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Pwdr / Pwdr-Model-0.1

A powder substrate rapid prototyping machine
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Printhead & Steppers #12

Open Kirais opened 11 years ago

Kirais commented 11 years ago

Hi Alex,

  1. Any specific reason for choosing HP C6602A printhead? Do you know the effect of capacity, resolution, nozzle count, drop volume? I found some other printheads having better specs. Here is the list:

Model C6602A 29 94 92 10 Capacity(ml) 18 40 11 5 Resolution(dpi) 96
Nozzle count 12 48 416 416 304 drop volume(pl) 160 87 15 14

I have an intuition that the more nozzle the faster and higher resolution. Is it correct? I am not very sure about the drop volume.

  1. I just noticed that the speed of Pwdr printhead is much slower than those in ZPrinters. I have been working with a ZPrinter 310 Plus for a semester. It prints very fast, much faster than Pwdr. And it uses HP 10 printhead(with 304 nozzles and 35pl drop volume) I am not very familiar with steppers. Is it possible to increase its speed without adding too much cost? Thanks.
Pwdr commented 11 years ago
  1. The HP head is the only head with a known control mechanism. 12nkzzles in 96dpi is quite low (resolution could be doubled by making an intermediate step). The drop volume isn't important. For example, gypsum needs about 12 drops per spot to bind. And depositing drops is one of the most time consuming operations.
  2. Correct. Mainly due the total nozzle witdth, but the movements along the y axis is quite slow too. You could increase the micro stepping mode from 16 to 2 or even zero. Furthermore, the arduino is slow, but I don't know whether it has any influence on the stepper speeds...

On Sunday, January 13, 2013, Kirais wrote:

Hi Alex,

  1. Any specific reason for choosing HP C6602A printhead? Do you know the effect of capacity, resolution, nozzle count, drop volume? I found some other printheads having better specs. Here is the list:

Model C6602A 29 94 92 10 Capacity(ml) 18 40 11 5 Resolution(dpi) 96

Nozzle count 12 48 416 416 304 drop volume(pl) 160 87 15 14

I have an intuition that the more nozzle the faster and higher resolution. Is it correct? I am not very sure about the drop volume.

  1. I just noticed that the speed of Pwdr printhead is much slower than those in ZPrinters. I have been working with a ZPrinter 310 Plus for a semester. It prints very fast, much faster than Pwdr. And it uses HP 10 printhead(with 304 nozzles and 35pl drop volume) I am not very familiar with steppers. Is it possible to increase its speed without adding too much cost? Thanks.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12.

digitalw00t commented 11 years ago

I've used the arduino for my Prusa, and it can print just about as fast as you want. It has other problems mind you like communication disconnects from time to time, but it should handle anything the PWDR wants to throw at it. On the other side, the RAMP stepper driver can handle 1/1 6 steps, which should give pretty high resolution for movement. Perhaps integrating the ramps into the pwdr design would be increase the resolution.

I'm assembling the parts for a PWDR now, so my input on the design is basically theory at this point. I hope to be of more help in the near future.

./Andrew

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 3:22 AM, Pwdr notifications@github.com wrote:

  1. The HP head is the only head with a known control mechanism. 12nkzzles in 96dpi is quite low (resolution could be doubled by making an intermediate step). The drop volume isn't important. For example, gypsum needs about 12 drops per spot to bind. And depositing drops is one of the most time consuming operations.
  2. Correct. Mainly due the total nozzle witdth, but the movements along the y axis is quite slow too. You could increase the micro stepping mode from 16 to 2 or even zero. Furthermore, the arduino is slow, but I don't know whether it has any influence on the stepper speeds...

