Any planned update of hydro?

[Midaychi]

I've noticed that the revision of xenoflora on paradise is really old (though has some customizations), and I dunno maybe someone might want to get around to updating it? I'm not sure which of these repositories is technically more up to date.. you'd have to ask Zuh. https://github.com/Zuhayr/Baystation12/commits/xenoflora https://github.com/Zuhayr/Baystation12/commits/xenohydro

On a side note, some minor things I've noticed:

Your xenoflora is xenobiology-id based instead of science-id, and they don't have access to the research outpost, so they either have to beg the RD or Chemist for unstable mutagen and Dyethl instead of making it themselves.

Your xenoflora area doesn't have a sink or disposals. Minor, I know, cause you can just walk over to the surgery area.

You have custom mutants, but their stats look somewhat copy pasta'd and the base plants don't have the 'has subspecies shift' flag on them. You'd have to find them by accident or look in the code. Or I thought you did anyways. I don't see their seed datum. o_O

It doesn't matter what's in the plant-be-gone; as long as there's a liquid in the sprayer, spraying it on plants acts exactly like plant-be-gone.

[FalseIncarnate]

I guess I should respond to this, given my previous updates to Hydroponics.

First off, it seems most of your post is actually about Xenobotany and not basic Botany, which admittedly is not a job I'm super familiar with yet. Yes, their work-area is Xenobio access, which makes sense given it's location off of Xenobiology's main area.

Diethylamine is obtainable from any Nutri-Max vending machine that has been hacked, but Unstable Mutagen would require outside assistance (just like for normal botanists). However, with the ability to construct portable chem dispensers, it's not too far-fetched to obtain the equipment in your lab to mix these chems yourself, if you know who to ask.

Xenobotany does not have a sink. It does have a water tank, which can be used to fill containers with water. While it's not a perfect replacement, it does help alleviate the need to march up to Xenobiology proper just to fill a bucket for a while. The lack of a disposal was probably either an accidental mapping oversight, or purposefully left out given the small size of xenobotany's area. Adding one in shouldn't be too hard for any mappers who wish to add one in.

By custom mutants, I'm guessing you mean the mutant variants you get from adding radium/unstable mutagen to a tray? These actually are derived datums that inherit the stats of the "parent" seed except for the stat(s) being modified. These new versions are cleared between rounds, and are handled this way to avoid messing with the base seed datums. If that's not what you meant, please clarify so I can try to address it.

In the case of a "sub-species shift flag", I'm not sure one is needed. Unless the plant actually CAN experience a species shift, it's mutants datum should be null. When a plant analyzer is used on the seeds/product/tray, it will display the line "It exhibits a high degree of potential subspecies shift." if the mutants datum contains at least 1 entry. Mutation checks are handled similarly, so I'm not sure what benefit including a flag for this might give us.

Yes, plant-b-gone will technically work with any inserted reagent, as long as it's the right bottle. If you'll notice, it also doesn't empty said bottle when used on a tray. Both of these were mistakes/oversights I personally made when first updating Hydroponics. I will be correcting these with my next update to Hydro, but thank you for confirming this for the sake of documentation.

TL;DR: I'm aware I goofed on the Plant-B-Gone and will be fixing that. The sink/disposals would be at the mappers' discretion, though is not a major issue (convenience mostly). Custom mutants are derived datums and not actually pre-defined, hence the majority of their info being copied from the parent seed datum. A sub-species shift flag probably isn't needed given how we handle the checks for species shifts and the analyzer readout regarding shifts. The ID access is able to be easily worked around through hacking the machine or constructing (and upgrading) a portable chem dispenser, just like for normal botany. Inclusion of additional access would need to be cleared by someone a bit higher up than myself.

If you have questions, clarifications, or if I missed something, please point them out for me. I would like to give Xenobotany some love and updates like I have done with basic Hydroponics/Botany, but I'm still familiarizing myself with it's workings so I can find ways to improve it's gameplay.

[Midaychi]

By subspecies flag and custom mutations I actually thought you guys had old tg plants like the money tree, and I didn't see the base flag having a subspecies shift. I guess I was imagining it or botany must have gotten a cash bag some other way.

Well the main reason I was posting this was because the way your trays handle reagent make it a pain in the arse to handle reagents.

Using unstable mutagen on plants in the 6 month old revision is basically akin to flushing it down a toilet and hoping some of it sticks.

If you want to see how trays handle chemicals in the newest code, you could check out the dev server for bay (or heck even the stable server.)

Basically, It has a reservoir for all reagents placed in it, that it slowly drains into the plant and processes. It makes using mutagen a lot more efficient, and as a result you can accomplish the same thing with about 10x less mutagen.

[FalseIncarnate]

When I reworked the mutation system recently (merged 11/23/14, PR titled Botany Mutation Rework (it was on the ZOMGponies repo)), I adjusted how mutagenic reagents are handled and mutation chances are calculated.

Our current system is different than Bay (or any other server I'm aware of) as a result. However, it's not a six-month old revision, so I'm not sure what you are referring to anymore.

[Midaychi]

The '6 month' was going by the last modified dates on the files that aren't stuff you directly modified. https://dl.dropbox.com/s/e695tn41kwlz0pv/1.png https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j63s5pz2rccxnen/2.png

Their version just works a lot better and makes mutations easier. I guess that's not what you're going for though?

I didn't know about the portable chem dispenser, so that's neat.

As an idea though, you could probably do what goon does for mutations and have a mutative fertilizer? Have it only obtainable through the biogenerator, and you have something that could work. Xenobiologists would have less of a reason for highly dangerous substance acquisition in great numbers, and just having it a fertilizer that triggers mutations occasionally would make your current system more fluid.

Anyways this issue is moot I guess.

[Fox-McCloud]

@Midaychi--it's something that probably should be thought about/discussed over; I'm definitely in agreement that our botany could use an update as you're exactly right; it's a very very very old version.

As for Xenobotany placement? It's something I've wanted to do; we'll have to completely rework toxins though, to fit it in--but I do feel that it being a general science job would be more interesting to the crew than it being locked to Xenobiology.

[Midaychi]

It's actually my fault that it's in xenobio on paradise, as I was the one who first mapped it in. I didn't know enough to make a new subjob for science so I just wedged it into xenobio and hoped someone better would fix it. 6 months later and it's still there, just moved south.

[FalseIncarnate]

I just submitted a PR that fixes the Plant-B-Gone bottle issue. It also makes ALL spray containers valid options to use on a tray (yes, even a Bioterror Chemsprayer) and correctly transfers reagents from the container to the tray. Plant-B-Gone bottles filled with water will no longer function as Plant-B-Gone, for example, nor will they last forever.

[Midaychi]

So does that mean I can put a plant tray in a small area, like say those little two-windoor airlocks for slimes in xenobio, and use a chem sprayer full of unstable mutagen on it?