Slab edge condition...

[theoryshaw]

Gentlemen ( @andyeck1, @alexcalixto, @kraut34, @smilliecraig)

How would we like to detail out the slab edge at the frost wall?

It sounds at though @smilliecraig would like to pour the frost wall up to 100 to help with finishing.

The concerns i have with that are...

• since there are a number of rooms that will have stained/sealed concrete as 'the' finish in the room. This 'seam' might be a potential eye sore.
• @andyeck1, should we be concerned about settlement of the slab?

[andyeck1]

@theoryshaw, @alexcalixto At the girt/metal panel sections, we would recommend using the first detail above (slab stopping short) because the girt can hide the joint and it creates a thermal break. At the storefront, we would follow what you are showing or an alternate as below.

The slab should not have settlement issue if the subbase is properly prepared. (for some reason, I couldn't get any of the other name tags to work)

[theoryshaw]

@andyeck1, possible to go down to a 6" frost wall...

If so, we can do something like the following...

Trying to avoid the cost associated with creating a 'shelf' in the frost wall. A narrower frost wall would save costs as well.

If 8" is the minimum you would recommend, although not as desirable, I'd be cool with something like the following..

[andyeck1]

Ryan, 8" is the code required minimum.

Thank you, Andy Eck Ntrive 630-318-1725 Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 4, 2015, at 7:42 AM, Ryan Schultz notifications@github.com wrote:

@andyeck1, possible to go down to a 6" frost wall...

If so, we can do something like the following...

Trying to avoid the cost associated with creating a 'shelf' in the frost wall. A narrower frost wall would save costs as well.

If 8" is the minimum you would recommend, although not as desirable, I'd be cool with something like the following..

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[theoryshaw]

Sounds good. If there's no objections, let's do something like the following...

[andyeck1]

@theoryshaw That works for me. What about the detail at the girts/metal panel? Should we provide a similar detail except the joint would be hidden by the wall system? @alexcalixto

[theoryshaw]

How about this?...

For metal panel condition...

This for those conditions where polycarbonate is adjacent to metal panel...

Resin panel...

Storefront condition... (polycarbonate at 1-story, is similar)

[kraut34]

Hey Guys,

I just want to chime in on the frost wall thickness. On our first go around with this project we were told we didn't necessarily need a frost wall at all. We could do piers and a floating slab with a thickened grade beam. I am definitely not going down this road. My point is that the frost walls are not structural (correct?), so are we 100% sure we can not go down to a 6" frost wall.

Thanks,

Toby Krause Krause Custom Builders 920-285-6490

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Schultz notifications@github.com wrote:

How about this?...

For metal panel condition...

[image: screenhunter_294 jun 04 09 50] https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/507113/7987071/d801cdbc-0aa0-11e5-87ea-3defc96619e4.jpg

This for those conditions where polycarbonate is adjacent to metal panel...

[image: screenhunter_293 jun 04 09 50] https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/507113/7987069/d7ffd02a-0aa0-11e5-9b67-409065454c61.jpg

Resin panel...

[image: screenhunter_296 jun 04 09 59] https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/507113/7987068/d7fec892-0aa0-11e5-8faf-5ddf71bd4223.jpg

Storefront condition... (polycarbonate at 1-story, is similar)

[image: screenhunter_295 jun 04 09 51] https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/507113/7987070/d801c9de-0aa0-11e5-8139-b0674f2ea8cf.jpg

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpeningDesign/Sports_Complex/issues/44#issuecomment-108928550 .

[andyeck1]

@theoryshaw , @kraut34 @alexcalixto

IBC 1805.2.1 dictates that permanent supports of buildings and structures shall be protected by one or more of the following methods:

1. extending below the frost line of the locality (noted in geotech report as 4'-0" below grade and this is the preferred method);
2. construction in accordance with ASCE 32; or 3 Erecting on solid rock.

The minimum foundation wall thickness is 7.5" per IBC 1805.5 and IBC table 1805.5(5).

In order to meet code, we would recommend that the foundation walls extend to frost depth and are 8" thick (min).

[theoryshaw]

@andyeck1 Would it be worthwhile to explore the ASCE–32 exception here?.... http://hcinspection.com/ACE_Frost_Protection.pdf

[kraut34]

Would we consider the frost wall a "permanent support". What will the frost wall be supporting?

