Remove Nostalgia

[tonybruess]

It has served it's course. The maps are consistently among the lowest rated. Primed has become the new place for regulars to hang out and it's constantly improving. I think it's about time we put the bad boy down.

Forum Thread: https://oc.tc/forums/topics/549ce8b5c29635a97b003843

[Blueshadic]

Please do not remove it... Nostalgia might be the lowest rated but they're still fun to play on... and not everyone likes the primed maps and how it runs. You should let Nostalgia stay or atleast put the high rated maps in Primed because imo all the primed maps are based on people who know how to use cannons.... you should'nt take away the small server ;-;

[ghost]

Maybe it should be replaced with another Primed server, with new maps and such in case team sizes reach capacity (which will probably happen if nostalgia regulars, if there still is any, are to migrate to primed).

[MathSquared]

[TL:DR below]

I feel like the maps on Nostalgia and Primed serve slightly different audiences.

The purpose of Nostalgia is to allow long-time members to play the maps that they used to play in OC.TC's infancy. That's why we have maps like Airship Battles--sure, making a TNT map entirely out of wood tends to lead to the map being blown to smithereens, but it's still a blast from the past for many members.

On the other hand, Primed players are primarily looking for innovative TNT maps. That's why we have systems like TNT licensing and constantly upgrade the spawnkit for each new version (in fact, that's why those maps have spawnkits)--we're using the latest features of Minecraft to our full advantage.

I'm not a Nostalgia regular, but I feel like the main reason why people play Nostalgia is to play old maps, not necessarily to play the latest and greatest maps. Nostalgia maps cater to a very specific audience, and that's not the group of people that are showing up on OC.TC right now. I'm not saying Nostalgia players don't want to play good maps--I'm just saying that that's not the only reason why that server exists.

The low ratings on Nostalgia are because of this distinction between old maps and new maps. It's possible that the people we're recruiting don't like getting their spawnchests blown up by carpetbombers. It's possible that there aren't enough regulars on the server to balance out those who can't adjust to the playstyle. It's even possible that the newer maps are just better (though some regulars might take issue with this). Regardless, Nostalgia is designed to cater to a very specific audience. As long as that audience is satisfied, I am too.

TL;DR: Keep Nostalgia because it's designed to give players a very specific experience, so low ratings don't matter as much.

[Phraxell]

Please keep it, or at least ensure that many (if not all) of it's maps can be played on another server.

[DoomRobotBoy]

Since I don't play on it I give Nostalgia no value. Player sizes are usually pretty low, and most maps are easily rushable, not killfarm-proof and a popular place for griefers. Not many maps last that long, except for Harb and Sand Wars (due to time limit).

If you want to keep any of the maps, I suggest they are updated to a standard we can live with.

• Airship Battle is basically a control the rotors map, you got them and carpet bombing is the way to go. Then after you farmed enough kills and the core turns to gold mode you can easily get the core.
• Medieval Warfare is a map where you can always tnt run. It has a lot of unused space (surrounding the castle) where no one walks or lives. You can just get around the castle, enter the castle from behind, and grief the entire building. That of course if the map hasn't been rushed yet in under 1 minute.
• Shroom Trip; this map is way too easily rushed. People do tend to gather supplies, though they are always players who just rush, and this rushing is so easy on this map. If you go to the other end taken from spawn, you can practically jump on the core. Bridging through the center with the cover of several mushrooms floating randomly is also a not-forgotten activity.
• Sky Traffic, I just find this map too big. It's a good idea, but doesn't play well. The boundaries of the map are never used, causing sneaking up on your enemies being a very easily done job. Using a cannon to blow up your entire enemy spawn ship is also available, since the distance is usually so large (not even counting height difference) that you can't counter a cannon without making one yourself. Though by the time you made a cannon exactly opposite to the enemy cannon you're already dead.
• Avalance is basically just a rush map. Insane height limit and very wide frontline make it both easy to pass your enemies and rush for a quick objective.
• Cake Wars; even though it's a great map, killfarming is a real issue here. The core is so close to spawn, and there is no spawn armor or anything, that spawnkilling is almost definite to happen. For example when I play that map and end up - geared up - in the enemy cake I don't know if I am allowed to kill the players trying to stop me from leaking their core. There is so little difference between spawnkilling and killing someone 20 blocks further in the field.
• Race for Victory, Watery Grave, Harb & Urban Jungle, Sand Wars, Fortress Battles & Spaceship Battles are all pretty good maps. Though Sand Wars is a bit too chaotic, and race for victory and fortress battles seem to be easily and quickly rushed these days.

[WannaMineMyCraft]

I think the maps either need some major gameplay improvements or the server will have to go. However I would still like to see some sort of version of it maybe on another server (whether that be a main project ares server or some form of whitelisted thing).

[Matic0B]

I agree with its removal.

