Recommendations for backup parts?

[gdsmithIRL]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the great work you have done so far on this exciting project. We are hoping to build one of these in the coming months, to supplement our ageing Z-Corp printer. As we are based in New Zealand, we expect it will take some time to receive many of the parts, and therefore would like to order backups for any parts that might be especially prone to failure. I realise the design is very new, but any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I'm assuming that the print head would be a potential weak point, based on the number of cartridges we have burnt through on our Z-406.

Cheers, Geoff

[Kirais]

Hi Geoff,

   Did you use liquid binder or pure water? From my experience, using binder on powder bed and alcohol water mixture 'ink'(The alcohol helps to reduce the surface energy) will increase the print head lifetime. That's possibly due to the fact that nozzles are small and hence better to print liquid of low viscosity or surface energy to prevent them from getting stuck. 

Regards, Kirais

On 15 Jan, 2013, at 8:48 AM, gdsmithIRL notifications@github.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the great work you have done so far on this exciting project. We are hoping to build one of these in the coming months, to supplement our ageing Z-Corp printer. As we are based in New Zealand, we expect it will take some time to receive many of the parts, and therefore would like to order backups for any parts that might be especially prone to failure. I realise the design is very new, but any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I'm assuming that the print head would be a potential weak point, based on the number of cartridges we have burnt through on our Z-406.

Cheers, Geoff

\ Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[gdsmithIRL]

Hi Kirais,

Thanks for your reply. For the Z-406 we have used a mixture of isopropanol and water, and kept the binder in the powder bed. The surface tension of our ink should therefore be well matched to the printheads, which I agree is very important. We tend to have periods of good printer performance before something malfunctions - for example the binder supply pressure one a single line can vary dramatically, causing that head to overheat.

Regards, Geoff

[Pwdr]

The cartridge is the weakest point of the machine. But replacing it with a Xaar head would make part of the project closed source. And as these HP heads are pretty cheap ($15), you can have a few backed up.

When there is some printing expert here, he could design more advanced electronics that could monitor the head.

Alex

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 03:21 , gdsmithIRL wrote:

Hi Kirais, Thanks for your reply. For the Z-406 we have used a mixture of isopropanol and water, and kept the binder in the powder bed. The surface tension of our ink should therefore be well matched to the printheads, which I agree is very important. We tend to have periods of good printer performance before something malfunctions - for example the binder supply pressure one a single line can vary dramatically, causing that head to overheat. Regards, Geoff

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12250585).

[digitalw00t]

What do you mean by "part of the project closed source"?

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Pwdr notifications@github.com wrote:

The cartridge is the weakest point of the machine. But replacing it with a Xaar head would make part of the project closed source. And as these HP heads are pretty cheap ($15), you can have a few backed up.

When there is some printing expert here, he could design more advanced electronics that could monitor the head.

Alex

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 03:21 , gdsmithIRL wrote:

Hi Kirais, Thanks for your reply. For the Z-406 we have used a mixture of isopropanol and water, and kept the binder in the powder bed. The surface tension of our ink should therefore be well matched to the printheads, which I agree is very important. We tend to have periods of good printer performance before something malfunctions - for example the binder supply pressure one a single line can vary dramatically, causing that head to overheat. Regards, Geoff

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub ( https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12250585).

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12256893.

./Andrew

[Pwdr]

The driver for a Xaar inkjet head is proprietary, so the source code may not be released under a open source license. There are no inkjet heads with known control protocol. It can be reverse engineered, but that's quite a hassle.

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 15:49 , Andrew Falgout wrote:

What do you mean by "part of the project closed source"?

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Pwdr <notifications@github.com (mailto:notifications@github.com)> wrote:

The cartridge is the weakest point of the machine. But replacing it with a
Xaar head would make part of the project closed source. And as these HP
heads are pretty cheap ($15), you can have a few backed up.

When there is some printing expert here, he could design more advanced
electronics that could monitor the head.

