High Input Lag on 3D games

[Dogway]

PCSX2 version: pcsx2-v1.5.0-dev-3138-gfbafd4420-windows-x86

PCSX2 options:

Software or Hardware mode indistinctly. Using Safe Preset

Plugins used: Default: GSdx32-AVX2 Spu2-X LilyPad 0.12.1 FWNull Driver 0.7.0

Description of the issue: There's a high game input lag in 3D based games, rarely below 6 frames of lag. Here are some tests done with frame advance using the minimum recorded frames for fastest event paths.

MGS3 Subsistance (6 frames) GTA Vice City (6 frames) GTA San Andreas (10 frames, 166ms!) Sengoku Basara X (6 frames) Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3 (7 frames) Taiko Drum Master (6 frames) Silent Scope (6 frames) Time Crisis 3 (5 frames) Capcom Fighting Evolution (4 frames)

Generally it's 6 frames of game input lag which is one of the highest recorded on current emulation software compared to Dolphin (5), Citra (4), Retroarch (4-5) and possibly Cemu and RPCS3 (they feel snappy)

How to reproduce the issue:

-Enable "Recording Tools" -Load a game -Press the frame advance hotkey -Press a fast event triggering button on your pad -Press again the frame advance hotkey as many times (counting them) until the event starts the animation

PC specifications: Operating System: Windows 7 x64 SP1 CPU: Intel i5-4670K @ 4.1Ghz GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070

[DeadManIV]

And you're positive it doesn't feel like that on the console? I just don't wanna be chasing unicorns here.

That's a good point. I might be able to test this out on my PS2, but I can't guarantee it unfortunately. I did try the PS3 emulator to see what it was like there and the same issue is occurring... So maybe it is the game.

[DeadManIV]

And you're positive it doesn't feel like that on the console? I just don't wanna be chasing unicorns here.

I tried my Vita and my actual PS3. Seems to be about the same honestly... maybe I was just misremembering the game. Getting my PS2 out is much more annoying than getting my Vita/PS3 out. But I really want to know what the original was like. Maybe the game was just meant to have a sort of delayed double jump/ground pound.

Edit: and yet at the beginning of my Vita playthrough it seemed like the input lag was gone. But then it came back so I don't know. And I couldn't get it back the way it was after that.

[refractionpcsx2]

And you're positive it doesn't feel like that on the console? I just don't wanna be chasing unicorns here.

I tried my Vita and my actual PS3. Seems to be about the same honestly... maybe I was just misremembering the game. Getting my PS2 out is much more annoying than getting my Vita/PS3 out. But I really want to know what the original was like. Maybe the game was just meant to have a sort of delayed double jump/ground pound.

Edit: and yet at the beginning of my Vita playthrough it seemed like the input lag was gone. But then it came back so I don't know. And I couldn't get it back the way it was after that.

Well if it exists on those versions too, that's a mild relief, all the people saying PCSX2 is terrible, it's good to know the original games show the lag also. Emulators will always be worse by a frame or so, there's not much you can do about that.

Thank you for testing :)

[sandman332]

Sorry I'm just seeing these new posts now.

I tested same games as last time and felt no difference at all. Now, I did test this time with my PS2 going downstairs where my PS2 is hooked up and back to my computer with all but 1 game (disk is scratched always freezes now on PS2) and noticed that the input lag at least for the games I tested is not there on my actual PS2.

One game (well technically 2 games but the one is pretty much an expansion) was/still is absolutely unplayable on PCSX2 the input lag/delay is so godly bad but feels totally fine on my PS2. That game in particular is Delta Force: Black Hawk Down & Delta Force: Black Hawk Down – Team Sabre.

Other games tested are: Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 Battlefield 2 Modern Combat James Bond 007: Nightfire Ghost Recon 2

Again all the games still have some sort of input lag/delay and the FPS games are sadly brutal on PCSX2 compared to my PS2 especially when I tried aiming properly at someone hard to get an accurate direction with the delay there. Delta Force is definetly the worst of all of them on PCSX2 but for all games I really didn't notice any difference between the builds listed here in this thread.