[HIVERaven]

@MathSquared

"On the other hand, Primed players are primarily looking for innovative TNT maps. That's why we have systems like TNT licensing and constantly upgrade the spawnkit for each new version (in fact, that's why those maps have spawnkits)--we're using the latest features of Minecraft to our full advantage."

This is what some people THINK the primed players want. We don't. The primed community is basically a circle jerk over how poorly half of the innovative maps look and play. We don't want spawnkits. We don't want fancy XML features. What we really want is DTC tournament style maps that are adapted for public matches.

[ghost]

Pasting from my forum thread response: I agree on the removal.

I'd recommend people to take a look at why Nostalgia was created in the first place. Back then, we had ~5 servers and no old maps (i.e. maps from PGM 1.0) were on rotations. This meant that we had gone for a year without playing any of those old maps which were still very fond to many of our older users. And for the first year of its existence, nostalgia worked great. It was consistently full, people liked it. Most of the people who played the maps had played them before on PGM 1.0. It is also important to remember that back then, almost no other maps on rotations had TNT on them. This made Nostalgia unique.

However, the server has clearly ran its course. The maps are no longer exciting, for a large part because few people are interested in playing them and matches are seldom full. We now have a more developed TNT map server with Primed. The original target audience of the server is also long lost.

I feel removing nostalgia would be good for the maps. They are maps which are fun with friends, but are pretty dry when played 24 / 7. They could still be played via /setnext, and I think their value would rise that way.

We gotta mix things up to keep them interesting; currently Nostalgia is an old dinosaur which has outlived itself.

[gjpg]

If it isn't removed it definitely could use some spicing up, it seriously suffers from rushing and team griefing and although the entire point of the server is to only play the oldest maps, the rotation is incredibly stale and unexciting after 2 years straight of not much happening, only real fix to this problem would be to add quite a few (Newer) old maps that could help breath some life back into the server, I think that this fix could only keep it running so long, and it closing down is inevitable.

[ghost]

I wholeheartedly agree with its removal. Nostalgia is more or less a garbage dump for old and bad maps (more info in #149 and #229) at this point. If it isn't removed we would have to completely revamp the rotation to raise its quality, but after that Nostalgia would be like a completely new server which would result in people complaining that it's not nostalgic anymore.

Let this server rest in peace, nobody would profit from keeping it alive any longer.

[HIVERaven]

I think instead of removing it, just either move it's positions on Dynamic Server's lower on the list, or have it only up on Saturdays. This would make it more of a "Let's play Nostalgia, it's up" or a "I've never seen this server before, lemme check it out" type thing.

[Junkdog21]

First of all, there will be even less servers. Also, there is bad ratings because people loves to go Nostalgia to socialize, and most stay as observers chatting with their friends. I think Nostalgia is part of the _community_ not part of the PvP servers, that is how I see it. I think Nostalgia should not be removed or it will be a really negative and great hit to the _community_. Everybody love it because they can derp with their friends there and make them too, it don't have good rates because people don't go there to play PvP mostly, excepting maps like Sand Wars, they go there to stay as observers and chat, and, correct me if I am wrong, observers can't rate maps. So, I hope it stays <3.

[CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

All the maps that are currently on Nostalgia are the best maps of their time and almost all other maps that could be put on just simply are terrible. Battleships is massive, laggy, and confusing. D-Day is hard to get out of spawn, and frustrating trying to get all materials, along with also being unable to place tnt in the base. Fairy Tales I requires custom elements not available in PGM, also can pretty much only be fun by making it a 6v6. Fort Wars was an okay map when it didn't get rushed, but the 1.7 hunger destroyed the map being any challenging, it just made it impossible to fight the enemy which simply has 10 apples and diamond armour.

The maps should stay, and the server should stay. What should be done is adding new maps that recently became two years old.

[ghost]

@Junkdog21

Everybody love it

This is entirely wrong, I know a bunch of people which wanted Nostalgia removed for quite some time now.

observers can't rate maps

They can

they go there to stay as observers and chat

They can use any of the other 30+ servers that the Overcast Network offers.

[Gumdrum]

I think Nostalgia should stay, but it definitely needs some modernization. I feel Nostalgia is considered by many to be a dump because the developers don't seem to spend much time trying to improve it. Nostalgia is a social place and the maps aren't that bad if you have played on them for a while. Primed isn't really improving since all I really see are clay maps with kits that don't provide enough TNT for sustained scatter cannon fire.

[Pingy]

I want Nostalgia to stay since its where a lot of memories were made and memories are not meant to be forgotten.

[Superjd10]

Antony stated this on the thread: Keep it open only on weekends, that would give a nostalgic feeling, playing Nostalgia everyday and everytime removes the Nostalgic thing.

