Summoning "Weapon" Archetype - Grimoire

[CollinHerber]

The grimoire will be a new Summoning weapon type that will utilize conjuring as it's main source of damage. The player will actively control a conjured minion - In addition to the normal summons a summoner will have.

There will only be a single item that is used for this weapon type - However you will need to find things through progression to unlock new summons.

When the Grimoire is equipped in the item slot a new UI item will appear (next to character info, quest book, etc) When opening this UI you will be presented with a Menagerie of summonable items. Each showing a "page" about the summon and how to obtain it.

Obtaining the Grimoire

The first class quest from Ravencrest - The Burrow will go over the grimoire

Alt Use

This will summon the minion(s) that you will control. Left clicking will send the summon minion to the target location. Summoned minions will attack things around the target location without going too far away.

Available Summons

Owl

Can Fly Damage: 3 Only summon 1 Unlocked in the Menagerie by sacrificing the following items

• Feather from an Owl (% Chance from Owl Kills)
• ??
• ??

Cave Bat

Can Fly Damage: 5 Only summon 1 Unlocked in the Menagerie by sacrificing the following items

• Pair of Cave Bat Wings (% Chance from Owl Kills)
• ??
• ??

Giant Scorpion (Black version of Sand Poacher?)

Cannot Fly Damage: 12 Only summon 1 Unlocked in the Menagerie by sacrificing the following items

• Black Scorpion
• ??
• ??

Other Ideas?

Programming Tasks

• [x] Create the "Grimoire" Item
• [x] Create the Grimoire UI Button
• [x] Create the Grimoire UI State + Page System
• [x] Create "Conjuration" System that allows you to select a NPC to summon from the Grimoire UI
• [x] Create "Feather from an Owl" Item
• [x] Create "Pair of Cave Bat Wings" Item

Sprite Tasks

• [x] Create the "Grimoire" Item
• [x] Create the Grimoire UI Button
• [ ] Grimoire UI Background (Necromancy book of some sort?)
• [x] Create "Feather from an Owl" Item
• [x] Create "Pair of Cave Bat Wings" Item
• [x] Giant Scorpion Animated NPC (Black version of https://terraria.wiki.gg/images/b/b0/Sand_Poacher2.gif)

[GabeHasWon]

As with the Quest Book, I'd say making the Grimoire obtainable as soon as a player joins a world is ideal. However, here you could definitely tie getting your first summon into a quest or exploration thing or whatever directly in the Menagerie. This would be clear in function - you open the new tab in/near your inventory/accessories/whatever, then it says Complete <Quest> to unlock a conjuration! clearly and directly.

For the rest of the idea, this is solid! Sacrificing things to get new summons is fun and makes a thematic, less linear version of crafting.

[GabeHasWon]

Alright, for this, I think making the materials for unlocking summons directly go into a separate inventory of said materials would be beneficial. As-is, this would mean a ton of superfluous, 1-use (at the moment), relatively common materials would populate the world. This would suck and kill inventory management, something mods do by accident with one or two materials already. Instead, we'd either have a chest-like UI or just a list of buttons (I don't know if a stack of items would be necessary) to add in the items there and save on inventory. Thoughts?

[CollinHerber]

Alright, for this, I think making the materials for unlocking summons directly go into a separate inventory of said materials would be beneficial. As-is, this would mean a ton of superfluous, 1-use (at the moment), relatively common materials would populate the world. This would suck and kill inventory management, something mods do by accident with one or two materials already. Instead, we'd either have a chest-like UI or just a list of buttons (I don't know if a stack of items would be necessary) to add in the items there and save on inventory. Thoughts?

When I originally came up with the idea to sacrifice items to be able to summon things I wasn't thinking it would be a 1-time use but rather you unlocked that summon once all of the pieces were collected so it would be far less inventory management. You'd collect the 3-5 items once and that summon became available.

That said I was thinking summon pieces could be "body parts" of similar creatures found in the world. And maybe each of those body parts could go into this new inventory that you're referring to? Once you found that body part is just immediately went into your grimoire if you've obtained one. (Maybe the body parts wouldn't drop unless you obtained the grimoire)

[benj7126]

sounds kinda morbid, a "summoner" doesn't really scream body part collector, lol -not that i think it's a bad way to do it, just kinda... huh...

[CollinHerber]

The original intention was to be cultic or ritualistic. That is where the bat wings and feather from an owl originated from

[CollinHerber]

Doesn't need to be though. I just thought that was thematic

[GabeHasWon]

When I originally came up with the idea to sacrifice items to be able to summon things I wasn't thinking it would be a 1-time use but rather you unlocked that summon once all of the pieces were collected so it would be far less inventory management. You'd collect the 3-5 items once and that summon became available.