Alex

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 03:21 , gdsmithIRL wrote:

Hi Kirais,
Thanks for your reply. For the Z-406 we have used a mixture of
isopropanol and water, and kept the binder in the powder bed. The surface
tension of our ink should therefore be well matched to the printheads,
which I agree is very important. We tend to have periods of good printer
performance before something malfunctions - for example the binder supply
pressure one a single line can vary dramatically, causing that head to
overheat.
Regards,
Geoff

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (
https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12250585).

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12256893.

./Andrew

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12270313).

[digitalw00t]

I would think going with a closed source head would be a project killer for an open source printer.

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Pwdr notifications@github.com wrote:

The driver for a Xaar inkjet head is proprietary, so the source code may not be released under a open source license. There are no inkjet heads with known control protocol. It can be reverse engineered, but that's quite a hassle.

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 15:49 , Andrew Falgout wrote:

What do you mean by "part of the project closed source"?

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Pwdr <notifications@github.com (mailto: notifications@github.com)> wrote:

The cartridge is the weakest point of the machine. But replacing it with a Xaar head would make part of the project closed source. And as these HP heads are pretty cheap ($15), you can have a few backed up.

When there is some printing expert here, he could design more advanced electronics that could monitor the head.

Alex

On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 03:21 , gdsmithIRL wrote:

Hi Kirais, Thanks for your reply. For the Z-406 we have used a mixture of isopropanol and water, and kept the binder in the powder bed. The surface tension of our ink should therefore be well matched to the printheads, which I agree is very important. We tend to have periods of good printer performance before something malfunctions - for example the binder supply pressure one a single line can vary dramatically, causing that head to overheat. Regards, Geoff

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub ( https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12250585).

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub< https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12256893>.

./Andrew

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub ( https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12270313).

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12270692.

./Andrew

[gdsmithIRL]

Thanks Alex, using the C6602A cartridge certainly makes sense. The parts that are most likely to have a slow turnaround here are the Q2347A Cartridge assembly and the parts from SDP/SI, so if no one has experienced issues with these parts so far we may not worry about ordering spares.

Cheers, Geoff

[Boreaz]

Hi Geoff,

I have experienced issues with these parts. Maybe I misunderstood something, but when I assembled it, the belts listed in the current edition "Bill of materials" was not enough. Timing belt A 6R51M065060 was useless for me, timing belt A 6R51M280060 not enough few teeth to attach X-carriage. In the previous edition of "Bill of materials" was two timing belts A 6R51MB09060, so I use them to cut two XY-carriage belts and one X-carriage belt. Besides, I did not understand which timing pulley I need install to roller. For timing pulley A 6A51M015DF0604 not fit no one timing belt from list. So I order A 6A51M018DF0606 timing pulley I've seen in solidworks files, I think A 6R51M084060 timing belt must fit to it, until It be delivered I cut and glue suitable belt, but if install the wrong pulley it will change speed of the roller. So I think you need ask Alex to specify this moments. Now I only waiting when Q2347A Cartridge assembly is delivered. And then I try to let it work.

Michael

[Pwdr]

I did update the bill of materials after some feedback from another builder. Please let me know what the best belts are. Note that you'll always have to cut the X and Y belts, they're not meant to fit otherwise. The roller belt depends on your machine.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 09:26 , Boreaz wrote:

Hi Geoff, I have experienced issues with these parts. Maybe I misunderstood something, but when I assembled it, the belts listed in the current edition "Bill of materials" was not enough. Timing belt A 6R51M065060 was useless for me, timing belt A 6R51M280060 not enough few teeth to attach X-carriage. In the previous edition of "Bill of materials" was two timing belts A 6R51MB09060, so I use them to cut two XY-carriage belts and one X-carriage belt. Besides, I did not understand which timing pulley I need install to roller. For timing pulley A 6A51M015DF0604 not fit no one timing belt from list. So I order A 6A51M018DF0606 timing pulley I've seen in solidworks files, I think A 6R51M084060 timing belt must fit to it, until It be delivered I cut and glue suitable belt, but if install the wrong pulley it will change speed of the roller. So I think you need ask Alex to specify this moments. Now I only waiting when Q2347A Cartridge assembly is delivered. And then I try to let it work.
Michael

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12308837).