Toby Krause Krause Custom Builders 920-285-6490

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Andy Eck notifications@github.com wrote:

@theoryshaw https://github.com/theoryshaw , @kraut34 https://github.com/kraut34 @alexcalixto https://github.com/alexcalixto

IBC 1805.2.1 dictates that permanent supports of buildings and structures shall be protected by one or more of the following methods:

1. extending below the frost line of the locality (noted in geotech report as 4'-0" below grade and this is the preferred method);
2. construction in accordance with ASCE 32; or 3 Erecting on solid rock.

The minimum foundation wall thickness is 7.5" per IBC 1805.5 and IBC table 1805.5(5).

In order to meet code, we would recommend that the foundation walls extend to frost depth and are 8" thick (min).

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpeningDesign/Sports_Complex/issues/44#issuecomment-108971665 .

[andyeck1]

@theoryshaw I have not incorporated that design before, but after a quick look, it appears that the foundations will have to be 24" deep to avoid wing insulation. Also, in order to hold down some of the Pre-Engineered Building Columns, we designed the column footings at 4'-0" below grade to incorporate the soil load into our design. The foundations would have to step up and down between the columns. Do you want us to consider the design further?

@kraut34 In this scenario, it is not supporting anything.

Has anyone contacted the local building reviewer? I would prefer to discuss this idea with them to verify if this is something they would consider.

[kraut34]

I would like to stick with 4' frost walls. I would just like to do 6" frost walls to save on money if that is a possibility. I will call the building inspector and ask.

Toby Krause Krause Custom Builders 920-285-6490

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Andy Eck notifications@github.com wrote:

@theoryshaw https://github.com/theoryshaw I have not incorporated that design before, but after a quick look, it appears that the foundations will have to be 24" deep to avoid wing insulation. Also, in order to hold down some of the Pre-Engineered Building Columns, we designed the column footings at 4'-0" below grade to incorporate the soil load into our design. The foundations would have to step up and down between the columns. Do you want us to consider the design further?

@kraut34 https://github.com/kraut34 In this scenario, it is not supporting anything.

Has anyone contacted the local building reviewer? I would prefer to discuss this idea with them to verify if this is something they would consider.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpeningDesign/Sports_Complex/issues/44#issuecomment-108996308 .

[kraut34]

I talked to our building inspector. He said it would be the state making the call on the foundation thickness. He felt we could possibly go down to 6" with more rebar, but that isn't going to save us any money. He has never seen 6" walls used in this application, so please move forward with 8" frost walls.

Toby Krause Krause Custom Builders 920-285-6490

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Andy Eck notifications@github.com wrote:

@theoryshaw https://github.com/theoryshaw I have not incorporated that design before, but after a quick look, it appears that the foundations will have to be 24" deep to avoid wing insulation. Also, in order to hold down some of the Pre-Engineered Building Columns, we designed the column footings at 4'-0" below grade to incorporate the soil load into our design. The foundations would have to step up and down between the columns. Do you want us to consider the design further?

@kraut34 https://github.com/kraut34 In this scenario, it is not supporting anything.

Has anyone contacted the local building reviewer? I would prefer to discuss this idea with them to verify if this is something they would consider.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpeningDesign/Sports_Complex/issues/44#issuecomment-108996308 .

[andyeck1]

Sounds good. @KevinZinsmeister @avitro @alexcalixto

[theoryshaw]

thanks gentlemen.

[theoryshaw]

Not to beat a dead horse, but wanted to share this link for the record nonetheless.. http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-building-codes/16852-minimum-thickness-frost-wall.html

@kraut34, your call.

[kraut34]

With that blog, are you angling at ICF forms or a six inch thick frost wall?

I'm not interested in using ICF walls. however if you were looking at 6 inch frost walls I'm all for it if the state is ok with it On Jun 4, 2015 4:53 PM, "Ryan Schultz" notifications@github.com wrote:

Not to beat a dead horse, but wanted to share this link for the record nonetheless..

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-building-codes/16852-minimum-thickness-frost-wall.html

@kraut34 https://github.com/kraut34, your call.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/OpeningDesign/Sports_Complex/issues/44#issuecomment-109066929 .

[theoryshaw]

I just emailed the state and cc'ed you guys.