jonfroehlich
commented
5 years ago Closed jonfroehlich closed 4 years ago
jonfroehlich
commented
5 years ago 
gari01234
commented
4 years ago More examples:
Ramps to private parking - garage / Rampas a estacionamientos privados
https://goo.gl/maps/h6wqsxFG9RyAt16T7
if the Label name "Surface problem" is changed to "Sidewalk Problem" then perhaps the "Sidewalk too narrow / banqueta muy angosta" tag could be added:
https://goo.gl/maps/h6wqsxFG9RyAt16T7
https://goo.gl/maps/FXMYCA7xc8ghf6hU7
https://goo.gl/maps/t4mHCw7rVCNmzMk78
steps / escalones
https://goo.gl/maps/4nZVtP86ncwALzib7
Pole / Poste
https://goo.gl/maps/7cRZVmkwc7Wufxxc9
Footbridge / Puente peatonal
https://goo.gl/maps/Amoe3v9xYtvmX1369
Private parking / Estacionamientos privados
https://goo.gl/maps/WaGxzPbxVzJK62Xn6
Advertising / Publicidad
https://goo.gl/maps/5eUj4zR6XZJ8RtDL7
Informal commerce / Comercio ambulante
https://goo.gl/maps/mGLrdn6M3A8iSsLz9
gari01234
commented
4 years ago For the case of studie of "Mexico", would it be possible to add the "pedestrian crossing" label with tags such as: "missing pedestrian crossing", "pedestrian crossing in bad condition"?
Although this tool is focused on accessibility problems, In Mexico, transport-related accidents are one of the main causes of deaths in children and young people between one and 14 years old, as well as women aged 15 to 29 (INEGI).
21 pedestrians die hit by a car every day in Mexico.
With this in mind, and knowing the possibilities of the "Project Sidewalk" tool, I believe that this tool could also be used to identify other insecurity problems, in the pedestrian network infrastructure, such as the lack of pedestrian crossings. Having these data would be a benefit for the urban planning of these areas, and therefore for the safety of the people who transit them.
Examples of the pedestrian crossings situation:
https://goo.gl/maps/YM9bhwneXHHM3kpt5
https://goo.gl/maps/P39BsufYj79C4E2p6
https://goo.gl/maps/Chkj79zSurTuUg4w6
https://goo.gl/maps/wfYqfpA7hW5v19VK9
https://goo.gl/maps/4rFtiWKCGh57hWZH8
https://goo.gl/maps/aBs6rumsgqoHxkfq9
...
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago Very good ideas here. We will discuss them in our meeting.
Jon
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 5:01 AM Gari01234 notifications@github.com wrote:
For the case of studie of "Mexico", would it be possible to add the "pedestrian crossing" label with tags such as: "missing pedestrian crossing", "pedestrian crossing in bad condition"?
Although this tool is focused on accessibility problems, In Mexico, transport-related accidents are one of the main causes of deaths in children and young people between one and 14 years old, as well as women aged 15 to 29 (INEGI http://cuentame.inegi.org.mx/impresion/poblacion/defunciones.asp).
21 pedestrians die hit by a car every day in Mexico https://elpais.com/internacional/2017/07/26/mexico/1501088097_159270.html .
With this in mind, and knowing the possibilities of the "Project Sidewalk" tool, I believe that this tool could also be used to identify other insecurity problems, in the pedestrian network infrastructure, such as the lack of pedestrian crossings. Having these data would be a benefit for the urban planning of these areas, and therefore for the safety of the people who transit them.
Examples of the pedestrian crossings situation:
[image: grafik] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50057640/71517368-f9958380-28ad-11ea-9eb2-957b628ac867.png https://goo.gl/maps/YM9bhwneXHHM3kpt5 [image: grafik] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50057640/71517440-5729d000-28ae-11ea-86ce-424c1050e67a.png https://goo.gl/maps/P39BsufYj79C4E2p6 [image: grafik] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50057640/71517607-21391b80-28af-11ea-914c-048480fd38b2.png https://goo.gl/maps/Chkj79zSurTuUg4w6 [image: grafik] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50057640/71517835-29458b00-28b0-11ea-828e-28dd249781b7.png https://goo.gl/maps/wfYqfpA7hW5v19VK9 [image: grafik] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50057640/71517913-82152380-28b0-11ea-8777-f138bf887c83.png https://goo.gl/maps/4rFtiWKCGh57hWZH8 [image: grafik] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/50057640/71518095-62322f80-28b1-11ea-875f-9a3f7c7c4e55.png https://goo.gl/maps/aBs6rumsgqoHxkfq9 ...
