' object has no attribute 'faces'

location: :-1

[ghost]

@DanielGibson The addons by nemyax as provided in the forum post works perfectly in Blender 2.75 Daily build July 9th. Thank you Daniel, this has really helped me a lot and saved me a lot of time.

[DanielGibson]

Awesome!

[ghost]

@DanielGibson Ok it seems to fail to import some Doom 3 models, but not all. This isn't a issue as I was just testing, it should work with the new assets.

[ghost]

@DanielGibson Off topic, since you have the linux penguin in your profile pic. Which Linux distro would you recommend for a low spec netbook. I've got xubuntu currently installed on it, but it has horrible performance. I was thinking of going with Arch or maybe trying Crunchbang.

[ghost]

Tried importing the mesh based level from Blender in Quake 3 map format, gave a parsing error, unknown primitive type. Not an issue, was a test, map is being redone in DarkRadiant.

[DanielGibson]

Linux Distro for Netbook? I would have suggested Xubuntu oder Linux Mint XFCE, but if that already is too slow I don't know really. Chrunchbang (or https://crunchbangplusplus.org/) looks like it's worth a try.

[ghost]

@DanielGibson Lol I did end up downloading crunchbangplusplus after I read that development stopped on Crunchbang for Bunsen lab. It's an old netbook, can't even set the graphics card above 8mb in the bios. If the distro is too slow, then i'll go with Arch linux and build an extremely minimal system from it, possibly terminal based. Constant power cuts in my country ruined my one SSD, wanted to use it on the netbook for a little boost. Power cuts every day for the next three years, started last year.

[kortemik]

http://loadshedding.eskom.co.za/loadshedding/description

Really strange country you have got. Even a mid-sized ups is not enough for 4 hours On Jul 11, 2015 7:51 AM, "Yetta1" notifications@github.com wrote:

@DanielGibson https://github.com/DanielGibson Lol I did end up downloading crunchbangplusplus after I read that development stopped on Crunchbang for Bunsen lab. It's an old netbook, can't even set the graphics card above 8mb in the bios. If the distro is too slow, then i'll go with Arch linux and build an extremely minimal system from it, possibly terminal based. Constant power cuts in my country ruined my one SSD, wanted to use it on the netbook for a little boost. Power cuts every day for the next three years, started last year.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenTechEngine/OpenTechBFG/issues/17#issuecomment-120545844 .

[ghost]

@kortemik There was warnings about the loadshedding back in the 90's, instead our current president spent money on a corrupt arms deal for weapons not even in use. The country relies mainly on one nucleur station which had little maintenance done over the years. The country also provides energy freely to neighbouring countries such as Zimbabwe. Corruption, crime and poverty just seems to grow. I hope to leave one day for my own sanity, the days of being safe outside are long gone. The irony is that many older generation Africans I speak too wish they lived back under the Apartheid regime, they at least had jobs and food back then, now it's more like a twisted Apartheid with high murder rates.

[ghost]

Sorry guys, had a few beers the other day before posting my last post. I'll refrain from posting about things unrelated to this site.

I'm trying to build both the master and cegui_assets branches. Both fail giving a message E:/../../../libs/cegui/CEGUI.git/CMakeLists.txt

does not contain a CMakeLists.txt file.

It also gave an error related to feature_tests.cxx

It does say in the output log that build succeeded with 0 warnings and errors

[kortemik]

You need to do "git submodule init" and "git submodule update" first.

I think we need to create some docs about how to compile it because i have explained this already to everyone trying it out

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Yetta1 notifications@github.com wrote:

Sorry guys, had a few beers the other day before posting my last post. I'll refrain from posting about things unrelated to this site.

I'm trying to build both the master and cegui_assets branches. Both fail giving a message E:/../../../libs/cegui/CEGUI.git/CMakeLists.txt

does not contain a CMakeLists.txt file.

It also gave an error related to feature_tests.cxx

It does say in the output log that build succeeded with 0 warnings and errors

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpenTechEngine/OpenTechBFG/issues/17#issuecomment-120829884 .

[ghost]

@kortemik Documentation would help a lot. Not sure what you meant with "git submodule init", "git submodule update". Still getting use to github.

Busy adding visportals and baking out some normal maps for textures on the level, still need to finish writing the material and model scripts. baked an environment sky cube from a public domain HDR file if that's ok.

Bit off topic, was listening to music on youtube and saw this video. Would make a cool shader if someone could replicate the effect, some kind of retro 80's scanline effect with motion blur and glitches. Going to see if I can fake it through blender. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G22X5X49VhM&index=5&list=PLW17mvEZY9fKHg-jxW1f-bl6LBg_8Vd0M

[ghost]

@kortemik Nevermind figured out what you meant, wasn't using github app, was working from zip, got the app now.

Powershell: "Unable to find current revision in submodule path 'libs/cegui/CEGUI.git'"

Build worked

Copied DLL files and EXE to BFG folder. 32-bit build crashes with a visual C++ runtime library error :

R6010 abort() has been called

64-bit build crashes without any error.

[BielBdeLuna]

@Yetta1 what effect? there are many effect in that video, which one?

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna The parts with the woman dancing. Reminds me of the sobel filters.

EDIT: Just got a similar effect in th BGE using a Sobel filter with motion blurs.

[BielBdeLuna]

seems like white particles from the moving parts (those parts that do change form the last frame create particles, and the more they change the more particles create, and then over the white particles there are a set of lines fotocomposited (multipliying) so you get the old TV lines effect

this or motion blur excluded from the original frames and composited that way.

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna I guess the particles would have some sort of delay in its death rate to create the longer streaks. Would be cool to see a game in retro graphics like, some kind of Tron like game. I don't know how to code GLSL, but it seems possible.

I just created a nice little fake Sub surface scattering effect in the BGE using the material nodes with some color ramps, light data and vertex paint, it also gives a nice fresnel highlight around the model. Still need to tweak the light data to only affect the vertex painted parts for the thinner organice parts. Working on shaders noders to simulate fake PBS in the BGE for a small game I'm making.

Having issues creating visportals on the map in DarkRadiant, taking a break until someone on the the Darkmod forum can help me, issue still remains on the DarkRadiant 2.0.3 pre-build as well. Keeps deleting the brush when I apply the visportal texture or press the make visportal button. Otherwise i'll have to open the map on DoomEdit and add in the visportals there. Getting addicted to Quake Live now.

[BielBdeLuna]

it seems it not deleted but hidden, have you checked out that you don't have the visportals filtered out? check out the filter menu if you don't know what I'm talking about.

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna Sorry for the late reply, passed out. You were right it was filtered out under the menu. Can't believe I didn't even bother to check there, so stupid of me. Thank you for the hint.

[BielBdeLuna]

no man, we all made those kinds of errors :)

[BielBdeLuna]

I'm adding a shader effect at either the spawn time of the monster or the activation time of the monster (when triggered), can we agree on the monster shaders?

we want the possibility of a burning stage, as well as a gibing stage, at the end of his life cycle, what shader parms do we standarize for those effects?

I propose a shader parm8 for the start shader effect (because 7 is for the end shader effect, like burning)

[ghost]

@BielBdeLuna For monsters I've made a hovering droid so far, I could create a sequence for its spawn that looks like some kind of nano tech is assembling it in mid air, then for it's destruction a disassembly sequence where it looks like some kind of electrical malfunctioning.

[ghost]

I can't open the map, it gives an error MAX_CLIENTS for player. Player may only be spawned with a client.