Here's hoping one day this will be an issue of the past but for now, some of these games just aren't playable on PCSX2 (to me at least). The funniest thing of all is that I always thought for PCSX2 I would have had the issue of not having a strong enough PC to handle it, but nope, something like input lag is what killed it for me.

Keep up the great work guys it's still insanely impressive it's gotten this far just hope to see this pretty big issue hopefully either fixed or greatly improved somewhere down the line.

Thanks!

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, has anybody checked how the input lag is on the Xbox Series X for emulating games? Scene it can be used to emulate lots of old games in dev mode, of course doing this you can't play normal Xbox X games then.

[refractionpcsx2]

@sandman332 thanks for replying, a couple of questions

1. Did you try the build I posted here on 2nd November?
2. Did you try configuring and using your keyboard to eliminate possible controller lag?

[sandman332]

Hi again, Sorry really only have time on weekends lately to check stuff.

1. I did try that build you posted on 2nd of November (just deleted old .exe and replaced with the Nov. 2 one was that the correct way of checking it?) and didn't notice any difference.
2. I did not try configuring my keyboard will try that as well.

EDIT: I forgot to bring this up here (mentioned elsewhere) but something I did notice is that games that do support 60fps patches input lag/delay is practically non existent. I tested this with Hot Pursuit 2 and the input delay was completely gone, however I couldn't run the whole game at 60fps all the time but did test when the game was running fine and it was completely gone. Which makes me wish lots of the games I wanted to play had 60fps patches since it's pretty much gone from my test(s) however then there is the other issue where you need an even more powerful computer to run games with 60fps patches and if the game only runs normally in Software mode, pretty much out of luck getting a 60fps patch running there.

[refractionpcsx2]

well a 60fps patch won't change how we handle pad behaviour, PCSX2 will still do 60 vsyncs a second (even in 30fps mode) and this is when we check the pad for changes, the only thing your patch is changing is the game logic, so I don't know how that means it's our issue?

I'm not saying we don't have input lag, but you're changing stuff outside the emulation and it fixes the problem, if it was the emulator then it would still be an issue, but we're getting blamed for the problem, I just don't get the logic in that.

Edit: Okay admittedly PAL games will check 50 times a second, not 60, that was my bad, I was talking about games which are 30fps patched to 60. But aside from that, the logic is the same for every game.

[sandman332]

Sorry, I think it was just placebo. I only tested a 60fps patch with Hot Pursuit 2 at first, only a racing game so don't really need "precise" movement. Anyways I tried a 60fps patch with the worst game I have had input delay with (Black Hawk Down) and of course the game looked smoother and felt smoother it still definitely had quite bad input lag. The only difference being higher fps made it feel more smooth, but trying to aim properly and whatnot still shows the same results as without a 60fps patch. Same thing when using a 60fps patch on Ghost Recon 2, input lag is still bad (might be same as before) only difference is the 60 is making it feel more smooth but this can easily be seen when trying to aim at something/someone properly.

I'm still going to try and set up the keyboard at some point to see what results I get but not sure there will be any improvement.

[refractionpcsx2]

pcsx2-inputlag2.zip as we've been having a guy on reddit test this, do you want to try this build and see how the input lag feels. I don't know what else we can do beyond this to improve the lag, that's like, the last known area that input lag could be in.

[oryxcallotis]

I compared this build with the standard github build and the difference felt like night & day, trying the same game side-by-side.

[mvdhout1992]

pcsx2-inputlag2.zip fixes the 0.1-0.2 sec input lag issue for me with Burnout Takedown 3, haven't tested other games yet. Running latest Win10 with latest stable pcsx2 default settings, intel i5-10400f and AMD Radeon 480 and using Wireless Logitech Gamepad F710 on my main desktop screen and 2018 Oled set to game mode. I don't have input lag issues with other emulators/games like Dolphin or Project64.

Thanks!

[mvdhout1992]

pcsx2-inputlag2.zip combined with turning off vsync and frame limiting and using RivaTuner Statistics Server's scanline sync instead fixed every input lag, response is instant now with the dpad buttons. I still notice that for the control sticks I need to press a little bit further to the direction I want to go to. Maybe modify the deadzone default settings a bit so it registers directional input on control sticks a bit quicker? It's off just a little bit.