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gari01234
commented
4 years ago Hi Jon,
this is something that is seen very often. For now, we have been labeling it as "Surface problem = uneven". I don't know if that's the correct label.
Edgar
misaugstad
commented
4 years ago this is something that is seen very often. For now, we have been labeling it as "Surface problem = uneven". I don't know if that's the correct label.
Yep that's the right tag! That's the one I use as well
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago @gari01234 also made a list of Mexico-specific tags they would like us to add in the Liga Peatonal repository here: https://github.com/LigaPeatonal/evaluando/issues/5. (It can be confusing to have Issues split across two repos, so we should also figure out where the best place for this information to "live" is—my feeling is likely here in this repo).
gari01234
commented
4 years ago Yes you're right. Let's leave this information in this repo.
gari01234
commented
4 years ago Rampa peatonal:
Rampa peatonal ausente:
Obstáculo en banquetas:
Problemas en superficie:
No hay banqueta
Otro
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago This is great stuff @gari01234. And so very important. We agree that we need to be able to offer custom tags per context/region of deployment (and some of these tag ideas are universally relevant, I think).
One thing we need to be careful with is not to overwhelm our users with too many tag options—especially given with how they are currently implemented in the UI as lil buttons to click on/off (and adding too many tags will make the pop-up dialog box too cluttered and difficult to parse and understand, especially to new users).
I don't know exactly how many tags is too many but probably a reasonable maximum is ~5 or 6. What do you think? And if we did have that maximum, would you be able to prioritize or consolidate your recommendations?
gari01234
commented
4 years ago I don't know exactly how many tags is too many but probably a reasonable maximum is ~5 or 6. What do you think? And if we did have that maximum, would you be able to prioritize or consolidate your recommendations?
Yes, i can prioritize the tags. I think the amount of tags that can be added depends, as you mentioned, on the pop-up dialog box. Maybe @misaugstad can help by saying how many are possible?
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago There is no technical limit—we could technically add as many tags for each label type as we want. I think the limit is more users' cognitive ability to easily scan and accurately apply tags (and a long list makes this harder). Of course, we could explore other UI approaches for displaying tags... but that would be a bigger ticket.
shokiami
commented
4 years ago @jonfroehlich @misaugstad The phenomenon that the relevance of certain tags are dependent on the culture of the region is super interesting! I was wondering if you guys know of any way to collect data on the frequency of these various obstacles (e.g. are fruit stands really that common in Mexico City to the point of needing to include a tag?). Also, as I feel like I saw many of the similar obstacles when visiting family in Lebanon (including very narrow sidewalks, food stands blocking the sidewalk, and heavy traffic), I wonder if it might be beneficial in terms of scalability to instead add broader universal tags that accommodate for these region specific obstacles (such as "curbside vendor" instead of "fruit-stand"). Please let me know what you think!
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago The phenomenon that the relevance of certain tags are dependent on the culture of the region is super interesting! I was wondering if you guys know of any way to collect data on the frequency of these various obstacles (e.g. are fruit stands really that common in Mexico City to the point of needing to include a tag?)
This is a good point but that's why we have our local collaborators in Mexico to help identity and prioritize regional and cultural specific tags. :)
Also, as I feel like I saw many of the similar obstacles when visiting family in Lebanon (including very narrow sidewalks, food stands blocking the sidewalk, and heavy traffic), I wonder if it might be beneficial in terms of scalability to instead add broader universal tags that accommodate for these region specific obstacles (such as "curbside vendor" instead of "fruit-stand").
Agree completely! The key, I think, is in coming up with names (both in Spanish and English) that make sense to the deployment region. So, "fruit stand" for example may be far more recognizable and easy-to-understand compared with 'curbside vendor'
shokiami
commented
4 years ago Thanks @jonfroehlich that makes a lot of sense! There are plenty of great tag suggestions in this feed, and I was wondering if you (@jonfroehlich @gari01234 @misaugstad) have any opinions on which tags to prioritize? In other words: where should I start?
gari01234
commented
4 years ago I don't know exactly how many tags is too many but probably a reasonable maximum is ~5 or 6. What do you think?
@jonfroehlich I think 5-6 tags, per category, is a good number. All the categories (curb ramp, missing curb ramp, surface problem...) fall within those numbers, except the "obstacles" one. In the category of obstacles there are currently nine tags. 
I just prioritized the tags I proposed, for the obstacles category, and now they are the same amount as the current ones.