Oh, I meant 1-use as in it's used for only this. So, once you unlock the summon(s), they're filler items that take up a bunch of space for no reason. I also thought it was similar to Don't Starve's cooking system in a way, where you have to put in some combination of materials in order to unlock new summons. Is it not like that?

Also, would Grimoires have affixes, rarities, etc.? This current prompt doesn't seem to account for them if they do.

[CollinHerber]

I think having it be where once you unlock the summon you're good to go. No materials after that. Just summon it at will. So I think we're on the same page here.

Originally I was thinking it would be summoned through the Grimoire itself - Maybe when you used the alt use of the Grimoire it opened the GUI to select your summon? Once you selected the summon in the Grimoire it would just be out and you could left click to control it.

As for rolling - I don't see why it can't be rolled. I feel like if it didn't roll or have a rarity it would be much less powerful as a result as you can roll some nice affixes. Perhaps the book doesn't drop with a rarity but there are ways to "Enhance" your grimoire or keep leveling it up which will unlock affixes that can later be rerolled or change with the reroll currencies planned?

[benj7126]

Oh, ig i didnt follow too well... Given the contect, it makes sense, fair.

As for rolling

It could be neat if the body parts have affixes and you can enhance the summon like that, make it really hard to farm (low drop rate) but given that each body part would have like one maby (most likely not) two affixes it would be quite a lot easier to reach the desired combination.

[CollinHerber]

Now that sounds really cool. The items that make up the summon can be rolled. We can have the tiers of the affixes have lower values instead of limiting them to just 1 or 2 affixes. If it only has 1 or 2 affixes it would be very simply to make the exact item we would want and that seems kinda meh at that point.

[benj7126]

We can have the tiers of the affixes have lower values

Ah, true xD

[GabeHasWon]

It could be neat if the body parts have affixes and you can enhance the summon like that, make it really hard to farm (low drop rate) but given that each body part would have like one maby (most likely not) two affixes it would be quite a lot easier to reach the desired combination.

How exactly would you apply these affixed materials? You'd need to summon the specific conjuration with the materials required and also provide the exact affixes to the conjuration, which means either we need a unique item per material per affix combination obtained - which would quickly grow large - or some other system where you could, say, unlock affixes to use freely.

[CollinHerber]

I imagined the items would be socketed into the "page" that was for that summon. They would effectively be item slots that only appear when you're in the grimoire GUI. Only when you had all matching parts in the item slots would the summon then be available.

[GabeHasWon]

Yes, but how do you choose the affixes on the materials? Making a system like this encourages heavily farming, thus collecting a ton of the materials, which would mean a massive inventory of materials. We'd need a sorting system of some sort for that for sure.

[CollinHerber]

The affixes on the items would be rollable with the crafting currencies that are planned. See #78 for more info

[CollinHerber]

I do agree though we may need some sort of "Virtual Storage" system for this is we want the items like this. Whenever you pickup one of the grimoire specific items it goes to the virtual storage instead - When you open the Grimoire GUI something akin to magic storage GUI shows up and allows you to see your obtained "Creature parts" and use the crafting currencies on them

[benj7126]

At that point couldn't we give extra storage to all things from this mod? So you have normal terraria things in your inventory and then either another inventory tab or some gui, you have your PoT items? Or just more space where the PoT items default to the new space.

-Considering that you often might not evne have enough space for the vanilla terraria items, not to mention +1 non-stacking item for almost every mob you slay (on average, maby..? idk... we will see)

[GabeHasWon]

Then we'd have the issue of the PoT storage being mostly useless random weapons and a ton of Grimoire materials; we'd still want something separate for the Grimoire stuff. The point is to both save space and make the Grimoire selection UI reasonable to use and navigate.

[benj7126]

But what about the next thing after grimoire or the thing after that, do we just want 10 different places you store your items or what are we after here..?

I don't think it's going to be a problem to navigate (if my interpretation of you thinking it will be a problem to find the grimoire items is the case), we do have an infinite amount of storage that can be labeled, chests - the PoT storage would just be for extra room before you have to return to base (exploring or mapping). It's not like we don't want the player to build a base, right?

[CollinHerber]

I also agree with Gabe I think grimoire given the context we are talking about and the functionality should be it's own storage. And that storage screen is automatically opened when open the grimoire UI

[GabeHasWon]

But what about the next thing after grimoire or the thing after that, do we just want 10 different places you store your items or what are we after here..?

At the moment we don't have any plans for anything like the Grimoire, and I find it a bit unlikely for us to make another thing that needs that much storage at all. We might want to make like additional inventory since PoT does drop a lot of single-stack items, but apart from that nothing needs nearly as much space.