[refractionpcsx2]

okay that's positive, any results from anybody else?

[Helium-4]

Yeah latest test build is the biggest improvement of all by far, might perform a tiny bit worse framerate wise in CPU limited scenarios (testing with SW on the Ace Combat 4 intro I get 85 fps instead of just above 88fps on the worst dips, and it's about the worst result I've seen) but the improvement seems well worth it.

[refractionpcsx2]

it will be worse framerate wise, it's making the emulator wait if the GS plugin is behind a bit.

What I did you can basically replicate in your current build. if you use a master build and go in to your PCSX2_vm.ini and change VsyncQueueSize=2 to VsyncQueueSize=0 (1 might be okay too) That should have similar effect, if you could try that too, that would be helpful. I will probably just add a GUI option for this so you can modify it yourself, so those who care less about input lag can have slightly better framerates.

[refractionpcsx2]

pcsx2inputlag3.zip

Okay here's the last thing that can be done, this adds in the flip model changes from #3549

To see if it helps input lag, you will need to use one of the included gsdx plugins and use DX11 as your renderer According to @tadanokojin the changes are

adds support for d3d flip mode (reduce latency in window mode), pseudo exclusive fullscreen (aspect ratio must be fit to screen) and variable refresh rate.

I guess see if this helps further?

[mvdhout1992]

pcsx2inputlag3.zip might be a bit less laggy than pcsx2inputlag2.zip but could be placebo. Hard to tell during testing but I think it's slightly less laggy. Just tested an hour with Burnout 3: Takedown.

Using the supplied plugin in the zip and dx11 ass renderer.

Anyway thanks a lot for working on PCSX2, you guys are amazing!

[refractionpcsx2]

Okay thanks for testing :)

[bigol83]

I think pcsx2inputlag3.zip is definitely a bit less laggy than pcsx2inputlag2 testing with dx11. Tested it with Gta San Andreas switching between the two versions. It's noticeable playing with the videogame in CJ's house. But for me the tearing is quite distracting so pcsx2inputlag2 is good enough.

[refractionpcsx2]

Apparently if you enable VSync in the Emulator settings and set the aspect ratio something other than "fit to window" the tearing shouldn't be there when full screen. Window should be okay.

[bigol83]

I tried with 16:9 and vsync enabled and it still has tearing. When i choose 4:3 and vsync enabled there is no tearing but there is a bit more input lag.

[refractionpcsx2]

Okay,thanks for letting me know. I'll cook something up to add the vsync queue thing in to the UI so you guys can set it to zero, and put in the extra pad update.

[bigol83]

Ok, thanks, it's great you are still trying to reduce lag.

[ABU3BGE]

no diffrence here with shinobidou and shadow of c but thanks anyway

pcsx2inputlag3.zip

Okay here's the last thing that can be done, this adds in the flip model changes from #3549

To see if it helps input lag, you will need to use one of the included gsdx plugins and use DX11 as your renderer According to @tadanokojin the changes are

adds support for d3d flip mode (reduce latency in window mode), pseudo exclusive fullscreen (aspect ratio must be fit to screen) and variable refresh rate.

I guess see if this helps further?

no diffrence here with shinobidou and shadow of c but thanks anyway

[refractionpcsx2]

pcsx2-inputlagfinal.zip

Alright, last build, im hoping it is the same performance as inputlag2, you will need to go to Config->Emulator Settings->GS and make sure "Vsyncs in MTGS Queue" is set to 0

If all is good, I'll PR this and call it there for now.

[ABU3BGE]

pcsx2-inputlagfinal.zip

Alright, last build, im hoping it is the same performance as inputlag2, you will need to go to Config->Emulator Settings->GS and make sure "Vsyncs in MTGS Queue" is set to 0

If all is good, I'll PR this and call it there for now.

THANKS THERE IS A LITTLE IMPROVMENT I TESTED SHINOBIDOU AND SC AND TRY 2D GAME NEOGEOBC TO SEE AND IT IMROVED A LOT FOR 2D ALMOST NO INPUTLAG IN 2D BTW IS THIS THE LATEST VER OF PCSX2 ? AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE PROGRAM ?