[twizmwazin]

I am completly content with letting go of Nostalgia. While the maps may be the older maps that some people enjoy playing in a controlled tournament setting, they play awfully in public maps. At one point I thought poor gameplay on a public server was an inherited feature of TNT maps, although the new maps on Primed have proven this theory wrong. Nostalgia should not be a 24/7 server, as the server is not a popular server anymore, since the introduction of Primed. If the community wants the server so much, they should play on it more often. Additionally, it is mentioned the maps have poor ratings. It is pretty clear why. Over time, we have seen a constant improvement is the type of maps being created, a constant trial and error. I would say the current progression is the Primed stained-clay-quartz-spawnkit style, and I would say it is largely a huge success, and it has good player counts. But the Nostalgia maps came before this development. By today's standards on Overcast, these maps would not make it into rotations if they were submitted today.

[WannaMineMyCraft]

Problem with keeping it open on weekends is that not everyone is in the same timezone and therefore a large amount of people would not be able to play it on the weekend as it would only be open 1 day a week for them.

[eliyap]

I support the removal, it's mostly good for farming modpoints and primed is superior

@HIVE please don't replace "I" with "we"

[HIVERaven]

@Ipskie The chat on primed is basically a circle jerk on how XML + Stained clay it is.

[ghost]

To add onto my opinion I posted yesterday, there are two different definitions of Nostalgia.

1. Nostalgia is a server for old maps. Sure, this perfectly fits into the gamemode and type segregation we already have to this network. However old maps should still comply to the quality standards we have on the rest of the network. This would require a complete revamp of the Nostalgia rotation. The other option is to go back to mixed servers entirely and merge the good Nostalgia maps into the mixed rotations.
2. Nostalgia is a server for old maps which do not fit into the normal rotations, but they are still worth keeping. Maps should comply to the quality standards we have on the rest of the network even if they don't fit in the normal rotations. However - imho - this is not needed. The maps aren't in the normal rotation for a reason. If a staff member wants to set the map next it's fine, however we don't need an extra server for this.

Tl;Dr: We need to either put a ton of work in Nostalgia or remove it and spend the time on something way more useful. I'd choose the second option, but the decision is up to the admins.

[Tapetepato]

Just wondering, but, when is it being removed? Sorry if it takes long to do it, i dont know how this stuff works :+1: this is a great idea!

[tonybruess]

This issue was opened for discussion

[eliyap]

I take it then that nostalgia will stay?

[itsmiiolly]

Correct

[Tapetepato]

why will it stay? EDIT: I don't see why it should stay. Barely any player that is a regular on the server or that atleast knows what he is play on here. Just do /server Nostalgia whenever you want. I guarantee you there will be atleast 1 or 2 dux players joining the same team everytime boosting their stats by getting armor, fast bridging, and then break some pieces and spawnkill while it leaks. Most of this people are the ones on the forums that wrote stuff like "i play there all the time nostalgia is life is so fun defense is bad pls dont you already removed rift!11!!!212121" or those "regulars" that used to play here but hopped now onto primed and forgot of it but don't want it removed because "dude i remember this its nostalgic stuff yuo cant take it away i had fun here". It's just abandoned since primed came out and there's no fun of it. Every time i join and try to cannon or make a defense, i end up dying because of the 5 man stack of people hungry of cores. I think that if you are not going to remove it, at least place it near the first servers on the book, or replace it with Primed. It's not fun anymore except for those greedy objective farmers. Do you really think its fun for those 20 or more players on the match that are just crafting armor, picking some supplies or just watching the map, to either get spawnkilled or tnt runned on on the first 2 minutes of the match. Its not fun for anyone except for these guys that farm the rotation over and over again. Just take a look to https://oc.tc/matches?server=Nostalgia ... pages and pages of 2-4 minute matches, just with one or two 7-10 minutes ones once in a while Please consider removing it and spreading the maps on there to Destroy, Primed, Alpha, Beta, etc.

[skippy369]

@Tapetepato Don't continue to try to remove somethings others may enjoy. As you can hopefully tell the backlash will not be pretty.

[CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

@Tapetepato Maybe if people actually know what to do they can actually win against donor stacking for once. You are complaining simply because one team has brains and one doesn't.

[Tapetepato]

@CoWinkKeyDinkInc But that's basically the way Nostalgia plays. Some tourney team or group of 5+ friends jump in, stack, rush, spawnkill and thats it. The team that "has no brains" as you say won't even learn how to cannon, how to defend, etc, if on the first 1-2 minutes they get 5v1ed and then spawnkilled as they respawn. It's just broken and nobody plays there anymore except for these guys that stack. trust me, just randomly jump on Nostalgia, there will be at least 1 guy rushing while the other players are clueless

[ghost]

@CoWinkKeyDinkInc It's not about having brains or not. It's about whether you have played for a week or a year. PGM has a huge amount of strategies that for old players are self-evident, but which new players have no chance of knowing. They haven't yet learned them from experience with older players like you have. This gap in knowledge and the advantage a team receives from it is a fact.

Saying they "don't have brains" is incredibly ignorant and insulting. New players are just as smart as anyone else - they only lack the experience. The problem here is your own elitism.

[CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

If people care about winning, they will observe and find a way. Some people don't even try.

[tonybruess]

And you still can't see past your own elitism. Wow.

This discussion is done.