[Boreaz]

I removed belt from X-carriage and compared the belts, my belt is longer by 10 teeth (2cm) then A 6R51M280060 in bill of materials - it even does not reach clamps, so I think timing belt A 6R51M290060 would better choice. In bill of materials still listed only 3 belts, in list missing two Y-carriage belts, which I cut from belt A 6R51MB09060. Additionally, lasercut drawings still have some bugs: screw holes do not match with Y-stepper, bug in the plate which carries X-stepper - screw holes do not match, and the more significantly - bronze bearing hole does not match with hole in opposite plate.

[Pwdr]

Mmm, OK, I'll check that.

Holes for the Y-stepper have been updated, but not correctly. Could you pull an updated version?

I'll add the 6R51M290060 in the BOM, as a replacement for the X80060.

Which screw holes don't match? Can you sent a picture maybe? And please a photo of the misaligned bearing too. Sounds as pretty bad news, but none of the other builder have mentioned it.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 at 11:33 , Boreaz wrote:

I removed belt from X-carriage and compared the belts, my belt is longer by 10 teeth (2cm) then A 6R51M280060 in bill of materials - it even does not reach clamps, so I think timing belt A 6R51M290060 would better choice. In bill of materials still listed only 3 belts, in list missing two Y-carriage belts, which I cut from belt A 6R51MB09060.
Additionally, lasercut drawings still have some bugs: screw holes do not match with Y-stepper, bug in the plate which carries X-stepper - screw holes do not match, and the more significantly - bronze bearing hole does not match with hole in opposite plate.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12312648).

[Boreaz]

I used last updated version of repository - Pwdr-Model-0.1-master. I fix the bugs with a drill and barbaric methods, all details already assembled and looks good, so all I can do is just a schematic image red lines show the correct holes. You can open the file with 5mm lasercut drawings, and attach a ruler to the detail, and bug becomes visible.

[Pwdr]

Thanks a lot. A had it updated way back ago, but somehow this error slipped back in. The new version of the 5mm Acrylic plate is committed.

Alex

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 14:25 , Michael wrote:

I used last updated version of repository - Pwdr-Model-0.1-master. I fix the bugs with drill and barbaric methods, all details already assembled and looking good, so all I can do is just a schematic image

red lines show the correct holes. You can open the file with 5mm lasercut drawings, and attach a ruler to the detail, and bug becomes visible.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12367639).

[Boreaz]

Ok, much better, but now the sleeve bearing hole diameter was reduced, in comparison with other parts.

[gdsmithIRL]

Thank you for sharing your concerns Boreaz. Are you aware if any of these issues are present in the Solidworks model? Our workshop preferred working with this rather than the SVG files.

Cheers, Geoff

[Boreaz]

I looked at the same parts in the Solidworks files, and I have not found the listed bugs.

---

От: gdsmithIRL notifications@github.com Кому: Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1 Pwdr-Model-0.1@noreply.github.com Копия: Michael boreaz73@yahoo.com Отправлено: пятница, 18 января 2013 1:41 Тема: Re: [Pwdr-Model-0.1] Recommendations for backup parts? (#13)

Thank you for sharing your concerns Boreaz. Are you aware if any of these issues are present in the Solidworks model? Our workshop preferred working with this rather than the SVG files. Cheers, Geoff — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[Pwdr]

Fixed that.

On Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 16:08 , Michael wrote:

Ok, much better, but now the sleeve bearing hole diameter was reduced, in comparison with other parts.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub (https://github.com/Pwdr/Pwdr-Model-0.1/issues/13#issuecomment-12371620).