@shokiami The change of the tags I propose is for the Spanish language only. When @misaugstad and @jonfroehlich confirm you can use the following ones: : https://github.com/ProjectSidewalk/SidewalkWebpage/issues/1945#issuecomment-668612870
misaugstad
commented
4 years ago Con desnivel = with a difference in level
What exactly is this referring to as far as curb ramps go? Also not totally sure what you mean by "Plataforma única = level surfaces or shared surfaces" or "Muro ciego".
And below, this is just to help me get a handle on your suggested changes for Mexico:
Curb Ramp: remove (0); add (1) with a difference in level Missing Curb Ramp: remove (1) unclear if needed; add (0) Obstacle: remove (3) fire hydrant, parked car, and parked bike; add (4) garage access ramp, public telephone, street publicity, street commerce Surface Problem: remove (4) bumpy, grass, brick, construction; add (3) irregular texture, hole, water puddle
I need to think about these more over the weekend, but I'll make sure to get back to this on Monday.
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago I think we should still keep parked car on sidewalk. This is a big problem in Mexico, from what I’ve observed.
Also, grass on sidewalks is coming and can be problematic to rollability. Similarly, it’s nice if brick is marked since it’s a known bumpy surface.
I wonder if we need something like “stair” as well as something that captures the “vertical impedance” obstacles that are common in Mexico (like where a driveway is built on higher ground to the sidewalk and this creates a vertical “lip” almost like a curb)
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 11, 2020, at 11:02 PM, Mikey Saugstad notifications@github.com wrote:
Con desnivel = with a difference in level
What exactly is this referring to as far as curb ramps go? Also not totally sure what you mean by "Plataforma única = level surfaces or shared surfaces" or "Muro ciego".
And below, this is just to help me get a handle on your suggested changes for Mexico:
Curb Ramp: remove (0); add (1) with a difference in level Missing Curb Ramp: remove (1) unclear if needed; add (0) Obstacle: remove (3) fire hydrant, parked car, and parked bike; add (4) garage access ramp, public telephone, street publicity, street commerce Surface Problem: remove (4) bumpy, grass, brick, construction; add (3) irregular texture, hole, water puddle
I need to think about these more over the weekend, but I'll make sure to get back to this on Monday.
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gari01234
commented
4 years ago What exactly is this referring to as far as curb ramps go? Also not totally sure what you mean by "Plataforma única = level surfaces or shared surfaces" or "Muro ciego".
Con desnivel = with a difference in level (probably bad translated)
Some curb ramps are not built to the bottom surface.
Plataforma única = level surfaces or shared surfaces Some streets intentionally do not have a sidewalk. The purpose of the design is that the different types of mobility share the same space. The aim of this urban design concept is to improve road safety. here you can find more information about it: shared space
muro ciego= It is a wall that has no windows, no doors, and no other openings. This type of wall is said to affect walkability, because it increases the insecurity of the streets, especially on the corners. Maybe it is not necessary to add this tag, since it is not directly associated with sidewalks.
And below, this is just to help me get a handle on your suggested changes for Mexico:
Note: some of the tags, of the remaining ones, I suggest changing the name. For example: estrecha = muy angosta, ladrillo = textura irregular... arbol / veteación (I put them together)
gari01234
commented
4 years ago I think we should still keep parked car on sidewalk. This is a big problem in Mexico, from what I’ve observed.
You are right, this is something very common in Mexico. However, I prioritized fixed obstacles (those that have to do with the sidewalk infrastructure) over movable ones such as: parked car, parked bicycle. I prioritized these obstacles because they are the ones that require a change in infrastructure and not in people's behavior.
Note: street commerce is also a "movable obstacle ", but it is in the same place every day, that is why I am prioritizing it.
Also, grass on sidewalks is coming and can be problematic to rollability.
Yes you are right. Maybe this one should stay in "surface problems". But we would have to remove one tag, or have seven tags instead of six.
Similarly, it’s nice if brick is marked since it’s a known bumpy surface.
for the "brick" tag, I only suggest changing the name to "irregular texture" since there are sidewalks with other types of textures that are also problematic to rollability.
for example:
I wonder if we need something like “stair”...
Yes, I also think it would be good to add the tag "stairs". But we would have to remove one from the obstacles section, so that we don't have more tags than the current ones. Maybe Street publicity?
as well as something that captures the “vertical impedance” obstacles that are common in Mexico (like where a driveway is built on higher ground to the sidewalk and this creates a vertical “lip” almost like a curb).
This is suggested with the name "Garage access ramp" in the obstacle section. Since this is not a surface problem but something that is obstructing the path.
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago I recommend discussing tags during our next meeting with Gari. Let's create a Google Sheet consisting of existing tags and those recommended by Gari and his team and then we can work through them and finalize a list.
