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The Qubes OS Project issue tracker
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HVM import tool #2634

Open jpouellet opened 7 years ago

jpouellet commented 7 years ago

I think it would be greatly beneficial if there were an easy graphical external-disk -> qubes HVM import tool. I'm imagining a button in qubes-manager similar to backup & restore, that would allow you to select a block device (possibly in sys-usb or such) and create an actually-booting HVM from it.

The ability to pop in a new (likely larger) drive and import your old installation in a way that it boots and "just works" greatly lowers the barrier for adopting Qubes because it allows the change of user habits and workflows to happen gradually and at the pace the user is comfortable with (as they can still get their work done in the HVM of their old installation if they need to), instead of forcing the switch to Qubes to be something that must be completed over a weekend or not happen at all.

Based on my experience helping linux-friends become qubes-friends, I think this might perhaps be the single most helpful thing we could do for technically competent prospective users.

"I thought I would be able to just dd of=root.img, but several days later I still have no clue why it won't boot" -- a friend who recently tried to install Qubes (where the problem seems likely to have been due to differences in expectations between his UEFI boot sequence & pvgrub, but ran out of time to debug it)

Things such a tool would ideally support:

Obviously there would be many corner cases, but I think it's worth attempting.

@mfc I'm interested in your thoughts and experience on this as well. Edit: Oops, maybe I meant @micahflee? Same letters, different order. Regardless... I mean people who have experience helping others start using Qubes.

emdete commented 7 years ago

i like the baseline of this issue, this "how do i wrap qubes around my usecases". i doubt the solution mentioned "how do i copy a HVM in" is the desired way to go.

maybe one should create a location where some beginners collect their qubes expiriences? how everyone adapt the system to her needs? from that it could be easier to learn what kind of gui and features are really needed.

andrewdavidwong commented 7 years ago

maybe one should create a location where some beginners collect their qubes expiriences? how everyone adapt the system to her needs? from that it could be easier to learn what kind of gui and features are really needed.

Might be covered by #1906.

emdete commented 7 years ago

Might be covered by #1906.

that one is still other way around: people say what they think which people potentially [sh|c]ould use qubes.

i am interested in the knowledge of people already using qubes. how do you manage daily tasks. how did you migrate to qubes (i use a double boot setup for now to lean how to adapt my flows)? does video editiing actually work (here: no, qubes makes my box too slow for playback without stutter)? where do you put thousands of images and how do you manage the backup of the newly taken pics (there is currently no usable backup solution in qubes as only full backup of VMs is suppported)? can i use qubes for virtualization purposes to test setups beside security concerns (yes! it works incredible fine!)? can i pimp my setup (yes, everyting in qubes is well separated into GUI components, commandline tools, APIs and such that are usable!)?

all the learning of "coming to qubes" from different people could be collected somewhere to be usable by others. how about a github repo with directories for each user that can be filled with READMEs, config snippets and scripts? (ok, someone has to maintain the PRs...)

andrewdavidwong commented 7 years ago

all the learning of "coming to qubes" from different people could be collected somewhere to be usable by others. how about a github repo with directories for each user that can be filled with READMEs, config snippets and scripts? (ok, someone has to maintain the PRs...)

Many messages of this kind are sent to qubes-users, which automatically "collects" them into a searchable archive. I encourage you (or whoever needs it) to try searching for the information you (or they) are looking for.

emdete commented 7 years ago

yes, i looked through that as well. it's a huge collection which is really difficult to consume...

andrewdavidwong commented 7 years ago

yes, i looked through that as well. it's a huge collection which is really difficult to consume...

Ah, so the real problem is not collecting such information (in the sense of possessing it and making it available). Rather, the real problem is one of curation. I'm afraid that we (the Qubes team) can't help here: We're already understaffed as it is. However, it would be great if you could help us with this. :)

emdete commented 7 years ago

:) happy to do so:

https://github.com/emdete/Qubes-adventure-blogs

but somehow people must be able to find it. if this kind of thing is wanted it should be linked in a prominent place somewhere.

p.s.: be aware that my README only contains my personal keywords to remind me what i still have to look at... it's just to fill the structure.

andrewdavidwong commented 7 years ago

:) happy to do so:

https://github.com/emdete/Qubes-adventure-blogs

but somehow people must be able to find it. if this kind of thing is wanted it should be linked in a prominent place somewhere.

p.s.: be aware that my README only contains my personal keywords to remind me what i still have to look at... it's just to fill the structure.

Cool, thanks! So, how about this idea: You post this on qubes-users and try to encourage some uptake. If it catches on and people are finding it useful, we can then add a link to the documentation (and of course you can continue to promote it on qubes-users). What do you think?

emdete commented 7 years ago

You post this on qubes-users and try to encourage some uptake. If it catches on and people are finding it useful, we can then add a link to the documentation (and of course you can continue to promote it on qubes-users). What do you think?

i am a really bad missionary (remember my inter-vm-fs where i did not get one reaction ;) ) but can publish it. will do when my text is more comprehensive.

grey-olli commented 7 years ago

you may also look over messages w/ 'qubes' tag in my livejournal blog.

On Mar 2, 2017 10:14 AM, "M. Dietrich" notifications@github.com wrote:

You post this on qubes-users and try to encourage some uptake. If it catches on and people are finding it useful, we can then add a link to the documentation (and of course you can continue to promote it on qubes-users). What do you think?

i am a really bad missionary (remember my inter-vm-fs where i did not get one reaction ;) ) but can publish it. will do when my text is more comprehensive.

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2634#issuecomment-283575520, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ALHcA3IGOEpjksEPS1D-zbaCEagBpqt2ks5rhmxfgaJpZM4MBA-7 .

jpouellet commented 7 years ago

xref https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2737#issuecomment-294390220:

On the other hand, in Qubes 4.0, you can have management VM having power to create VM, adjust properties etc, so all the format parsing can be sandboxed outside of dom0. Besides feature discussed here, it will allow cool things like implementing VM import from almost arbitrary complex format (OVA/OVF?). Without compromising dom0/other VMs.