2K12M1 Kub-M1 - The alright SA-6

[FrangibleCover]

DB Selector

Both

DBID to Copy

Facility 437 (CWDB), Facility 132 (DB3k)

Hypothetical

No

Name

SAM Bty (SA-6a Gainful) [2K12M1 Kub-M1])

Country

Soviet Union

Service

Army

In Commission

1973

Number in Service

No response

Sensors

as copy

Mounts

New 2P25M1 TELs, equipped with #4313 missiles. New 1S19M1 Straight Flush radar vehicle, changes allow better capability against low flying targets (included in missile stats) and faster switch-off to defeat first gen ARMs. Probably nothing Command relevant.

Loadout Options

No response

Other Changes

As with Kub-M3, not really sure about foreign operators except for the Czechoslovaks having it. The Kvadrat system seems to be a downgraded model most similar to base 2K12.

Sources

Janes https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/2K12_Kub_(SA-6_Gainful)_Russian_Surface-to-Air_Missile_System

[PavelNovak79]

It should not be hypothetical.

I have small note if the designation used could be just 2K12M Kub-M instead of 2K12M1 Kub-M1. The 2K12M was major upgrade in comparison to basic 2K12 while 2K12M1 was apparently just minor in comparison to 2K12M.

My current understanding of 2K12 variants is this:

2K12 Kub with 3M9 missiles 2K12E Kvadrat with 3M9 - export to Arab states prior 1973 war

2K12M Kub-M - uses 1S91M1 FCR and 3M9M missiles allowing for engaging lower flying targets 2K1M1 Kub-M1 - mentioned emissions braker to protect against Shrike ARM, also I think that it is not a newly produced variant but modernization of existing 2K12M

2K12M2 Kub-M2 - very enigmatic variant, I think export outside of Warsaw Pact and while sometimes mentioned as also in Czech or Slovak service I have never saw it here in military lists (contrary to 2K12M and 2K12M3 which are here)

2K12M3 Kub-M3 - currently I think that all of them were actually modernization of previous variants to be able to use 3M9M3 missiles

2K12M4 Kub-M4 - SA-6/SA-11 hybrid

[FrangibleCover]

It should not be hypothetical.

Bloody thing. @PygmalionOfCyprus blz redo the selector to put No above Yes.

I have small note if the designation used could be just 2K12M Kub-M instead of 2K12M1 Kub-M1. The 2K12M was major upgrade in comparison to basic 2K12 while 2K12M1 was apparently just minor in comparison to 2K12M.

My current understanding of 2K12 variants is this:

2K12 Kub with 3M9 missiles 2K12E Kvadrat with 3M9 - export to Arab states prior 1973 war

2K12M Kub-M - uses 1S91M1 FCR and 3M9M missiles allowing for engaging lower flying targets 2K1M1 Kub-M1 - mentioned emissions braker to protect against Shrike ARM, also I think that it is not a newly produced variant but modernization of existing 2K12M

2K12M2 Kub-M2 - very enigmatic variant, I think export outside of Warsaw Pact and while sometimes mentioned as also in Czech or Slovak service I have never saw it here in military lists (contrary to 2K12M and 2K12M3 which are here)

2K12M3 Kub-M3 - currently I think that all of them were actually modernization of previous variants to be able to use 3M9M3 missiles

2K12M4 Kub-M4 - SA-6/SA-11 hybrid

I agree on M3 and M4, I think M2 just wasn't built. A lot of sources say that every export 2K12 was a Kvadrat (with, I suppose, Kvadrat-M1 and Kvadrat-M3 being implicit) but NSWP states all call their systems Kub. I had M down as a minor upgrade (which then becomes the basis for Kvadrat, which would mean that the 1973 uses of the systems were exported base model) and M1 down as the big upgrade including 1S19M1, 3M9M1 missiles and the Shrike breaker. M1 and M are so close together because they were developed in parallel and M model is basically so minor there's no point in representing it.

Whether any of that is true in light of your dissension, I have absolutely no idea. More research needed, I see.

[PavelNovak79]

Dunno about 2K12M2 - I want to comment it because I saw some articles mentioning it as now exported from CZ and SK to Ukraine while in our military documentation I never saw this designation - in comparison to 2K12M and 2K12M3. Similarly Kvadrat name is not used in documentation here - only Kub is used.

Polish military regulation for 2K12M from 1975 clearly states that this thing already has 1S91M1 SURN and can use 3M9 and 3M9M missiles (also has 2P25M1 launchers). Poland was apparently first user of Kub in Warsaw Pact (after Soviets) but I don't know if they had basic 3M9 or not. Czechoslovakia got its first in 1975 - 2K12M with 3M9M missiles.

You can be right regarding parallel development of "M" and "M1". I lack enough information to clarify it. Thing is that while czechoslovak documentation do not mention name 2K12M1 I saw a military presentation where 2K12M1 was mentioned as follow up delivery after 2K12M and that they were modernized in 1980s to 2K12M3. However regarding missiles itself here I can say with high certainty that we had only 3M9M and 3M9M3.

I am still missing lot of puzzle pieces regarding Kub variants so at the end I am open to different views.

[PavelNovak79]

Going further through czech military sources (military regulation lists) I see here these (oldest year of mention for that name used): (plus note: czechoslovak regulation were usually made with some delay after delivery of equipment from the USSR as at first soviet original regulations were used but I don't have list of them)

"KUB" - 1975 (name Kub is used in regulations about whole system tactical use) "2P25M1" - 1976 "2K12M" - 1977 "1S91M1" - 1977 "3M9M" - 1978 (however there are also regulations with name 3M9 only but these are about general informations not relating to detailes specs and are also of later dates) also name "3M9ME" used in 1985 regulation

"1S91M2" - 1979 (this could confirm that mentioned military presentation which spoke about 2K12M1 deliveries following original 2K12M) "2P25M2" - 1980

"3M9M3E" - 1985 "KUB-M3" - 1986 (again this one is about tactical use of whole system)

So this would go in direction of what that Polish 1975 regulation says and that is: 2K12M have 1S91M1 and 2P25M1 and uses 3M9M as standard

Further there is improved version - apparently that 2K12M1 though that name is not used here: thus 2K12M1 have 1S91M2 and 2P25M2 but here still used 3M9M(E)

Finally there is upgrade to be able use latest missiles: 2K12M3 with 3M9M3E here