The affixes on the items would be rollable with the crafting currencies that are planned. See https://github.com/Path-of-Terraria/PathOfTerraria/issues/78 for more info

I still don't really understand how these are applied, and these currencies open up another can of worms. For a user, would I go to another UI, spend currencies on whatever materials I want, then go to the Grimoire UI, use those materials and then have my summon with whatever benefits?

I think the best way to go about this is just make many Grimoire drop with the affixes, like other Gear does, which are applied to your summons as needed. This'd save us from needing to overcomplicate the Grimoire UI, save a lot of space on Grimoire material logic, simplify the player's experience using the Grimoire and its summons, and make it more intuitive.

[benj7126]

You use them by having them on/in cursor and then clicking on the item in some way; shift+left-click, right-click, or maby just a keybind.

(I'm 99% sure the idea is at least... Not like it has been discussed or anything, I think?)

[CollinHerber]

I'm fine with the items dropping with affixes on them. Just know that every single item that rolls affixes on it will have the ability to use the reroll currencies on them as well.

You use them by having them on/in cursor and then clicking on the item in some way; shift+left-click, right-click, or maby just a keybind.

This is correct. You use interact with the reroll currency first and then you interact with the item you want to reroll. If interacting with items gets too difficult because of the native interaction functionality around Terraria items we could build a very simply UI around it where reroll currency goes in one slot and then the item you want to reroll goes in another.

[GabeHasWon]

So then would something like this work? Top lets you scroll through all summons, bottom shows you the required items for said summons. Locked summons would be grayed out and unusable, only there to show how to get them.

If the item has the affixes, we don't need a storage system at all. Grimoire materials go directly into a counter (probably a dictionary), and then just checking that is all that's needed. This is both orders of magnitude easier to program and way, way easier to understand than making materials have affixes.

[CollinHerber]

That seems smart to me. Then the player would be able to click in their inventory any reroll currency and then apply said reroll currency to the scrollable window for rerolling.

[GabeHasWon]

So you'd apply affixes directly to the unlocked summons? Because that raises a whole other issue, one of making a non-item have and apply affixes.

[CollinHerber]

No. Perhaps there is some confusion.

"Monster Parts" will be rollable.

Each of the items (I think we are thinking 5 in total here) would be rollable items. These items would have lower tier affixes than what could normally roll on items.

The "Monster Summoned" is not an item but rather an activation state

When all 5 monster parts are placed into the grimoire into their correct spots you would be able to "Activate" the grimoire to contain that summon. The "Activation" basically just applies all of the affixes on each of the parts onto the grimoire itself. Since we only want those affixes to be applied to the user when they have it equipped in their offhand slot.

The grimoire would go into the "Offhand" slot that we want from #84

This would also disable the "Mainhand" slot as you are "directing the monster with your hand while holding the book in your offhand". It should not be able to be equipped if the main hand slot is used.

Does this help clear things up? I know there is some new information here. Let me know if there are any issues from a technical standpoint with these thoughts.

[CollinHerber]

This would also disable the "Mainhand" slot as you are "directing the monster with your hand while holding the book in your offhand". It should not be able to be equipped if the main hand slot is used.

It may make more sense actually if the book took the mainhand but instead the offhand was not available. As it would be weird as this is technically your "current weapon"

[GabeHasWon]

When all 5 monster parts are placed into the grimoire into their correct spots you would be able to "Activate" the grimoire to contain that summon. The "Activation" basically just applies all of the affixes on each of the parts onto the grimoire itself. Since we only want those affixes to be applied to the user when they have it equipped in their offhand slot.

So then we would need a storage, and this would be a bunch more work. Would "Applying" permanently unlock the affixes on the summon? Would you need to do this every time you want to summon a specific summon with specific affixes? Are the materials consumable? Or would they just return to the storage?

To be clear, I don't mind more work, I'm just really confused how this would function in-game. Especially with the offhand slot, this is really complex to use and would almost certainly require a tutorial. I've been directly told how all of this works and I still don't understand, so I can only imagine a player seeing this for the first time.

[CollinHerber]

Are the materials consumable? Or would they just return to the storage?

Would you need to do this every time you want to summon a specific summon with specific affixes?

I'm thinking they would be permanent and would actually just stay in the slots so one could reference back to the items they used to make the summon and look for potential upgrades in the creature part summons. The grimoire item would just be pulling the affixes from what is in these "Creature part" slots.

this is really complex to use and would almost certainly require a tutorial. I've been directly told how all of this works and I still don't understand, so I can only imagine a player seeing this for the first time.

