IRC channel instead of Slack

[MaxLeiter]

Why use closed-source software when IRC runs perfectly well? I'm willing to run a version of TheLounge purely for a PokemonGo channel, if people are unwilling to setup their own clients.

[douglascamata]

Slack as awesome as soon as we stop hitting the invite rate limit. Much more feature rich.

[MaxLeiter]

What are some features that Slack has over IRC/TheLounge? IRC doesn't have an invite rate limit...

[solderzzc]

IRC maybe same as Gitter, we can get Gitter back ?

[MaxLeiter]

Or just use IRC? Gitter would be a regression from Slack, if anything.

[solderzzc]

but we will lose the github integration

[MaxLeiter]

What Github integration? You can setup webhooks on the repo to announce commits, PRs, etc, plus I wrote a helpful bot for referencing issues and PR's which is available here. I'm willing to run lounge-bot (under a different name) and a github announce bot on the channel if necessary.

[solderzzc]

Nice :)

[MaxLeiter]

I registered the channel and started a Lounge instance here: http://avatar.playat.ch:5000, and am currently setting the bots up

[douglascamata]

I don't see any advantages of IRC over Slack. Why should we change?

[MaxLeiter]

Not proprietary, open-source, multiple clients, more general use, no invite limit, etc.

https://drewdevault.com/2015/11/01/Please-stop-using-slack.html

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter and then we lose: code highlight with github flavoured markdown, text files hosting, image hosting, very powerful notifications control, powerful built-in search... I can name more if u want.

[MaxLeiter]

It all depends on the client you setup....people can use imgur, pastebin, gist, etc. for file hosting. Notifications are all handled by the client (IRC has many, Slack has one).

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter this way you're trusting the users to have the best experience by themselves. We should give them the best experience by default.

[TheSavior]

It sounds like you guys are arguing over something like tabs or spaces. It doesn't really matter as long as we pick one. The project has currently picked slack.

However, if people are unable to join the slack channel because it is too popular and there is a limit to the number of people in a room or the number of invitations that can be sent out (is this the problem?) then the pros and cons are different. But @MaxLeiter, you should be explicit that that is the main problem you are hoping to solve.

[MaxLeiter]

While that is the main problem I'm trying to solve, there are also benefits to using IRC (many of which are mentioned in the blog post I linked above).

@douglascamata first and foremost, this is an opensource project posted to /r/pokemongodev: the people that use it should be relatively "advanced" users. They should be able to figure out IRC.

[douglascamata]

@TheSavior exactly. We send too many invites today and there's a limit to # of invitations sent per day. No limit to number of users in the slack group.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter there are of lot of ppl that don't even have command line knowledge using this. Just look at the issue tracker and you will see many issues that a noob programmer would be able to handle by himself. Many of these I already closed, but there were ppl asking what git was.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter they can figure out IRC, but how long will they need to find and configure a client to have a feature set close to Slack?

[MaxLeiter]

Those people probably shouldn't be using it, then. That's why I made #322: It links to an easy-to-use IRC web client I'm hosting.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter then you come again to the point that you're making not so experienced developers and potential contributors' life harder.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter open-source project best part is integration. Everyone one, no matter the experience, can help somehow. With IRC the communication part becomes clearly harder for ppl with less experience.

[MaxLeiter]

try using the client I linked; it's pretty easy to use. Doesn't require an obscure hack to sign up.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter can I past code there with highlighting (for everyone that sees it)? can I take a screenshot on my computer and just Control (or Command) + V there? can I paste a huge file in a proper way that doesn't spam the whole thing? No, for all these things I need external services. Not so simple.

[douglascamata]

http://avatar.playat.ch:5000 is not even loading for me.

[MaxLeiter]

While those are benefits, I think if someone can't use pastebin/gist they shouldn't be using github. This way, everyone can join now, as opposed to waiting for an invite.

I was pushing an update, feel free to try now.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter you're excluding less experienced people for no reason.

[MaxLeiter]

More people are able to use it, therefore more people are being included.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter not true. Just look the closed issues here.

[bool-]

I'd rather use IRC cause I'm already on it and wasting resources with another silly web app is pointless.

[MaxLeiter]

@douglascamata look at the issues regarding not being able to join slack #324

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter they're going to end automatically with time, I already told you this. We got almost 400 starts in 24 hours. Every single person was clicking to get an slack invite. Of course this would happen. If it were in IRC the channel would be simply useless because of the spam.

By tomorrow we should be given a few more hundred invites and the boom is gone, so we will be good with Slack.

[MaxLeiter]

It's more the principal that the invites exist: a FOSS project shouldn't use that. How many people do you think have tried getting a slack invite and have been expecting an email which won't ever come through because the heroku app doesn't report a failure?

[douglascamata]

@bool- "I'd rather use (___) because I'm already on it and using resources for (__) is pointless". Fill the gaps with whatever you want. Everyone has their preferences.

[TheSavior]

@MaxLeiter Probably fewer than the number of people who are already set up in Slack which would be uprooted by switching again.

[buusc0]

Agree with doug here. Once the slack invite issues are fixed it's definitely preferable to IRC. Sure, not everyone will be happy, but the majority will.

[douglascamata]

@MaxLeiter why not use Slack for FOSS? Do you also think I shouldn't be doing FOSS because I work on OS X machine (closed source)?

[MaxLeiter]

It's forcing people to use one; again, I recommend reading the blog post.

[douglascamata]

We're not forcing people to use any paid app.

[douglascamata]

I don't agree with that blog post, it doesn't show any clear advantage of IRC over Slack that would make me switch.

[MaxLeiter]

You clearly didn't understand the blog post; it's not trying to force you to use IRC > slack, it's saying IRC is better for FOSS projects. You as an individual are fine to use whatever you choose, but don't have the community use slack by default imo.

[douglascamata]

And can I force IRC just because it's FOSS?

[douglascamata]

"you can't force the community to use Slack, but let's force the community to use IRC instead" 😉

[MaxLeiter]

You don't have to force it either-way (and shouldn't), I just think forcing an opensource and non-proprietary alternative is the better of two evils.

[douglascamata]

Why? I can't be convinced by your choice if you don't present me arguments. Just the fact that you prefer open source over proprietary (but free) don't convince me.

[MaxLeiter]

I think I know a solution.

[haykuro]

I 2nd (3rd, 4th?) the IRC chat instead..

Haven't been able to access Slack either..

Plenty of feature-rich clients for IRC.

Check out:

• http://irccloud.com
• http://www.mirc.com/
• https://hexchat.github.io/
• http://limechat.net/mac/

[ckrmml]

@douglascamata I don't know what you are trying when loading http://avatar.playat.ch:5000, im also on mac os and it loads like a charm

[solderzzc]

IRC will expose all our users' info, including ours. So that's not good. Please let our development team focus on the big thing first, any issue can be log in issue list, so we won't miss anything. Let me close the related topics/MR at the time, will reopen when we have time.

[MaxLeiter]

They can use the web client; at least can the development team bother properly reviewing PRs and testing code instead? And closing an issue for later is a terrible idea; leave it open and ignore it, if you want, but you should still allow discussion and for people to see its still relevant.