search

PlantPhenoOntology / ppo

An ontology for describing the phenology of individual plants and populations of plants, and for integrating plant phenological data across sources and scales.
16 stars 8 forks source link

flower bud breaking stage #74

Open edenny opened 9 months ago

edenny commented 9 months ago

The Budburst dataset includes a phase for when a flower or floral structure bud has broken to expose the new tissue inside (sort of the reproductive bud equivalent to breaking leaf buds).

Their specific definition is: “Flower sepals, the protective bud scales, have shed from the bud, exposing tender new growth tissues. The color of the flower may be recognizable.”

Should we add this or just include it within {unopened flowers present}?

ramonawalls commented 9 months ago

Given the show of love and the low cost of making a new term, I suggest we add it. Can track term creation here.

edenny commented 7 months ago

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

Regarding inflorescences, most of the datasets I am familiar with are standardized across many species and thus don't distinguish single flowers from inflorescences. For this reason we came up with "floral structure" to include both arrangements. So whatever we decide to create for this breaking flower/inflorescence bud issue, we should create a parallel set for "floral structure".

ramonawalls commented 5 months ago

Per call with Ellen today, probably best to just add synonyms.

ClaudHGE commented 4 months ago

Hi @edenny I'm looking into using floral structures instead of flowers in some cases and it seems to me that subclasses might be added. For example: 'unopened floral structure' should have as subclasses 'unopened flower' and 'unopened inflorescence'. Am I understanding it correctly?

Shouldn't there be an 'open inflorescence' class? I must mention that, in some eucalypt species, the inflorescence may be open while the flowers are still unopened.

I am based on the fact that flower and inflorescence are subclasses of 'floral structure'.

[unopened floral structure](https://ontobee.org/ontology/PPO?iri=http://purl.obolibrary.org/obo/PPO_0001027)

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

Regarding inflorescences, most of the datasets I am familiar with are standardized across many species and thus don't distinguish single flowers from inflorescences. For this reason we came up with "floral structure" to include both arrangements. So whatever we decide to create for this breaking flower/inflorescence bud issue, we should create a parallel set for "floral structure".

edenny commented 4 months ago

It sounds reasonable to me to include an open inflorescence class, but I will defer to @ramonawalls on that decision. We don't ask observers to evaluate that specifically, but certainly others might!

ClaudHGE commented 4 months ago

Hi @edenny and @ramonawalls, I'm still thinking about this. I'd like to know if, in the PPO context, a 'reproductive bud' is or should be a subclass of 'floral structure'. This is because, if I'm not wrong, they appear mutually exclusive as subclasses of 'reproductive shoot system'.

Edit: @edenny I believed that 'floral bud' could mean 'flower bud' and/or 'inflorescence bud' but I've just realized that bud has two subclasses: 'reproductive bud' and 'vegetative bud'. 'Reproductive bud' also has two subclasses: 'flower bud' and 'inflorescence bud'. It turns out that an EXACT synonym of 'flower bud' is 'floral bud' and there are no synonyms listed for 'reproductive bud' (I was expecting 'floral bud'). Therefore, it is very unclear to me now whether I can use "floral" to mean either inflorescence or flower. I've come here because you mentioned the 'floral structure' to mean both or either. Maybe reproductive would be clearer? otherwise, the synonyms should be fixed.

Interesting discussion! Making flower bud a synonym for unopened flower and then calling the breaking/bursting structure a "breaking/bursting unopened flower" makes sense to me and will work for the datasets I am working with.

Regarding inflorescences, most of the datasets I am familiar with are standardized across many species and thus don't distinguish single flowers from inflorescences. For this reason we came up with "floral structure" to include both arrangements. So whatever we decide to create for this breaking flower/inflorescence bud issue, we should create a parallel set for "floral structure".

edenny commented 4 months ago

Let's go ahead and add this since Claudia has a use case and Ellen came across another for apple tree phenology "pink bud" stage.