On Sunday, January 13, 2013, Kirais wrote:

Hi Alex,

  1. Any specific reason for choosing HP C6602A printhead? Do you know the effect of capacity, resolution, nozzle count, drop volume? I found some other printheads having better specs. Here is the list:

Model C6602A 29 94 92 10 Capacity(ml) 18 40 11 5 Resolution(dpi) 96

Nozzle count 12 48 416 416 304 drop volume(pl) 160 87 15 14

I have an intuition that the more nozzle the faster and higher resolution. Is it correct? I am not very sure about the drop volume.

  1. I just noticed that the speed of Pwdr printhead is much slower than those in ZPrinters. I have been working with a ZPrinter 310 Plus for a semester. It prints very fast, much faster than Pwdr. And it uses HP 10 printhead(with 304 nozzles and 35pl drop volume) I am not very familiar with steppers. Is it possible to increase its speed without adding too much cost? Thanks.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub< https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12>.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12191416.

./Andrew

digitalgods commented 11 years ago

If anyone wants to build their own controller, look up Gen7 controller on reprap site. You will still have to plug in the stepper drivers from Plaulouou.

Andrew Falgout notifications@github.com wrote:

I've used the arduino for my Prusa, and it can print just about as fast as you want. It has other problems mind you like communication disconnects from time to time, but it should handle anything the PWDR wants to throw at it. On the other side, the RAMP stepper driver can handle 1/1 6 steps, which should give pretty high resolution for movement. Perhaps integrating the ramps into the pwdr design would be increase the resolution.

I'm assembling the parts for a PWDR now, so my input on the design is basically theory at this point. I hope to be of more help in the near future.

./Andrew

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 3:22 AM, Pwdr notifications@github.com wrote:

  1. The HP head is the only head with a known control mechanism. 12nkzzles in 96dpi is quite low (resolution could be doubled by making an intermediate step). The drop volume isn't important. For example, gypsum needs about 12 drops per spot to bind. And depositing drops is one of the most time consuming operations.
  2. Correct. Mainly due the total nozzle witdth, but the movements along the y axis is quite slow too. You could increase the micro stepping mode from 16 to 2 or even zero. Furthermore, the arduino is slow, but I don't know whether it has any influence on the stepper speeds...

On Sunday, January 13, 2013, Kirais wrote:

Hi Alex,

  1. Any specific reason for choosing HP C6602A printhead? Do you know the effect of capacity, resolution, nozzle count, drop volume? I found some other printheads having better specs. Here is the list:

Model C6602A 29 94 92 10 Capacity(ml) 18 40 11 5 Resolution(dpi) 96

Nozzle count 12 48 416 416 304 drop volume(pl) 160 87 15 14

I have an intuition that the more nozzle the faster and higher resolution. Is it correct? I am not very sure about the drop volume.

  1. I just noticed that the speed of Pwdr printhead is much slower than those in ZPrinters. I have been working with a ZPrinter 310 Plus for a semester. It prints very fast, much faster than Pwdr. And it uses HP 10 printhead(with 304 nozzles and 35pl drop volume) I am not very familiar with steppers. Is it possible to increase its speed without adding too much cost? Thanks.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub< https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12>.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12191416.

./Andrew

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12197426

Kirais commented 11 years ago

That means the x axis is slow because of the limited number of nozzles at the printhead. Y axis can be faster if we change some parameters in the programs/firmware. I am still not sure the effect of drop volume. The bigger the better or no significant effect? Thanks

digitalw00t commented 11 years ago

I would imagine too little binder, you would have the current layer bound together, which would give you many individual layers instead of one object. Too much and at worst your layers migt dissolve again and might add more powder than is intended to the object. It has to be JUST right. Just enough to do the job, no more no less.

./Andrew

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Kirais notifications@github.com wrote:

That means the x axis is slow because of the limited number of nozzles at the printhead. Y axis can be faster if we change some parameters in the programs/firmware. I am still not sure the effect of drop volume. The bigger the better or no significant effect? Thanks

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12230522.

