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Person8880 / Shine

An administration mod for Natural Selection 2.
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FEATURE REQUEST: automatic reset and shuffle #688

Closed Rusty01 closed 1 year ago

Rusty01 commented 6 years ago

many times we run into issues where players change teams etc. after a shuffle. simply locking teams into place is not feesible as often players need to swap to command etc.

What I'd like is for a feature where the server can check if teams are balanced at the 60 second mark and force a reset shuffle if they are not even. Many times players sit in "spectate" and see which team is stacked and then auto-join that team. Late joiners are also an issue but I think having something like this in place would solve a lot of early game balance issues. Thanks for listening and keep up the awesome work!!! <3

Person8880 commented 6 years ago

This has been requested in the past, but I'm not confident it will work. If people fight a voted shuffle, then they'll also fight an automatic one, meaning either:

Either way, it's not really a pleasant user experience. I think these things are better left to be solved by players through the vote.

As for late joiners, if you apply just the ASSIGN_PLAYERS enforcement policy, it should help put them on the right team (though it won't be as effective as a full shuffle).

Rusty01 commented 6 years ago

When we have an admin on we force a shuffle and players are generally ok with it. Could you perhaps instead of forcing a shuffle at the 60 second mark, offer up a vote instead at the 50 second mark? "teams are not even. Reshuffle game"?

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Person8880 notifications@github.com wrote:

This has been requested in the past, but I'm not confident it will work. If people fight a voted shuffle, then they'll also fight an automatic one, meaning either:

  • The automatic shuffle continues indefinitely and people get so frustrated that they leave.
  • The automatic shuffle has a parameter to constrain the maximum number of attempts, in which case people will fight it until it stops.

Either way, it's not really a pleasant user experience. I think these things are better left to be solved by players through the vote.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Person8880/Shine/issues/688#issuecomment-390703166, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMYcNhswRoDRZDPqk2MkyvcjtQIAcuhZks5t0ugAgaJpZM4UF79K .

Rusty01 commented 6 years ago

There's a lot of new players and many of them are very very passive. They won't start a vote on their own and most won't even understand that teams are uneven. we're at a 40/60% win rate for marines vs aliens over 21,000 games and many of these are due to stacked alien teams. Shuffle does it's job but late join stacks are happening a lot and most stacks happen within the first minute.

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Van Fenix vanfenix1@gmail.com wrote:

When we have an admin on we force a shuffle and players are generally ok with it. Could you perhaps instead of forcing a shuffle at the 60 second mark, offer up a vote instead at the 50 second mark? "teams are not even. Reshuffle game"?

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Person8880 notifications@github.com wrote:

This has been requested in the past, but I'm not confident it will work. If people fight a voted shuffle, then they'll also fight an automatic one, meaning either:

  • The automatic shuffle continues indefinitely and people get so frustrated that they leave.
  • The automatic shuffle has a parameter to constrain the maximum number of attempts, in which case people will fight it until it stops.

Either way, it's not really a pleasant user experience. I think these things are better left to be solved by players through the vote.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Person8880/Shine/issues/688#issuecomment-390703166, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMYcNhswRoDRZDPqk2MkyvcjtQIAcuhZks5t0ugAgaJpZM4UF79K .

GhoulofGSG9 commented 6 years ago

To resolve the issue that new players often do not notice a ongoing shuffle vote I would make the vote more direct and use the vanilla F1/F2 voting GUI. Maybe there should be an plugin option to utilize that GUI instead of the shine menu.

Person8880 commented 6 years ago

Avoiding forcing votes on players (as the NS2 vote UI does) is a conscious design choice that avoids one player being able to disrupt the entire server with votes.

If players are failing to understand that teams are imbalanced then having a shuffle vote pop up on them won't really improve the situation. The best you could hope for would be blind F1 pressing just to get the vote off their screen.

Most of the servers I've seen have some form of hint in their advert cycle to indicate how to open the vote menu, as well as the map vote telling players how to do it. If people don't then notice the shuffle button, or take note of the often vocal players advocating shuffles, I'm not sure anything will make them understand.

It would be possible to display a warning if teams are imbalanced after time into a round (both in the chat and perhaps as something more prominent on the screen), but I still think it should be up to players to act upon it.