I agree and think it may be better to start with one or two items to summon a creature in the start to introduce the basic concept of putting in creature parts to create a summon. Thinking it could be apart of the Burrow starting quest.

I also think that's okay though. This is a rather complex, and pretty freaking slick, idea that is new to the playerbase and warrants a tutorial to some degree anyway.

[GabeHasWon]

I'm thinking they would be permanent and would actually just stay in the slots so one could reference back to the items they used to make the summon and look for potential upgrades in the creature part summons. The grimoire item would just be pulling the affixes from what is in these "Creature part" slots.

I've read this several times over and I'm not sure what you mean by this. You'd activate, then the parts would stay in the sacrifice slots? Would this persist between closing and opening the UI? Would the UI automatically associate a summon with the last items used on it? I'm starting to consider leaving this to someone else since I seem to be missing a lot here. Also, if the parts do stay, we'd probably want to move away from an occult/sacrificial theme, since that wouldn't make sense in context.

[CollinHerber]

The reason why these aren't going to be consumable is that getting GG items , of any kind including item parts, is intended to be very difficult and take a lot of grinding. That's the ARPG life.

If we consume these items we effectively make the grind worthless.

You'd activate, then the parts would stay in the sacrifice slots?

Yes that is correct. You'd be able to take the parts out and swap them out for the same type of that part. IE a bat wing for a bat wing with different affixes. And then have your summon after re-activating it use those new affixes.

Also, if the parts do stay, we'd probably want to move away from an occult/sacrificial theme, since that wouldn't make sense in context.

I think it's still fine. You're still using parts of things to make something larger. That fits the theme regardless if they stay or not.

Why don't we start small on this so we don't get too deep into the weeds. Lets say for the MVP we have the following

• [ ] A "Creature Part" Storage System
• [ ] The ability to summon a creature by inserting creature parts that match (IE all 5 pieces needed for the Black Scorpion)
• [ ] The ability to control the summoned creature by it following your cursor

I think this is a good starting piece. As long as these creature parts base from PoTItem they will be rollable , even if they are ALWAYS Common rarity for now and none of their affixes apply.

[GabeHasWon]

Okay, I think I got it then. I'll work on the storage system, and if I have questions I'll ask them here.

[GabeHasWon]

How's this for the updated UI then? Left is storage, top is summon selection, bottom is part activator. Item slot in the middle-right is the selected summon. This also allows for, ideally, a tutorial of some sort on the right if needed.

[CollinHerber]

I think that is perfect. And then the normal inventory would be just above the storage area. Looks great to me!

[GabeHasWon]

Oh, and Storage would automatically filter by selected summon. For example, if a summon uses 2 Bat Wings, 2 Wolf Eyes and 1 Rat Tail, the Storage would only display those items. Would make switching out affixed parts easier without necessitating a search bar or filters. Deselecting the summon would show all items.

[pilchardheck]

if i were to sprite the ui how big should it be

[GabeHasWon]

I'll make the placeholder UI, and I'll let you know how big everything is when it's all laid out.

[pilchardheck]

alright

[GabeHasWon]

Here's the going size for everything. It might be tweaked, but unless someone else has a strong preference for changes this seems fine. If any tweaks do happen, they'll be small.

[CollinHerber]

That looks good to me. It may be worth just making the bottom right bit take the full width. Give us a bit more breathing room for design. Could have the selected summon in the top left/right

[GabeHasWon]

Since it's going to use bespoke art for the pentagram, I'll change the size of that panel/area based on the art instead of trying to fit it for art I don't have yet.

[CollinHerber]

It may be good to filter the storage based on the selection of the summon as well. IE once you select a summon the left hand storage is filtered to only show items for that summon.

[GabeHasWon]

Yes, I mentioned that already a bit above.

Oh, and Storage would automatically filter by selected summon. For example, if a summon uses 2 Bat Wings, 2 Wolf Eyes and 1 Rat Tail, the Storage would only display those items. Would make switching out affixed parts easier without necessitating a search bar or filters. Deselecting the summon would show all items.

[CollinHerber]

Ahh whoops sorry missed that

[pilchardheck]

progress so far.. does everything seem ok

[GabeHasWon]

This is nice! Note that in-game, item slots usually draw their own background. I'll have to check out our item slot UI elements, but that might mean your nice background isn't used/is drawn over.

[pilchardheck]

[pilchardheck]

everything so far.. not sure what i want to do with the storage window

[GabeHasWon]

Not sure how I feel about the summons panel being a book. If we're going for a diagetic UI, the fact that it'd be a grid you can scroll through would look out of place on an otherwise static book. I could make it use pages, but that'd be quite a bit less convenient for players I feel.