Juggernaut relic is too integral to his gameplay

[ImelchorI]

i really love what youve done with this mod, and especially the juggernaut as a character. im a sucker for these slow, tanky and heavy hitting characters in games in general.

however, i feel that there is too much power in his relic. the effect is really cool, but if you compare the heavy body with the ironclad and silent relics, they grant a useful boon to the characters that synergize with them, but you can easily sacrifice those relics to the spire whale and still get a good run on those characters. i dont feel like this is really possible with the juggernaut. if you were to forfeit his relic, you would be kindof boned, since he relies too much on it.

i feel like the juggernaut class relic should be more like orichalcum or something similar that is really useful to compensate for his reduced energy and ability to play cards, but is simple enough that it doesnt define too much of his playstile.

the current heavy body could still continue to exist as a rare power card, or as a uncommon/rare skill.

i propose to replace his class artifact with something simpler.

• trim a defend from his default deck
• buff on-guard(+) to 5(6) block
• heavy body: "when you have plated armor, gain 2 strength"

the new heavy body effect fits the theme of your attacks gaining weight through a heavier armored body, but isnt too mandatory to make the character be playable at all. it works for every juggernaut build, since he has plated armor generation from on-guard.

[Meow-Mixer]

I disagree on this point, because you trade an energy to achieve this benefit. After cost is considered, it's better than the Silents power but worse than the Ironclad's.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 10:54 AM, ImelchorI notifications@github.com wrote:

i really love what youve done with this mod, and especially the juggernaut as a character. im a sucker for these slow, tanky and heavy hitting characters in games in general.

however, i feel that there is too much power in his artifact. if you compare the heavy body with the ironclad and silent artifacts, they grant a small and useful boon to the characters, but you can easily sacrifice those artifacts to the spire whale and still get a good run on those characters. i dont feel like this is really possible with the juggernaut. if you were to forfeit his artifact, you would be kindof boned, since he relies too much on it.

i feel like the juggernaut class artifact should be orichalcum or something similar that is really useful to compensate for his reduced energy and ability to play cards, but doesnt define too much of his playstile.

i propose to replace his class artifact with something simpler.

• trim a defend from his default deck
• increase on-guard(+) to 5(6) block
• heavy body: gain 5 block the first time you play an attack card each turn
• overpower changed to scale with 3(5) times your current energy. playing the card still only costs 1 energy

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[Meow-Mixer]

Although I do feel like Juggernaut tries to introduce too many new mechanics. Ie draw reduction, heavy body, and stat damage. Also, currently quite a few of the Juggernaut cards are weak for their rarities. After about 10 hours of Juggernaut play I have yet to make it passed the 2nd chapter without natural endurance + strength gain, or a near infinite combo.

[ImelchorI]

cant i quote you? this platform is weird.

anyway. the juggernaut gives up an energy, yes. but the tradeoff should be in the power of his cards. mainly the overflow effects, which gives cards a benefit even when they cant be played. this what makes the juggernauts lower energy not as punishing.

while the ironclads class reclic is really strong, it feels entirely impossible to play the juggernaut without his own relic.

i have noticed this as a consistent theme for other mods aswell. like the seekers ethereal cards would become extremely hard to impossible to manage without his relic and being able to top cycle them.

the design of the vanilla classes however doesnt make them unplayable to impossibly hard to play without their class relic. this allows you to just get into runs where youre trading your class relic for a random boss relic. something that would be almost unthinkable for the juggernaut.

this is why i think the juggernauts relic should be a lot weaker and a lot less mandatory to his builds, and more power should be in overflow effects on some of his cards instead, and some of the cards that dont have overflow effects could be cheaper.

"grapple" should upgrade to 0 energy cost for example, since it serves as a setup to play as many other cards as possible.

[Meow-Mixer]

I see where you're coming from for it. But I have to disagree on the seeker. I give that relic up almost as much as humanly possible. The Seeker benefits much more from extra energy than top cycle in its current state. The Necromancer however I refuse to give up, and only give up the Ironclads if I'm trying for a whirlwind run. The Silents, I give that one up pretty much any time I'm bored.