Gari, recall that I'm busy until after Sept 17th. So, let's setup a meeting for after that.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 3:31 AM Gari01234 notifications@github.com wrote:
I think we should still keep parked car on sidewalk. This is a big problem in Mexico, from what I’ve observed.
You are right, this is something very common in Mexico. However, I prioritized fixed obstacles (those that have to do with the sidewalk infrastructure) over movable ones such as: parked car, parked bicycle. I prioritized these obstacles because they are the ones that require a change in infrastructure and not in people's behavior. Note: street commerce is also a "movable obstacle ", but it is in the same place every day, that is why I am prioritizing it.
Also, grass on sidewalks is coming and can be problematic to rollability.
Yes you are right. Maybe this one should stay in "surface problems". But we would have to remove one tag, or have seven tags instead of six.
Similarly, it’s nice if brick is marked since it’s a known bumpy surface.
for the "brick" tag, I only suggest changing the name to "irregular texture" since there are sidewalks with other types of textures that are also problematic to rollability.
I wonder if we need something like “stair”...
Yes, I also think it would be good to add the tag "stairs". But we would have to remove one from the obstacles section, so that we don't have more tags than the current ones.
as well as something that captures the “vertical impedance” obstacles that are common in Mexico (like where a driveway is built on higher ground to the sidewalk and this creates a vertical “lip” almost like a curb).
This is suggested with the name "Garage access ramp" in the obstacle section. Since this is not a surface problem but something that is obstructing the path.
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jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago In preparation for our meeting, I made a Google Sheet for us to brainstorm and discuss:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19IAtCwQiK9ghTVkF8agEvV_5SOh6ezcYkEAG4kEtBSE/edit#gid=0
misaugstad
commented
4 years ago I'm going to start with a couple followup questions that will finalize the list.
For @gari01234 we are going to remove the construction site tag from Mexican cities, but we still want a more accurate Spanish translation for US cities. How do you think we would best translate construction site? sitio de construcción? emplazamiento de la obra? Here are a couple examples of what I'm talking about:
And then these questions are for both @gari01234 and @jonfroehlich
And now here are the results from our meeting today. You can see them in the spreadsheet, but it is probably useful for me to summarize the changes here. For anything that I asked questions about above, I added question mark to the text; I'll edit this comment as we finalize things. @shokiami feel free to use the checklist below by checking the boxes as you implement if you find that useful.
Curb ramp:
Missing curb ramp:
Obstacle:
Surface problem:
No sidewalk:
gari01234
commented
4 years ago For @gari01234 we are going to remove the construction site tag from Mexican cities, but we still want a more accurate Spanish translation for US cities. How do you think we would best translate construction site? sitio de construcción? emplazamiento de la obra?
construction site = obra en construcción
And then these questions are for both @gari01234 and @jonfroehlich
- Looking for a good English translation of "comercio ambulante". What I've got right now is "street vendor", how does that sound?
street vendor sounds good to me.
- Looking for a good English translation of "rota". What I've got right now is "very broken", how does that sound?
damaged sidewalk ?
- Looking for a good English translation of "plataforma única". What I've got right now is "pedestrian/vehicle shared space", how does that sound? Anything shorter anyone can think of that's still clear?
a) shared space street ? b) shared street ?
misaugstad
commented
4 years ago Just talked to Jon. We are going with "street vendor", "very broken", and "pedestrian/car shared space". And I've updated the above checklist, so this should all be good to go @shokiami !
jonfroehlich
commented
4 years ago How about "shared pedestrian/car space" :)
On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 2:51 PM Mikey Saugstad notifications@github.com wrote:
Just talked to Jon. We are going with "street vendor", "very broken", and "pedestrian/car shared space". And I've updated the above checklist, so this should all be good to go @shokiami https://github.com/shokiami !
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-- Jon E. Froehlich https://jonfroehlich.github.io/ Associate Professor Paul G. Allen School of Computer Science & Engineering University of Washington http://makeabilitylab.io @jonfroehlich https://twitter.com/jonfroehlich - Twitter Help make sidewalks more accessible: http://projectsidewalk.io
misaugstad
commented
4 years ago yes, better
shokiami
commented
4 years ago @misaugstad @jonfroehlich @gari01234 Thank you so much guys! I will begin working on this PR now.
shokiami
commented
4 years ago @misaugstad @jonfroehlich @gari01234 PR posted!
Should we consider adding new tags or other things for Mexico City? I was walking through the polygon area (from KML) and saw things that would be less common in US cities (e.g., fruit stands that take over sidewalk).
Something to think about...