./Andrew

Pwdr commented 11 years ago

Yeah, but the best way to adjust the amount of binder is by adjusting the number of drops per spot. And then there is a trade off, between single drop diameter (volume) and resolution

On Monday, January 14, 2013, Andrew Falgout wrote:

I would imagine too little binder, you would have the current layer bound together, which would give you many individual layers instead of one object. Too much and at worst your layers migt dissolve again and might add more powder than is intended to the object. It has to be JUST right. Just enough to do the job, no more no less.

./Andrew

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Kirais <notifications@github.com<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'notifications@github.com');>> wrote:

That means the x axis is slow because of the limited number of nozzles at the printhead. Y axis can be faster if we change some parameters in the programs/firmware. I am still not sure the effect of drop volume. The bigger the better or no significant effect? Thanks

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub< https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12230522>.

./Andrew

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12231177.

Kirais commented 11 years ago

So the amount of binder(In ZPrinter software, it is called saturation level) at a spot = single drop volume x number of drops, right? Single drop volume cannot be changed once the printhead is fixed and the number of drops per spot can be adjusted by program. Am I right? Bigger drop volume = slow printing(because of more drops needed) = lower resolution(bigger diameter)?

Pwdr commented 11 years ago

Wel yeah, more or less. The parameter in the ZPrinter is somewhat hocuspocus, it doesn't express a physical parameter, but that is basically what it does. All inkjet heads are designed for paper, were you of course need far less ink.

Bigger drops -> quicker printer -> lower resolution Smaller drops -> slower printer (more drops needed) -> higher resolution

On Monday, January 14, 2013, Kirais wrote:

So the amount of binder(In ZPrinter software, it is called saturation level) at a spot = single drop volume x number of drops, right? Single drop volume cannot be changed once the printhead is fixed and the number of drops per spot can be adjusted by program. Am I right? Bigger drop volume = slow printing(because of more drops needed) = lower resolution(bigger diameter)?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/12#issuecomment-12232277.

prasanpro commented 8 years ago

C6602R/G/B stands for Red, Green, Blue respectively. What does A stands for in C6602A?

Pwdr commented 8 years ago

The C6602A contains black ink

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 2:28 PM, pdpro notifications@github.com wrote:

C6602R/G/B stands for Red, Green, Blue respectively. What does A stands for in C6602A?

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prasanpro commented 8 years ago

But what does 'A' stand for?

metanoic commented 5 years ago

It probably stands for "Alpha" as in the transparency channel of RGBA.

digitalw00t commented 5 years ago

Anyone have one running, or tried to build one lately?

./Andrew Falgout KG5GRX

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On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 7:06 AM metanoic notifications@github.com wrote:

It probably stands for "Alpha" as in the transparency channel of RGBA.

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tomilla80 commented 5 years ago

Tried to Build one 3 years ago. Never got it to Print. Printhead problems. Anyone need Parts? i am Selling acrylic and rods. Mainland Europe only.

tomilla80

Pwdr commented 5 years ago

It’s a pity to hear that you never got it to work tomilla80. What kind of printhead problem do you have? Sourcing or technical issues?

On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 at 17:37, tomilla80 notifications@github.com wrote:

Tried to Build one 3 years ago. Never got it to Print. Printhead problems. Anyone need Parts? i am Selling acrylic and rods. Mainland Europe only.

tomilla80

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tomilla80 commented 5 years ago

Sourcing problems. Technicaly it worked fine. It was a good project for learning, but at some point i lost interest and it was too time consuming. Funnily enough I have just last week dismantled the housing.

MatthiasWM commented 5 years ago

I built one in 2013. Here are my notes (they are not in order because they moved between web sites). I did get a hand full of printouts, but they were extremely brittle, and I was eventually running out of time for additional chemistry experiments.

Note that I modified the case a bit and built my own electronics and software from scratch. Either way, a great project.

Also note: there are attempts to get five different much more powerful printheads running. Two work, two we don't know, and one was abandoned.

http://ytec3d.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

Matthias