[refractionpcsx2]

Glad to hear it seems to have gotten rid of it. So judging from what you guys are saying, I'm probably good to close this issue once the PR is merged?

and im not sure if that was the 100% latest build, I think I was accidentally using a branch, if you want the latest version with the changes use the PR build (PR linked above)

[Immersion95]

Glad to hear it seems to have gotten rid of it. So judging from what you guys are saying, I'm probably good to close this issue once the PR is merged?

and im not sure if that was the 100% latest build, I think I was accidentally using a branch, if you want the latest version with the changes use the PR build (PR linked above)

I think it can be closed when this PR is merged and also when the aspect ratio triggering it is fixed.

Do we still need "EnableVsyncWindowFlag=enabled" to enforce the Pseudo "FSE" state ?

[refractionpcsx2]

I don't know if that will work on master, probably not, and I'm unsure when that PR for the Flip Model stuff will be merged, as that is not my PR, I was just asked to bundle it in with these test builds to see if it helped any.

I can ask the OP of the Flip Model PR to rebase once my PR is merged so you can get a build from there if you want (or you can keep the inputlagfinal build i guess, not sure if that's missing some fixes from master) until the Flip Model PR is merged, that's the best I can offer for the moment.

[ABU3BGE]

what do you mean by pr ?

[refractionpcsx2]

PR = Pull Request, basically a set of changes to put in to the program, you can find it by clicking on this number #4115 And there will be links for builds at the bottom (referred to as checks) which you can download.

[ABU3BGE]

thanks btw are they going to put what you did in future update ?

[refractionpcsx2]

well yes, because I'm going to merge it :P

if you mean progress report? more than likely in the Q1 2021 report.

[mvdhout1992]

If you want to keep this open I can test a few other PS2 games.

Thanks again for all the effort you guys are putting into development, amazing emulator for a few tough to emulate system.

[refractionpcsx2]

No problem, I just wanted to get this issue sorted because to be frank, it's kinda driving us nuts with people reporting it and nobody doing high speed footage to show the lag differences (except water111 who did some), so at this point we've just tried to look at potential sources of lag and hope you guys who feel it can "feel" a difference.

Yes I'm throwing s**t at the wall and seeing what sticks :P

[ABU3BGE]

i tested mgs 3 and way of samurai 2 there is no difference but devil summoner 2 and gtasa and armored core 3 and onimusha 3 there is little difference and btw i have game fixes disable because it effect inputlag to me

[refractionpcsx2]

btw i have game fixes disable because it effect inputlag to me

That makes absolutely no sense... I think you're feeling placebo there.

[ABU3BGE]

no for real i have it disabled for long time because it caused high inputlag

[refractionpcsx2]

I don't understand why that would be a thing, unless there is a patch the only thing it does is changes a few settings when the game boots, which the game should need.

if it's doing more than that then we have a problem.

Do the games you disable it for show they have fixes/patches on the top of the console/log window?

[ABU3BGE]

no like shinobidu and other game i forgot what it is so not all the games have that problem with gamefix

[ABU3BGE]

it only have this in shinobidu Patches: No CRC found, using 00000000 instead

[refractionpcsx2]

That only happens when you full boot and it's going through the BIOS procedure, that will change to your games CRC later on.

[mvdhout1992]

The fixed zip file also fixes input lag in the GTA games for me.

[DukeSkinny]

Agreed. There is a significant improvement as compared to a build from late last summer. Movement in 'Okage: Shadow King' is now near-instantaneous for me.

[Skalt711]

Hello.

The build in pcsx2-inputlagfinal.zip does reduce input lag for me when I play Gradius III and IV bundle and Dodonpachi Daioujou. I didn't test any 3D games if Gradius IV from the bundle doesn't count.

[refractionpcsx2]

Thanks for testing guys, the changes in pcsx2-inputlagfinal are now in master, so no need to test that anymore :)

[ABU3BGE]

by master you mean the nightly build ?

[refractionpcsx2]

Yes

[ABU3BGE]

thanks thats good news

[limyz]

@refractionpcsx2 I tested the latest nightly build with GuitarFreaks and verified the input latency is much significantly reduced with a custom controller using rawinput. I probably see if a stream is possible in the coming week.