[Bug report] Huge spell learning point costs in Ambermoon Advanced

[HDembinski]

Describe the bug

I am playing Ambermoon Advanced 1.07 Deutsch. I noticed that learning spells requires huge amounts of spell learning points, which do neither agree with the documented spell learning point tables here in this repository nor with the spell learning points that are reported in-game by the sage in Spannenberg.

To Reproduce My adventurer is level 24 and has 39 spell learning points (SLP). I have three spells "Massenhast", "Magische Laterne", and "Levitation". According to the sage in Spannenberg, learning each of these cost 10 SLP. I can learn "Magische Laterne", which actually costs 20 SLP (found out by saving/loading). I cannot learn any of the other two spells, the game tells me that I do not have enough learning points.

Expected behavior If the spell learning point cost of spells is changed in Ambermoon Advanced and this is not a bug, the correct required amount should be reported by the sage in Spannenberg.

Comment Reducing the amount of spells that the adventurer and ranger can learn so drastically really takes a lot of fun out of Ambermoon Advanced for me.

[Pyrdacor]

Hi thanks for reporting this. Indeed the wrong SLP cost was shown. I will fix this asap.

The SLP was adjusted in Ambermoon Advanced and a few other people also think that the changes were a bit too drastically. The main reason for this decision was to make other classes more valuable.

I think I would stick to the higher SLP cost but increase the SLP per level values for Thalion, Valdyn and Gryban a bit as the higher SLP costs also reflect the spell power. For example spells like "Hast" and "Massenhast" are very powerful but had very low costs before while other weaker spells were much more expensive. I guess adjustments to match spell power with learning costs are still worth it but increasing the learning points on the 3 semi-magic classes might be valuable.

Here is an overview of the adjusted SLP:

Alchemistic Spells:

• Charge Item: 20 -> 60
• Repair Item: 15 -> 45
• Duplicate Item: 25 -> 75
• LP Stealer: 5 -> 25
• SP Stealer: 5 -> 25
• Light: 2 -> 5
• Magical Torch: 5 -> 10
• Magical Lantern: 10 -> 20
• Magical Sun: 15 -> 35
• Ghost Weapon: 5 -> 30
• Create Food: 10 -> 15
• Blink: 5 -> 15
• Jump: 10 -> 50
• Word Of Marking: 20 -> 70
• Word Of Returning: 20 -> 80
• Magic Shield: 10 -> 25
• Magic Wall: 15 -> 35
• Magic Barrier: 20 -> 45
• Magic Weapon: 10 -> 25
• Magic Assault: 15 -> 35
• Magic Attack: 20 -> 45
• Levitation: 10 -> 65
• Anti-Magic Wall: 5 -> 30
• Anti-Magic Sphere: 15 -> 50
• Alch. Globe: 25 -> 120
• Hurry: 5 -> 50
• Mass Hurry: 10 -> 80

Mystic spells:

• Monster Knowledge: 3 -> 15
• Identification: 15 -> 35
• Knowledge: 10 -> 5
• Clairvoyance: 20 -> 15
• Map View: 15 -> 20
• Magical Compass: 2 -> 5
• Find Traps: 10 -> 25
• Find Monsters: 10 -> 25
• Find Persons: 10 -> 25
• Find Secret Doors: 10 -> 25
• Mystical Mapping: 25 -> 70
• Mystical Map I: 10 -> 75
• Mystical Map II: 15 -> 80
• Mystical Map III: 20 -> 85
• Myst. Globe: 25 -> 100
• Show Monster LP: 5 -> 15

Healing spells:

• Healing Hand: 1 -> 5
• Remove Fear: 2 -> 10
• Remove Panic: 5 -> 20
• Remove Shadows: 3 -> 10
• Remove Blindness: 8 -> 20
• Remove Pain: 5 -> 20
• Remove Disease: 10 -> 30
• Small Healing: 5 -> 20
• Remove Poison: 10 -> 30
• Neutralize Poison: 12 -> 45
• Medium Healing: 15 -> 40
• Destroy Undead: 15 -> 25
• Holy Word: 20 -> 50
• Wake The Dead: 15 -> 80
• Change Ashes: 20 -> 50
• Change Dust: 25 -> 50
• Great Healing: 30 -> 75
• Mass Healing: 20 -> 60
• Resurrection: 30 -> 120
• Remove Rigidness: 5 -> 25
• Remove Lamedness: 10 -> 35
• Heal Aging: 12 -> 15
• Stop Aging: 15 -> 20
• Stone To Flesh: 20 -> 55
• Wake Up: 5 -> 10
• Remove Irritation: 5 -> 25
• Remove Drugs: 10 -> 15
• Remove Madness: 15 -> 50
• Restore Stamina: 15 -> 5

[Pyrdacor]

As you see a spell like "Alchemistic Globe" is very expensive but I think it makes sense that an adventurer isn't able to master the most powerful spell easily. In the end it is an Alchemist's spell.

I will finetune this and am dependent on feedback like yours. So thank you for your thoughts on this.

[HDembinski]

I am positive about changing the learning costs of some spells, but changing all the costs so much is a large divergence from the original vision of the game. I enjoy about Ambermoon that it is a high-magic world, where magical items are common and throwing spells around is common. This should not be reduced so much.

I am in favor of generally making the cost increase from Mystical I to II to III +10 each instead of +5, and similar for other effect-over-time spells. It is also fine if the adventurer class cannot realistically learn alchemistic globe or duplicate item or charge item (especially the latter can change gameplay quite a bit, since using artefacts as normal weapons becomes feasible). The costs for jump, levitate, hurry, and mass hurry seem too extreme. Also, I think it is not realistic that a pure mystic magic user can replace Valdyn, so Valdyn should be able to learn a least the most useful spells from that category. Mystic magic is generally too weak to be useful on its own. Alchemists have a least ghost weapon for some offence.

Coming back to my initital point of not changing the game too much. I propose to keep the original costs largely the same, only apply light corrections (e.g. make the most powerful spells a bit more expensive). To reduce the number of spells available to mixed classes, the SLP obtained per level can be reduced compared to pure magic classes.

Btw, I like that monsters got elemental affinities.

[Pyrdacor]

Thanks. I will consider your suggestions in the next major update.

The bug with the wrong SLP at the sage should be fixed in 1.8.3 now.

[Pyrdacor]

As the remaining open points are related to the Advanced game I will move this to the correct repo now.

[macce2]

Regarding Training points generally in the game; In some cases there's maybe a little too high demand(-s) for a character to advance to the next level; I, for example, had Selena training for lock-picking, and she had 56274 EP and was at level 53; "stuck" with L-P 20% / 95 %; and not able to advance level while playing a considerable time. On some parts in the game, you have more locks to open and sometimes a little less, but in my opinion the amount of experience points etc. should be partly re-checked and maybe adjusted for a more realistic gaming experience.

Excusez-moi for not creating a new Issue thread here.

[Pyrdacor]

How can you be level 53 when the max level is 50?

The problem with training points and spell learning points is that you get the same amount per level up. In the beginning it would be good to get some more points to become useful. But that's how the game is.

If the TP/Lvl is increased you will have too many of them late game.

[macce2]

Sorry, Selena was at level 33 actually 🤗