PygmalionOfCyprus / cmo-db-requests

Public issue/request tracking for the Command: Modern Operations database
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Tweak for IRBIS-E radar, increase max range to 170-180nm for high-powered cued search? #1268

Closed ghost closed 2 years ago

ghost commented 2 years ago

DB Selector

DB3K

Affected DBID(s)

2689, 4232, 4741, 4958, 4547

Summary of Changes

The SU-35S main FCR radar (Slot Back Irbis-E) range for volume search (lower power 2-5kW, 120 degree mode) is 160nm. But in cued search mode, it has a detection range of up to 350km-400km (188-216 nautical miles) for 3m² according to NIIP. Cued search is a second operating mode of the radar (high power mode around 20kW with a narrower field of view). Radar can operate on both modes. Perhaps the irbis-E FCR max range should be increased from 160nm to 180nm? It's got me wondering seeing these ads and brochures from the radar manufacturer. Not sure which number is the most accurate for max range.

NIIP catalog IRBIS-E

In this picture taken from the export advertisement, it shows what appears to be the standard volume search range up to 300km for 3m² (120 degree scan) IRBIS-E volume search

Here it shows cued search range (acquisition range) for a 3m² at 400km (narrower field of view) IRBIS-E cued search

According to AurAirpower, "The biggest change is in the EGSP-27 transmitter, where the single 7 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok TWT is replaced with a pair of 10 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok tubes, ganged to provide a total peak power rating of 20 kiloWatts. The radar is cited at an average power rating of 5 kiloWatts, with 2 kiloWatts CW rating for illumination. NIIP claim twice the bandwidth and improved frequency agility over the BARS, and better ECCM capability." Which explains the very long range of 350-400km for a 3m2 target in cued search.

Is there a way for the player to toggle Irbis-E radar mode from standard volume search to cued search? Or maybe a way for the AI to automatically toggle on or off the extra long range mode? It seems unrealistic or exaggerated that the PESA irbis would have a 400km standard operating range against 3m² target, because that would imply it has a greater range resolution than the more advanced AN/APG-77v1, which of course is not accurate. I think it would be somewhat fair to at least increase the max IRIB-E range from 160 to 170nm or maybe 180nm maximum, because it seems programming a dual mode radar function may be out of the picture and too intricate for now. Especially since many other radars could operate on higher/lower power modes, that would complicate the game mechanics to say the least.

According to Ausairpower (http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html), NIIP does not even claim their radar outperforms the AN/APG-77 of the F-22, even though their max ranges of 350-400km for a 3m2 target are published. This means they are a select operating mode of the radar at very high power and not a standard radar operating mode. Which is why 188-220nm max range for the Irbis-E is way too high. "Curiously, NIIP do not claim superiority over the F-22A's APG-77 AESA, yet their cited performance figures exceed the public (and no doubt heavily sanitised) range figures for the APG-77."

Sources

IRBIS-E IRBIS-E cued search IRBIS-E volume search http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Flanker-Radars.html

PygmalionOfCyprus commented 2 years ago

First of all, I just want to note that I've adjusted several values on the Irbis for 495 based on the AusAirPower data and manufacturer info (where not contradicted by better sources). I've also given it an extremely limited land/surface search capability as per manufacturer claims.

The matter of adjusting to account for "special" modes is a tricky one. As you say, implementing multi-mode radars, etc. is a bit out of scope at the moment, though it's something we're beginning to consider. (Don't take that as anything more than a vague handwave -- I really do mean "beginning".)

In lieu of that functionality, I think it's best to assume "normal" operation, which in this case would be ~160nm (as per AusAirPower, etc.). That's also why, in adding land/surface search capability, I've limited the radar to search/track of a single ground target: since we don't yet have a way to "switch modes" and air/surface search are currently simultaneous, it's best IMO we default to behavior reflecting that rather than using the dedicated surface search number of four.

That said, this is something we can definitely revisit if/when we implement sensor mode switching. This is actually giving me a couple of ideas...